Favourite F1 cars 1980 onwards
Discussion
OK let's get to basics.
Older cars say 1986. H pattern gears, no power steering, massive turbo lag, average tyres and brakes, poor aero, average reliability. Fuel limits meaning you had to drive to a target without the pits backup you have now, just crude computers. Poor safety at tracks, probably similar weather but no cools suits etc, average fitness. Poor flags, no real rules for backmarkers or off track or pretty much anything, certainly no real driving standards.
Modern cars, higher fitness needed for numerous reasons G load, tyres, aero and general sporting knowledge, flappy gears, massive amounts of assistance in every area, from pits, radio, data, wind tunnel etc. Limited track time but unlimited sim time. More to do in car agreed, regarding adjustments, but I do believe this would NOT be possible if the cars were as hard to drive on the limit as an 80's turbo was. You had to have one hand almost perma on the gear lever for a start. Far, far safer tracks and cars, DRS, amazing flag assistance in car and out, blue flags everywhere rules to mean you dont get an Arnoux or Alliot blocking you for laps.
And you could go on
If you dont believe me, watch Alboreto Mexico 1990 onboard, you will not see anything like it!!
Older cars say 1986. H pattern gears, no power steering, massive turbo lag, average tyres and brakes, poor aero, average reliability. Fuel limits meaning you had to drive to a target without the pits backup you have now, just crude computers. Poor safety at tracks, probably similar weather but no cools suits etc, average fitness. Poor flags, no real rules for backmarkers or off track or pretty much anything, certainly no real driving standards.
Modern cars, higher fitness needed for numerous reasons G load, tyres, aero and general sporting knowledge, flappy gears, massive amounts of assistance in every area, from pits, radio, data, wind tunnel etc. Limited track time but unlimited sim time. More to do in car agreed, regarding adjustments, but I do believe this would NOT be possible if the cars were as hard to drive on the limit as an 80's turbo was. You had to have one hand almost perma on the gear lever for a start. Far, far safer tracks and cars, DRS, amazing flag assistance in car and out, blue flags everywhere rules to mean you dont get an Arnoux or Alliot blocking you for laps.
And you could go on
If you dont believe me, watch Alboreto Mexico 1990 onboard, you will not see anything like it!!
DoubleD said:
So who are the drivers who are saying that modern cars are easier to drive than the older ones?
I don't think there are any drivers out there who can do a true comparison.People like Brundle have never run a full race distance in a modern hybrid with PAS and all the electronics to play with, whilst none of the current drivers have run a race distance in the old turbo era cars.
Completely different skillsets - and probably one of the reasons why drivers are getting younger and leaner.
LukeBrown66 said:
OK let's get to basics.
Older cars say 1986. H pattern gears, no power steering, massive turbo lag, average tyres and brakes, poor aero, average reliability. Fuel limits meaning you had to drive to a target without the pits backup you have now, just crude computers. Poor safety at tracks, probably similar weather but no cools suits etc, average fitness. Poor flags, no real rules for backmarkers or off track or pretty much anything, certainly no real driving standards.
Modern cars, higher fitness needed for numerous reasons G load, tyres, aero and general sporting knowledge, flappy gears, massive amounts of assistance in every area, from pits, radio, data, wind tunnel etc. Limited track time but unlimited sim time. More to do in car agreed, regarding adjustments, but I do believe this would NOT be possible if the cars were as hard to drive on the limit as an 80's turbo was. You had to have one hand almost perma on the gear lever for a start. Far, far safer tracks and cars, DRS, amazing flag assistance in car and out, blue flags everywhere rules to mean you dont get an Arnoux or Alliot blocking you for laps.
And you could go on
If you dont believe me, watch Alboreto Mexico 1990 onboard, you will not see anything like it!!
So what are your favourite cars from 1980 onwards ?Older cars say 1986. H pattern gears, no power steering, massive turbo lag, average tyres and brakes, poor aero, average reliability. Fuel limits meaning you had to drive to a target without the pits backup you have now, just crude computers. Poor safety at tracks, probably similar weather but no cools suits etc, average fitness. Poor flags, no real rules for backmarkers or off track or pretty much anything, certainly no real driving standards.
Modern cars, higher fitness needed for numerous reasons G load, tyres, aero and general sporting knowledge, flappy gears, massive amounts of assistance in every area, from pits, radio, data, wind tunnel etc. Limited track time but unlimited sim time. More to do in car agreed, regarding adjustments, but I do believe this would NOT be possible if the cars were as hard to drive on the limit as an 80's turbo was. You had to have one hand almost perma on the gear lever for a start. Far, far safer tracks and cars, DRS, amazing flag assistance in car and out, blue flags everywhere rules to mean you dont get an Arnoux or Alliot blocking you for laps.
And you could go on
If you dont believe me, watch Alboreto Mexico 1990 onboard, you will not see anything like it!!
We all know you don’t like the current cars.
Deesee said:
There’s some of the most dominant cars in the last 30 years posted here 
w11, mp4/4 (Prost vs Senna).
First large turbo with no ground effect championship winning car. BT52
The FW 14b (the most advanced car of its time).
The blown diffuser brawn.
Ratzenburgers simtec
The R25 which turned heads last week when wheeled out of a museum and fired up.
I’d have another look through
And there's also plenty of unsuccessful cars that just look nice. w11, mp4/4 (Prost vs Senna).First large turbo with no ground effect championship winning car. BT52
The FW 14b (the most advanced car of its time).
The blown diffuser brawn.
Ratzenburgers simtec
The R25 which turned heads last week when wheeled out of a museum and fired up.
I’d have another look through
Brawn didn't have a blown diffuser by the way, it used a loophole in the rules to create a bigger diffuser than the rules intended. The so called double deck diffuser. IIRC a couple of other teams also did it that year, with less success obviously.
80 Onwards
I think my fave era for design was the early N/A era after 88, tiny cars, relatively cheap, nice packaging. Stuff like Leyton House, white Lotus, even crap cars like Caloni, Fondmetal, they all had a nice shape and style.
Modern era well the hybrids are boats really, so probably the early V8 era cars and the latter V10 cars.
I think my fave era for design was the early N/A era after 88, tiny cars, relatively cheap, nice packaging. Stuff like Leyton House, white Lotus, even crap cars like Caloni, Fondmetal, they all had a nice shape and style.
Modern era well the hybrids are boats really, so probably the early V8 era cars and the latter V10 cars.
MP4/4 driven by Lewis: https://youtu.be/YbKgW-gX7SI
This was filmed as part of clarksons tribute to senna. This thread reminded me of it
This was filmed as part of clarksons tribute to senna. This thread reminded me of it
Darren390 said:
My favourite is the 1989 Williams FW12C. Basically it was an evolution of the 1988 FW12 which had the Judd V8. The only car in 1989 to take pole (Patrese) other than a McLaren. Lovely looking thing, always loved this colour scheme on a Williams.
Oh great choice! I saw the FW12 race, but not the 12C. Stunning car. Piginapoke said:
Darren390 said:
My favourite is the 1989 Williams FW12C. Basically it was an evolution of the 1988 FW12 which had the Judd V8. The only car in 1989 to take pole (Patrese) other than a McLaren. Lovely looking thing, always loved this colour scheme on a Williams.
Oh great choice! I saw the FW12 race, but not the 12C. Stunning car. During the test, were media and guests were invited, James Hunt was off pace, and was at least five seconds slower than the simulated round. Besides the off pace James told the media he was physically fit to make his comeback to Formula One."
https://www.unracedf1.com/james-hunt-comeback-that...
Favourite race cars can be defined by various metrics and reasons but above all else the consensus is that they are visually arresting captivating. The 80s were picked for good reason. For many they were our formative years; as a kid when I was looking at books the 70s F1 cars looked atrocious and ugly but today as an adult I can understand the visual appeal of, for instance, the snorkel airboxes. Its the evolution of F1 cars, much in the same way that the 2009-2016 era should be respected.
1993 was the beginning of the end with the proliferation of bargeboards.
A few weeks ago I was deciding whether the MP4/6 or 4/7 would favourite car. The former marks the end of sleek, curvy McLaren noses with an angle of attack which made it resembling an F14 Tomcat on 4 wheels; the latter's nose undoubtedly shows its Newey influence, its arrowhead nose blending with the front wings and even with bland white paint it looked lethal.
MP4/6
MP4/7
Piginapoke said:
I do find modern F1 a bit meh, cars too big, too heavy, too much aero.
Hard to find a better small, light car than the MP4/8- perfection.
Have to agree with LukeBrown66, the height of F1 aesthetics would be the late-80s to '92. Simple lines, lack of additional accoutrements even though they were being experimented in the 1980s and perhaps importantly, cars up and down the grid that looked quick when static. Hard to find a better small, light car than the MP4/8- perfection.
1993 was the beginning of the end with the proliferation of bargeboards.
A few weeks ago I was deciding whether the MP4/6 or 4/7 would favourite car. The former marks the end of sleek, curvy McLaren noses with an angle of attack which made it resembling an F14 Tomcat on 4 wheels; the latter's nose undoubtedly shows its Newey influence, its arrowhead nose blending with the front wings and even with bland white paint it looked lethal.
MP4/6
MP4/7
FourWheelDrift said:
"In 1989 James Hunt, 43 years old, took his place behind the wheel of a Williams FW12C. This happened during a test session held at the French Paul Ricard circuit in December. James arrived with a cigarette in his hand, and with his old Walter Wolf suit on his body wandering around with his seat fitting. Simon Jackson, at that time member of the Williams test team; “Hunt was also a bit fussy about his seat fitting. He wasn’t enjoying using the regular drivers seats.”
During the test, were media and guests were invited, James Hunt was off pace, and was at least five seconds slower than the simulated round. Besides the off pace James told the media he was physically fit to make his comeback to Formula One."
https://www.unracedf1.com/james-hunt-comeback-that...
I'm surprised Riccardo didn't sabotage the brakes for Hunt's test run. It was disgusting the way he treated Patrese after the death of Ronnie Peterson at Monza. During the test, were media and guests were invited, James Hunt was off pace, and was at least five seconds slower than the simulated round. Besides the off pace James told the media he was physically fit to make his comeback to Formula One."
https://www.unracedf1.com/james-hunt-comeback-that...
Darren390 said:
I'm surprised Riccardo didn't sabotage the brakes for Hunt's test run. It was disgusting the way he treated Patrese after the death of Ronnie Peterson at Monza.
Wasn't just Hunt, all the drivers said they wouldn't race in the following US GP if Patrese wasn't excluded, he didn't take part and they raced.
FourWheelDrift said:
Wasn't just Hunt, all the drivers said they wouldn't race in the following US GP if Patrese wasn't excluded, he didn't take part and they raced.
That's right, but all the other drivers eventually admitted they were wrong to single out Patrese. Hunt was the only one who didn't apologise, he rarely had anything positive to say in his commentary about Riccardo. Lots of my favorites already done so here's a few others that I liked.
BAR 50/50 livery, it was so different at the time.
Quite liked the 2012ish Lotus in the classic black and gold
Lastly, being a bit of a BMW fan I couldn't leave out the Williams with the walrus nose, 2004ish I think. Pretty sure it was credited with being the most powerful motor on the grid at the time.
BAR 50/50 livery, it was so different at the time.
Quite liked the 2012ish Lotus in the classic black and gold
Lastly, being a bit of a BMW fan I couldn't leave out the Williams with the walrus nose, 2004ish I think. Pretty sure it was credited with being the most powerful motor on the grid at the time.
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