The Official F1 2022 silly season *contains speculation*
Discussion
HustleRussell said:
Bottas isn’t outlasting Hamilton at Mercedes IMO. I reckon Hamilton will this season be considering extending to ‘22/23 but will have to weigh up that opportunity against the threat posed by a new team mate.
Mercedes really need to find a place for Russell in particular, and Ocon whose seat at Alpine is threatened.
I don’t think Verstappen’s bad boy image fits at Mercedes.
Ocon was released by Mercedes to join Renault wasn't. He technically isn't there problem any more.Mercedes really need to find a place for Russell in particular, and Ocon whose seat at Alpine is threatened.
I don’t think Verstappen’s bad boy image fits at Mercedes.
Deesee said:
Lewis did not get the contract he wanted and it would not surprise me if he’s got a ‘22 drive lined up, or steps away gracefully with the records.
I love how many people online are experts on what was happening behind the scenes in the contract negotiations.What exactly did Lewis miss out on that he wanted? And what are you basing that on beyond hunches and assumptions?
Nampahc Niloc said:
Deesee said:
Lewis did not get the contract he wanted and it would not surprise me if he’s got a ‘22 drive lined up, or steps away gracefully with the records.
I love how many people online are experts on what was happening behind the scenes in the contract negotiations.What exactly did Lewis miss out on that he wanted? And what are you basing that on beyond hunches and assumptions?
& he did not get the 2 year contract he wanted, there’s no hunches or assumptions there, he was on the record talking about a two year deal last year.
Deesee said:
Nampahc Niloc said:
Deesee said:
Lewis did not get the contract he wanted and it would not surprise me if he’s got a ‘22 drive lined up, or steps away gracefully with the records.
I love how many people online are experts on what was happening behind the scenes in the contract negotiations.What exactly did Lewis miss out on that he wanted? And what are you basing that on beyond hunches and assumptions?
& he did not get the 2 year contract he wanted, there’s no hunches or assumptions there, he was on the record talking about a two year deal last year.
DanielSan said:
HustleRussell said:
Bottas isn’t outlasting Hamilton at Mercedes IMO. I reckon Hamilton will this season be considering extending to ‘22/23 but will have to weigh up that opportunity against the threat posed by a new team mate.
Mercedes really need to find a place for Russell in particular, and Ocon whose seat at Alpine is threatened.
I don’t think Verstappen’s bad boy image fits at Mercedes.
Ocon was released by Mercedes to join Renault wasn't. He technically isn't there problem any more.Mercedes really need to find a place for Russell in particular, and Ocon whose seat at Alpine is threatened.
I don’t think Verstappen’s bad boy image fits at Mercedes.
Renault were determined to make it known that Ocon’s ties to Mercedes were severed but Mercedes were much less explicit.
HustleRussell said:
Does Toto no longer manage Ocon personally?
Renault were determined to make it known that Ocon’s ties to Mercedes were severed but Mercedes were much less explicit.
I'm about 90% certain Toto does still manage him but he's not part of the Mercedes junior setup anymore. I think part of Renault signing him was that he became their driver and not still part of the Merc program. Renault were determined to make it known that Ocon’s ties to Mercedes were severed but Mercedes were much less explicit.
HustleRussell said:
Does Toto no longer manage Ocon personally?
Renault were determined to make it known that Ocon’s ties to Mercedes were severed but Mercedes were much less explicit.
Tricky one that...Renault were determined to make it known that Ocon’s ties to Mercedes were severed but Mercedes were much less explicit.
I don't think he's tied to Mercedes technically anymore... But he is still managed by Toto isn't he!? And Toto is 1/3 of Mercedes F1 so I guess it's ultimately up to Toto if he is to be a future Mercedes driver. I doubt either Daimler (1/3) or Ineos (1/3) would want to argue with Toto when it comes to driver selection, he's kind of at ground zero in that regard.
Or more accurately, it's ultimately up to Ocon. If he impresses Toto he's got a route to the team. If not, he hasn't.
Personally I see GR as a very promising replacement for either current Merc driver, and beyond that who knows? I'm not convinced Ocon is right but I'm fully aware that from my armchair I hardly have the breadth of data and analysis to make any worthwhile judgement. As a casual observer I would say that DR showed the difference between a 'maybe' (Ocon) and a proven top driver (DR) last season. He doubled Ocon's points, which is impressive even allowing for the fact the team probably backed him in various ways once he was proven the best horse to back.
Deesee said:
Nampahc Niloc said:
Deesee said:
Gasly for Alpine, Ocon and Russell at Merc..
Hamilton could well be part of the new Monaco based team, or weighing up the Audi offer for 2025, although Red Bull vs Max in new regs would be box office.
Ocon would have to massively up his game to be in contention for a Mercedes seat.Hamilton could well be part of the new Monaco based team, or weighing up the Audi offer for 2025, although Red Bull vs Max in new regs would be box office.
He's nowhere near a Merc seat.
Piginapoke said:
Deesee said:
Nampahc Niloc said:
Deesee said:
Gasly for Alpine, Ocon and Russell at Merc..
Hamilton could well be part of the new Monaco based team, or weighing up the Audi offer for 2025, although Red Bull vs Max in new regs would be box office.
Ocon would have to massively up his game to be in contention for a Mercedes seat.Hamilton could well be part of the new Monaco based team, or weighing up the Audi offer for 2025, although Red Bull vs Max in new regs would be box office.
He's nowhere near a Merc seat.
In the 2nd half, from Tuscany, excluding Turkey (where the gap was 1s), the average quali gap was 0.099 in favour of Ricciardo. Not bad, but he still only beat him once in that time.
Impossible to know exactly how much difference it makes sitting a year out, or being new in a team compared to an establish team mate but Hulkenberg was binned off with a quali deficit of 0.078, or 0.035 if you exclude Aze where he was over 9 tenths off.
I'm not really arguing one way or the other I just like facts. I think people (me) were immediately watching Ocon when he was beaten by 6 tenths in the first race. They then forgot the next two races where he beat Riccardo in Styria and was inside a tenth in Hungary, but the next 5 races where the gaps were 0.2, 0.375, 0.369, 0.335 and 0.203 confirmed the worrying sign from the first race.
Impossible to know exactly how much difference it makes sitting a year out, or being new in a team compared to an establish team mate but Hulkenberg was binned off with a quali deficit of 0.078, or 0.035 if you exclude Aze where he was over 9 tenths off.
I'm not really arguing one way or the other I just like facts. I think people (me) were immediately watching Ocon when he was beaten by 6 tenths in the first race. They then forgot the next two races where he beat Riccardo in Styria and was inside a tenth in Hungary, but the next 5 races where the gaps were 0.2, 0.375, 0.369, 0.335 and 0.203 confirmed the worrying sign from the first race.
Quali deficit to pole over the season was
Dani Ric 101.321%
E Ocon 101.534%
(Benchmarked of Hamilton’s 100% median)
% rather than time as track length/speed vary.
Over the season by race/time
Dani gained 11 race positions from grid to flag, Esteban gained 29 net positions (9 at Sakhir) on classified finishes, only twice did he finish below his starting grid position.
A decent campaign considering the year out, also some interesting team mates to bench mark past performances against with Dani and Checo.
Dani Ric 101.321%
E Ocon 101.534%
(Benchmarked of Hamilton’s 100% median)
% rather than time as track length/speed vary.
Over the season by race/time
Dani gained 11 race positions from grid to flag, Esteban gained 29 net positions (9 at Sakhir) on classified finishes, only twice did he finish below his starting grid position.
A decent campaign considering the year out, also some interesting team mates to bench mark past performances against with Dani and Checo.
Horner: If Hamilton retires Verstappen will be top.of Mercedes' list. https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.verstap...
ajprice said:
Horner: If Hamilton retires Verstappen will be top.of Mercedes' list. https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.verstap...
Horner, wrong as usual. C350Akra said:
Deesee said:
Lewis did not get the contract he wanted and it would not surprise me if he’s got a ‘22 drive lined up, or steps away gracefully with the records.
Please do let us know exactly what Lewis wanted? Nobody else is party to what was in his mind except perhaps Toto.C350Akra said:
C350Akra said:
Deesee said:
Lewis did not get the contract he wanted and it would not surprise me if he’s got a ‘22 drive lined up, or steps away gracefully with the records.
Please do let us know exactly what Lewis wanted? Nobody else is party to what was in his mind except perhaps Toto.C350Akra said:
C350Akra said:
Deesee said:
Lewis did not get the contract he wanted and it would not surprise me if he’s got a ‘22 drive lined up, or steps away gracefully with the records.
Please do let us know exactly what Lewis wanted? Nobody else is party to what was in his mind except perhaps Toto.
Deesee said:
Dani gained 11 race positions from grid to flag, Esteban gained 29 net positions (9 at Sakhir) on classified finishes, only twice did he finish below his starting grid position.
It's easier to overtake when there are more cars starting ahead of you because you qualified badly. Ric had to do less overtaking to finish comfortably ahead of Ocon.Piginapoke said:
Eh? Ricciardo beat him in qualifying 15/2 and outscored him 117/62. He's lucky to still have a seat IMO, and may well not next year unless he improves against Alonso.
He's nowhere near a Merc seat.
Thank god someone said it, I was starting to think I was going mad. He'll be 25 at at start of the 2022 season, hardly a young prospect anymore.He's nowhere near a Merc seat.
Having said that, he tends to keep mostly out of trouble which is easier said than done in the midfield, so he could be a solid Bottas-esque #2 driver to a championship contender.
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