The official F1 2025 silly season *contains speculation.*
Discussion
Thought I'd start a thread on the new eco world f1 will enter in 2025.
First order of business is the flogging of that old horse vw entering f1.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56272450
First order of business is the flogging of that old horse vw entering f1.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56272450
I don't think F1 fits VWs electric only drive they were on about a few years ago (https://www.motorsport.com/general/news/volkswagen-electric-only-motorsport-tcr/4601530/)
I'm sort of in-indifferent to having large manufacturers in F1 - No doubt, it's great for the sport to have some of the worlds largest vehicle makers on their books, but we've seen it before with Renault, BMW, Toyota, Honda in F1 and Audi, Porsche and Peugeot in WEC they're only around while it suits them.
ETA: Maybe I'm being a bit harsh on Audi in WEC.. They'd pretty much done everything over 15 years
I'm sort of in-indifferent to having large manufacturers in F1 - No doubt, it's great for the sport to have some of the worlds largest vehicle makers on their books, but we've seen it before with Renault, BMW, Toyota, Honda in F1 and Audi, Porsche and Peugeot in WEC they're only around while it suits them.
ETA: Maybe I'm being a bit harsh on Audi in WEC.. They'd pretty much done everything over 15 years
Oldwolf said:
Weren't the V12 Two stroke engines one of the suggestions for 2025?
Yes, probably driven by Renault wanting to pursue the same tech in their road cars. FOM and the FIA will be talking and listening to many mainstream manufacturers both currently in and not in F1. They have to open up such dialogue to ensure that the final PU spec they issue will actually attract sufficient manufacturers to enter or remain in the sport and produce the PU's.VW, via Porsche, were very nearly in F1 (at least as a PU supplier) this season actually. They had developed a simplified hybrid PU that did away with MGU-K in order to be ready for the 'at the time' planned 2021 PU spec change, which was intended to make the PU's less complex and therefore cheaper to develop and produce.
In the end, it turned out that FOM/FIA decided to postpone the 21 PU spec change for whatever reasons.. probably that it was deemed cheaper overall to continue with the current complex hybrid than have all manufacturers develop a simpler system from scratch.
If they're indeed once more interested in entering F1 at the new PU spec change date, then that would strongly suggest the sport is at least considering the PU spec they have already developed.
SturdyHSV said:
Interesting seeing the March speculation on this.
So it appears now the MGU-H is being dropped, and VW's name is pretty consistently being waved around...
They already have developed prototype F1 PU that would be very similar to the current F1 PU's, albeit simpler - which is exactly what the sport needs and wants now.So it appears now the MGU-H is being dropped, and VW's name is pretty consistently being waved around...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Qnwt1Ubv0
The PU in the video is now outdated but close enough to current spec to save them a massive amount of time if they wanted to jump onboard - and the only reason they didn't enter F1 years ago, when they built that PU, is that FOM/FIA ultimately opted for the current, more complex hybrid PU spec.
But they've been in constant contact with VAG since, hence all the rumblings. They'll no doubt make it very tempting for VAG, under whatever brand, to enter the sport as it achieves a double whammy - new manufacturer constructor, and a new PU supplier. F1 needs both.
DanielSan said:
VW's name comes up everytime there's new engine regs being talked about and then nothing comes of it. Until there's an official announcement that one of their brands is entering F1 there's no point anyone holding their breath
But something did become of it last time there was a run up to a PU spec change. They spent a fortune on developing their prospective F1 engine. In the end the sport selected a different spec from that which Porsche had been championing and has developed.So they never ultimately entered the sport, but they definitely would have done - they were heavily invested in doing so. Now the pu spec is being simplified and closer to what they originally wanted... So there are good reasons to take the rumours seriously.
DanielSan said:
VW's name comes up everytime there's new engine regs being talked about and then nothing comes of it. Until there's an official announcement that one of their brands is entering F1 there's no point anyone holding their breath
It's like Ferrari saying they're going to compete in Indycar...I'm waiting for their next excuse for not competing in F1 when they pull of talks.
TheDeuce said:
DanielSan said:
VW's name comes up everytime there's new engine regs being talked about and then nothing comes of it. Until there's an official announcement that one of their brands is entering F1 there's no point anyone holding their breath
But something did become of it last time there was a run up to a PU spec change. They spent a fortune on developing their prospective F1 engine. In the end the sport selected a different spec from that which Porsche had been championing and has developed.So they never ultimately entered the sport, but they definitely would have done - they were heavily invested in doing so. Now the pu spec is being simplified and closer to what they originally wanted... So there are good reasons to take the rumours seriously.
As above, it's like Ferrari and Indycar. The rumours start, VW get some press and attention until they give an excuse not to do it again.
Until there's an official word the rumours aren't worth the paper they're written on.
DanielSan said:
TheDeuce said:
DanielSan said:
VW's name comes up everytime there's new engine regs being talked about and then nothing comes of it. Until there's an official announcement that one of their brands is entering F1 there's no point anyone holding their breath
But something did become of it last time there was a run up to a PU spec change. They spent a fortune on developing their prospective F1 engine. In the end the sport selected a different spec from that which Porsche had been championing and has developed.So they never ultimately entered the sport, but they definitely would have done - they were heavily invested in doing so. Now the pu spec is being simplified and closer to what they originally wanted... So there are good reasons to take the rumours seriously.
As above, it's like Ferrari and Indycar. The rumours start, VW get some press and attention until they give an excuse not to do it again.
Until there's an official word the rumours aren't worth the paper they're written on.
It also surely counts as official confirmation the rumours were true - the engine exists. Yet you're saying that what you're holding out for : confused:
Muzzer79 said:
VW?
That old chestnut.
I can’t see a full entry, Mercedes-style, but maybe with an engine.
They’ll want big electrification though, which I’m not sure F1 will have the balls for.
Not sure what VW might want for 25' but I definitely agree that the push to further electrify F1 will be driven by an effort to retain current and attract new manufacturers.That old chestnut.
I can’t see a full entry, Mercedes-style, but maybe with an engine.
They’ll want big electrification though, which I’m not sure F1 will have the balls for.
If you look at the timeline for when those manufacturers have to all but cease ICE production, things could start to happen fairly quickly in motorsport.
Current cell technology is a stumbling block for full electrification but no reason an F1 car couldn't 'today' be designed as the equivalent of a plug in hybrid, with some pre-charged battery capacity to support a cheaper and simplified hybrid PU.
Porsche didn't build an F1 engine. They were building a V6 replacement for the 919 when VAG told them to stop the LMP1 programme, and then tried to convince F1 to change their rules to suit the engine they were already developing.
VAG have been making excuses for not committing to F1 for years. As others have said, I'll believe they're serious when there's an official entry lodged with the FIA.
VAG have been making excuses for not committing to F1 for years. As others have said, I'll believe they're serious when there's an official entry lodged with the FIA.
VW/Audi/Porsche won't try building a team from scratch. Not even Mercedes were daft enough to try that.
They'll either buy an existing team (Sauber, HAAS), or far more likely, stump up the cash for Red Bull to call it's 2025 engine a VW/Audi/Porsche/Bugatti/Bentley/Skoda/Seat/Lamborghini.
I'd love them to badge it as a Lambo, a perfect combination of bulls
t?
They'll either buy an existing team (Sauber, HAAS), or far more likely, stump up the cash for Red Bull to call it's 2025 engine a VW/Audi/Porsche/Bugatti/Bentley/Skoda/Seat/Lamborghini.
I'd love them to badge it as a Lambo, a perfect combination of bulls
t? thegreenhell said:
Porsche didn't build an F1 engine. They were building a V6 replacement for the 919 when VAG told them to stop the LMP1 programme, and then tried to convince F1 to change their rules to suit the engine they were already developing.
VAG have been making excuses for not committing to F1 for years. As others have said, I'll believe they're serious when there's an official entry lodged with the FIA.
That's always the case, F1 are forever in discussion with manufacturers regarding what they can deliver and would want to see as outline specs for the PU in the future.VAG have been making excuses for not committing to F1 for years. As others have said, I'll believe they're serious when there's an official entry lodged with the FIA.
It might not have been born as an F1 engine but it was reimagined and redeveloped to suit - inline with the far simpler hybrid spec that F1 were definitely aiming for at the time.
The irony being that now F1 is pretty much back peddling to that more basic spec..
I don't think it's unreasonable to say that if F1 had gone with the simpler spec to begin with, Porsche or whichever other vag brand would have at very least been a PU supplier - it wasn't ultimately down to them that it didn't happen.
TheDeuce said:
That engine sat in a box would have cost a fortune to develop - it proves the rumours were true and they certainly didn't go to such effort simply to raise a few headlines and grab some publicity. Its not free publicity if you have to spend $50-100m on designing and proving a PU that has no value for anything other than the raving series you're 'pretending' to want to partake in!
It also surely counts as official confirmation the rumours were true - the engine exists. Yet you're saying that what you're holding out for : confused:
Rumours or not, they didn't enter F1 and every few years the rumours they want to enter F1 again come back. When official confirmation they're entering F1 is announced I'll believe they're entering F1. Until then it's meaningless words. It also surely counts as official confirmation the rumours were true - the engine exists. Yet you're saying that what you're holding out for : confused:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/30336569
Change the date on that story and it could be from 3 weeks ago...
DanielSan said:
TheDeuce said:
That engine sat in a box would have cost a fortune to develop - it proves the rumours were true and they certainly didn't go to such effort simply to raise a few headlines and grab some publicity. Its not free publicity if you have to spend $50-100m on designing and proving a PU that has no value for anything other than the raving series you're 'pretending' to want to partake in!
It also surely counts as official confirmation the rumours were true - the engine exists. Yet you're saying that what you're holding out for : confused:
Rumours or not, they didn't enter F1 and every few years the rumours they want to enter F1 again come back. When official confirmation they're entering F1 is announced I'll believe they're entering F1. Until then it's meaningless words. It also surely counts as official confirmation the rumours were true - the engine exists. Yet you're saying that what you're holding out for : confused:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/30336569
Change the date on that story and it could be from 3 weeks ago...
The fact they haven't entered F1 doesn't mean they don't want to. 'officially' they may want to very much, I think there's reasonable evidence of that.
The fact is that they haven't actually entered granted... But that doesn't mean they're not courting or being courted and would love to jump in to bed - providing F1 gives them what they need commercially.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff