Favourite F1 cars 1980 onwards
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
For me, automotive technology is not just about the nuts and bolts (or these days, the software) of the car. For me motoring and aviation machinery has an impact on me in areas beyond just those factors. What a car (or an aeroplane) looks like is also important to me.
Racing cars to me are as much about art as they are about nitty gritty mechanics or even success or failure on track.
You talk like software is a modern thing on an F1 car, when it really isn't. Racing cars to me are as much about art as they are about nitty gritty mechanics or even success or failure on track.
HardtopManual said:
I'll add another reason for the Ferrari 640 over its looks - it was the first semi auto. There's quite an amusing story behind it, too - it was thought unreliable (including by Ferrari engineers) due to its experimental gearbox. But it actually turned out that the problem was a crankshaft with too much flex in it.
And only came about because John Barnard hated designing gear linkages!Beauty is in the eye of the beholder so I'm not going to argue with you.
In my opinion, I think the current cars are ugly monstrosities. They have the beauty of a brick s
thouse and I will never be enamoured of them.
As I said previously, the new proposed regs seem to be leading the designers down a more streamlined and less boxy design route which, hopefully, will tidy up the cars a lot and make them look, to me, less messy and complex.
In my opinion, I think the current cars are ugly monstrosities. They have the beauty of a brick s
thouse and I will never be enamoured of them.As I said previously, the new proposed regs seem to be leading the designers down a more streamlined and less boxy design route which, hopefully, will tidy up the cars a lot and make them look, to me, less messy and complex.
DoubleD said:
Eric Mc said:
For me, automotive technology is not just about the nuts and bolts (or these days, the software) of the car. For me motoring and aviation machinery has an impact on me in areas beyond just those factors. What a car (or an aeroplane) looks like is also important to me.
Racing cars to me are as much about art as they are about nitty gritty mechanics or even success or failure on track.
You talk like software is a modern thing on an F1 car, when it really isn't. Racing cars to me are as much about art as they are about nitty gritty mechanics or even success or failure on track.
In fact, it's main attribute in F1 has been to facilitate cheating.
Eric Mc said:
DoubleD said:
Eric Mc said:
For me, automotive technology is not just about the nuts and bolts (or these days, the software) of the car. For me motoring and aviation machinery has an impact on me in areas beyond just those factors. What a car (or an aeroplane) looks like is also important to me.
Racing cars to me are as much about art as they are about nitty gritty mechanics or even success or failure on track.
You talk like software is a modern thing on an F1 car, when it really isn't. Racing cars to me are as much about art as they are about nitty gritty mechanics or even success or failure on track.
In fact, it's main attribute in F1 has been to facilitate cheating.
HardtopManual said:
What strikes me about this thread ("favourite" F1 cars) is how many people value aesthetics over speed, engineering ingenuity and sporting stories. I'm genuinely quite surprised.
That is the reason I choose the McLaren mp4/4 and Mercedes W11. Aesthetics on cars don't do much for me. Mmm, whilst many people had uncomplimentary things to say about the visual effect of the halo, there doesn't seem to have been nearly as much ire directed at all of the other stuff that's changed the visual aesthetics of a modern F1 car.
As much as I've enjoyed the racing this year, none of the cars stir anything in me. The proliferation of weird aero bits sticking out from the bodywork into the airflow at any point permitted by the regs, the mess of elements that is a front wing these days, the ugly floor that a) robs us of the visual impact of seeing the top-down bodywork outline of the car from above and turns them all into boring oblongs and b) looks like it's about to slice the mechanics legs off at the shins in every pitstop, the various ways in which the "fin"/"sail" concept has been adopted, giving a similarly unappealing effect to the side-on outline as the floor to the top-down one, the snout noses that every manufacturer aside from Mercedes (and by extension Racing Point) have adopted, even the DRS actuators looking like a messy bodge to hold the rear wing in place rather than being an integral part of the design... all of this gives the cars a visual appearance that stirs up only feelings of nausea within me.
As much as I've enjoyed the racing this year, none of the cars stir anything in me. The proliferation of weird aero bits sticking out from the bodywork into the airflow at any point permitted by the regs, the mess of elements that is a front wing these days, the ugly floor that a) robs us of the visual impact of seeing the top-down bodywork outline of the car from above and turns them all into boring oblongs and b) looks like it's about to slice the mechanics legs off at the shins in every pitstop, the various ways in which the "fin"/"sail" concept has been adopted, giving a similarly unappealing effect to the side-on outline as the floor to the top-down one, the snout noses that every manufacturer aside from Mercedes (and by extension Racing Point) have adopted, even the DRS actuators looking like a messy bodge to hold the rear wing in place rather than being an integral part of the design... all of this gives the cars a visual appearance that stirs up only feelings of nausea within me.
DoubleD said:
Well fortunately F1 isn't stuck in the past like some of its "fans"
As I said, I'm looking forward to the next generation because they genuinely look better. It's nothing to do with being "stuck in the past" which I take as a barbed insult aimed at me. It's to do with what I find aesthetically pleasing, which is nothing to do with age or time.Am I an old stick on the mud because I favour a work of art by Titian over Tracey Emins?
Why do people have to try and insult those who hold different views?
It's incredibly stupid.
Eric Mc said:
DoubleD said:
Well fortunately F1 isn't stuck in the past like some of its "fans"
As I said, I'm looking forward to the next generation because they genuinely look better. It's nothing to do with being "stuck in the past" which I take as a barbed insult aimed at me. It's to do with what I find aesthetically pleasing, which is nothing to do with age or time.Am I an old stick on the mud because I favour a work of art by Titian over Tracey Emins?
Why do people have to try and insult those who hold different views?
It's incredibly stupid.
Your final 2 lines above have given me a good chuckle as well, people who insult others are incredibly stupid?
Glad I made you laugh.
But do not accuse of me being stuck in the past. I like all sorts of things - old and new. I just don't happen to care about much of current F1 but as you say, F1 evolves and may well become more pleasing to me later.
In the meantime I reserve the right to dislike current cars. There's lots about modern technology I like a lot.
But do not accuse of me being stuck in the past. I like all sorts of things - old and new. I just don't happen to care about much of current F1 but as you say, F1 evolves and may well become more pleasing to me later.
In the meantime I reserve the right to dislike current cars. There's lots about modern technology I like a lot.
it really is this basic.
Older f1 required far more driver input, be it mechanical sympathy, tyre management, engine management, fuel management, keeping it on the island.
Most of this is now done by both parties, team and driver, that skill has totally disappeared. Progress yes, but not necessarily for the fan.
Frankly, saying a modern f1 car is harder to drive now than say a McLaren Honda round Mexico in 89 or a Benetton BMW on a qualifying lap at Monaco is tantamount to disrespect to any driver from that era!! As ask any of them who have driven both and they will tell you!
It doesn't make modern guys achievements any less or more, as the skill set has moved away from just driving the car.
Older f1 required far more driver input, be it mechanical sympathy, tyre management, engine management, fuel management, keeping it on the island.
Most of this is now done by both parties, team and driver, that skill has totally disappeared. Progress yes, but not necessarily for the fan.
Frankly, saying a modern f1 car is harder to drive now than say a McLaren Honda round Mexico in 89 or a Benetton BMW on a qualifying lap at Monaco is tantamount to disrespect to any driver from that era!! As ask any of them who have driven both and they will tell you!
It doesn't make modern guys achievements any less or more, as the skill set has moved away from just driving the car.
Edited by LukeBrown66 on Sunday 27th December 16:44
LukeBrown66 said:
it really is this basic.
Older f1 required far more driver input, be it mechanical sympathy, tyre management, engine management, fuel management, keeping it on the island.
Most of this is now done by both parties, team and driver, that skill has totally disappeared. Progress yes, but not necessarily for the fan.
Frankly, saying a modern f1 car is harder to drive now than say a McLaren Honda round Mexico in 89 or a Benetton BMW on a qualifying lap at Monaco is tantamount to disrespect to any driver from that era!! As ask any of them who have driven both and they will tell you!
It doesn't make modern guys achievements any less or more, as the skill set has moved away from just driving the car.
I agree about drivers of older cars having to drive with more mechanical sympathy, but not tyre management, there is a lot more of that with the modern cars. Both are tricky to keep on the island, so that's equal. Older f1 required far more driver input, be it mechanical sympathy, tyre management, engine management, fuel management, keeping it on the island.
Most of this is now done by both parties, team and driver, that skill has totally disappeared. Progress yes, but not necessarily for the fan.
Frankly, saying a modern f1 car is harder to drive now than say a McLaren Honda round Mexico in 89 or a Benetton BMW on a qualifying lap at Monaco is tantamount to disrespect to any driver from that era!! As ask any of them who have driven both and they will tell you!
It doesn't make modern guys achievements any less or more, as the skill set has moved away from just driving the car.
Edited by LukeBrown66 on Sunday 27th December 16:44
So which drivers are saying that the modern cars are easier or harder? They certainly used to be more physical to drive with heavy controls, but the G forces were lower back then.
LukeBrown66 said:
it really is this basic.
Older f1 required far more driver input, be it mechanical sympathy, tyre management, engine management, fuel management, keeping it on the island.
Most of this is now done by both parties, team and driver, that skill has totally disappeared. Progress yes, but not necessarily for the fan.
Frankly, saying a modern f1 car is harder to drive now than say a McLaren Honda round Mexico in 89 or a Benetton BMW on a qualifying lap at Monaco is tantamount to disrespect to any driver from that era!! As ask any of them who have driven both and they will tell you!
It doesn't make modern guys achievements any less or more, as the skill set has moved away from just driving the car.
Well, Brundle which I believed drove the old cars and had the privilege to test the modern cars said that it was more physical to drive modern f1 (I think it was to do with G force) and required a lot more attention to details.Older f1 required far more driver input, be it mechanical sympathy, tyre management, engine management, fuel management, keeping it on the island.
Most of this is now done by both parties, team and driver, that skill has totally disappeared. Progress yes, but not necessarily for the fan.
Frankly, saying a modern f1 car is harder to drive now than say a McLaren Honda round Mexico in 89 or a Benetton BMW on a qualifying lap at Monaco is tantamount to disrespect to any driver from that era!! As ask any of them who have driven both and they will tell you!
It doesn't make modern guys achievements any less or more, as the skill set has moved away from just driving the car.
Edited by LukeBrown66 on Sunday 27th December 16:44
I think every era has had absolutely fantastic drivers. It just evolve like any other sports and like any other sports, it has become a lot more competitive due to the professionalism and investment of the teams.
I am a classic car person but to say that the equivalent of my cars today are not as good as the old stuff is a bit funny. They are different, that's it.
M5-911 said:
Well, Brundle which I believed drove the old cars and had the privilege to test the modern cars said that it was more physical to drive modern f1 (I think it was to do with G force) and required a lot more attention to details.
The 60-something who hasn't seen the inside of a gym for a long time found modern cars more physical than how he remembered the ones he used to race twenty years ago. I'm sure he finds a lot of physical activities harder these days.thegreenhell said:
M5-911 said:
Well, Brundle which I believed drove the old cars and had the privilege to test the modern cars said that it was more physical to drive modern f1 (I think it was to do with G force) and required a lot more attention to details.
The 60-something who hasn't seen the inside of a gym for a long time found modern cars more physical than how he remembered the ones he used to race twenty years ago. I'm sure he finds a lot of physical activities harder these days.thegreenhell said:
M5-911 said:
Well, Brundle which I believed drove the old cars and had the privilege to test the modern cars said that it was more physical to drive modern f1 (I think it was to do with G force) and required a lot more attention to details.
The 60-something who hasn't seen the inside of a gym for a long time found modern cars more physical than how he remembered the ones he used to race twenty years ago. I'm sure he finds a lot of physical activities harder these days.Massa commented that those cars were much harder to drive than the cars of the early 2000s.
Piginapoke said:
I do find modern F1 a bit meh, cars too big, too heavy, too much aero.
Hard to find a better small, light car than the MP4/8- perfection.
As I said earlier, the '93 Cars were perfectly proportioned, clean, lean & beautiful, there was just something special about that season somehow, MP4/8 was a lovely looking machine no question. Hard to find a better small, light car than the MP4/8- perfection.
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