Exceeded track limits
Discussion
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Stick a wet drag strip at the edge of the track. That sorted them out at the Nurburgring 
Hockenheim 2019 was the one that springs to mind there, with the drag strip on the outside of the last corner that, when it got wet, turned into something approaching an ice rink. Sandpit Steve said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Stick a wet drag strip at the edge of the track. That sorted them out at the Nurburgring
Hockenheim 2019 was the one that springs to mind there, with the drag strip on the outside of the last corner that, when it got wet, turned into something approaching an ice rink. 
A wet drag strip around the outside of track limits, with the walls thick with tyres/movable barriers.Some consistency wouldn't go amiss. There's seems to be one rule in qualifying and a different rule in the race. Then there's inconsistency within the race itself. Lewis was getting radio messages telling him to watch track limits at turn 4, Max was getting radio messages telling him to use more of the track. Then Max had to give up a place because he's exceeded track limits while overtaking. It's a shambles. Establish one rule for all sessions and stick to it. It's like the stewards are a bunch of OAPs in a home who can't remember what they were thinking two minutes ago and are now thinking the opposite, then, in another two minutes...
Far Cough said:
More tyre walls are needed. Stop the problem instantly.......... and dont bang on about safety blah blah blah , just look at the Monaco GP. You dont see track limits being talked about there do you ?
They did this at Castle Combe for last year. Getting fed up with people cutting and knocking down the flexi bollards they have replaced them with a “moveable” tyre bundle on most of the apexes. You definitely wouldn’t want to hit one but it wouldn’t usually be race ending.Effective in getting people back between the white lines, my mate is particularly bad for cutting where possible and having to avoid the tyres has added about 1.5 secs to his lap time.
I was watching on board from Spa in 1990, no kerbs even, the kerbs were raised about half an inch from the white line, to about 6 inches, there didn't seem to be cars flying off the road routinely.
I wonder why, because drivers knew they could not touch them so drove within that limit.
If rally drivers can do it, so can F1 drivers, the problem is the rulemakers gave them leeway after Senna, and this garbage is the result, cars going routinely off track at almost every corner. This is NOT racing, in anyone's eyes.
Everyone knows it, but nobody has the balls to put and end to it.
I wonder why, because drivers knew they could not touch them so drove within that limit.
If rally drivers can do it, so can F1 drivers, the problem is the rulemakers gave them leeway after Senna, and this garbage is the result, cars going routinely off track at almost every corner. This is NOT racing, in anyone's eyes.
Everyone knows it, but nobody has the balls to put and end to it.
I still find the whole track limits fuss ridiculous. A discussion point of the commentators when they want to sound authoritative that people jump on board with.
All that’s needed is consistent application. Changing the instruction after Max’s complaint was the error. As long as everyone knows the rules and they’re driving to the same understanding, I couldn’t care less. The only controversy this weekend was the mid race new interpretation triggered by RedBull...
All that’s needed is consistent application. Changing the instruction after Max’s complaint was the error. As long as everyone knows the rules and they’re driving to the same understanding, I couldn’t care less. The only controversy this weekend was the mid race new interpretation triggered by RedBull...
MitchT said:
Some consistency wouldn't go amiss. There's seems to be one rule in qualifying and a different rule in the race. Then there's inconsistency within the race itself. Lewis was getting radio messages telling him to watch track limits at turn 4, Max was getting radio messages telling him to use more of the track. Then Max had to give up a place because he's exceeded track limits while overtaking. It's a shambles. Establish one rule for all sessions and stick to it. It's like the stewards are a bunch of OAPs in a home who can't remember what they were thinking two minutes ago and are now thinking the opposite, then, in another two minutes...
Consistency of applying the rules is ruining other sports too. Football and rugby are particularly bad too.After another season of Track Limit controversy, time to resurrect this thread from a few years back. Nothing seems to have changed???
How can we get rid of this track limit farce?
My idea is to borrow the ideas from MotoGP & from Formula E and to use GPS to accurately locate a car on a track.
If we know from GPS data exactly when someone goes over the white line completely, we can use Amazon's AWS technology (as they keep bleating on about it!!!) and run a tally on the TV leaderboard as to how many times the track limits are crossed. This could be a little bar chart next to the drivers name and would be in real-time and have nothing to do with stewards!
When the 3 times is done, the driver automatically gets penalised, not by the stewards, but by the Amazon AWS servers, and is made to do a "long lap" as per MotoGP. Now I get that long laps don't necessarily work for bigger F1 cars, so we could have an "activation zone" as per Formula E? Get a penalty, you need to drive offline, activate your penalty, get some of you electrical deployment taken away resulting in a 5 second slower lap or a couple of laps of no DRS or a couple of laps of lower electrical deployment, whatever equates to the current 5seconds.
This could be done for all in race penalties, so we don't loose the flow of the race and so that teams can't ignore the penalty until a pit-stop or the end of the race by which time an advantage that negates the penalty is achieved (i.e. Verstappen this year and Perez and LeClerc last weekend!)
This tangible penalty mike make a few drivers think a bit more, when they see the guy behind overtake because their DRS has been disabled for track limit's or other.
Any other ideas?
How can we get rid of this track limit farce?
My idea is to borrow the ideas from MotoGP & from Formula E and to use GPS to accurately locate a car on a track.
If we know from GPS data exactly when someone goes over the white line completely, we can use Amazon's AWS technology (as they keep bleating on about it!!!) and run a tally on the TV leaderboard as to how many times the track limits are crossed. This could be a little bar chart next to the drivers name and would be in real-time and have nothing to do with stewards!
When the 3 times is done, the driver automatically gets penalised, not by the stewards, but by the Amazon AWS servers, and is made to do a "long lap" as per MotoGP. Now I get that long laps don't necessarily work for bigger F1 cars, so we could have an "activation zone" as per Formula E? Get a penalty, you need to drive offline, activate your penalty, get some of you electrical deployment taken away resulting in a 5 second slower lap or a couple of laps of no DRS or a couple of laps of lower electrical deployment, whatever equates to the current 5seconds.
This could be done for all in race penalties, so we don't loose the flow of the race and so that teams can't ignore the penalty until a pit-stop or the end of the race by which time an advantage that negates the penalty is achieved (i.e. Verstappen this year and Perez and LeClerc last weekend!)
This tangible penalty mike make a few drivers think a bit more, when they see the guy behind overtake because their DRS has been disabled for track limit's or other.
Any other ideas?
GPS is not going to be of use for track limits. The absolute best accuracy a system can provide, using the best satellite covered GPS area on the planet and also using a base station locally as a shift reference is 2cm, and that's using a twin antenna system on the car and that position is only the reference at the antenna position, not where the tyre is on the track surface.
The cars are already fitted with extremely accurate gps. When it’s zoomed in you can see the cars moving laterally across the track and the different lines each driver takes. I was impressed.
Still not accurate enough to detect track limits but then I do think the mk1 eyeball is still good enough.
Still not accurate enough to detect track limits but then I do think the mk1 eyeball is still good enough.
super7 said:
After another season of Track Limit controversy, time to resurrect this thread from a few years back. Nothing seems to have changed???
How can we get rid of this track limit farce?
My idea is to borrow the ideas from MotoGP & from Formula E and to use GPS to accurately locate a car on a track.
If we know from GPS data exactly when someone goes over the white line completely, we can use Amazon's AWS technology (as they keep bleating on about it!!!) and run a tally on the TV leaderboard as to how many times the track limits are crossed. This could be a little bar chart next to the drivers name and would be in real-time and have nothing to do with stewards!
When the 3 times is done, the driver automatically gets penalised, not by the stewards, but by the Amazon AWS servers, and is made to do a "long lap" as per MotoGP. Now I get that long laps don't necessarily work for bigger F1 cars, so we could have an "activation zone" as per Formula E? Get a penalty, you need to drive offline, activate your penalty, get some of you electrical deployment taken away resulting in a 5 second slower lap or a couple of laps of no DRS or a couple of laps of lower electrical deployment, whatever equates to the current 5seconds.
This could be done for all in race penalties, so we don't loose the flow of the race and so that teams can't ignore the penalty until a pit-stop or the end of the race by which time an advantage that negates the penalty is achieved (i.e. Verstappen this year and Perez and LeClerc last weekend!)
This tangible penalty mike make a few drivers think a bit more, when they see the guy behind overtake because their DRS has been disabled for track limit's or other.
Any other ideas?
It would appear that piles of tyres is a no no so ........... go back to grass. Black tarmac bordered by a white line and the wrong side of that , a strip of grass , not to wide mind and then beyond that some further tarmac.How can we get rid of this track limit farce?
My idea is to borrow the ideas from MotoGP & from Formula E and to use GPS to accurately locate a car on a track.
If we know from GPS data exactly when someone goes over the white line completely, we can use Amazon's AWS technology (as they keep bleating on about it!!!) and run a tally on the TV leaderboard as to how many times the track limits are crossed. This could be a little bar chart next to the drivers name and would be in real-time and have nothing to do with stewards!
When the 3 times is done, the driver automatically gets penalised, not by the stewards, but by the Amazon AWS servers, and is made to do a "long lap" as per MotoGP. Now I get that long laps don't necessarily work for bigger F1 cars, so we could have an "activation zone" as per Formula E? Get a penalty, you need to drive offline, activate your penalty, get some of you electrical deployment taken away resulting in a 5 second slower lap or a couple of laps of no DRS or a couple of laps of lower electrical deployment, whatever equates to the current 5seconds.
This could be done for all in race penalties, so we don't loose the flow of the race and so that teams can't ignore the penalty until a pit-stop or the end of the race by which time an advantage that negates the penalty is achieved (i.e. Verstappen this year and Perez and LeClerc last weekend!)
This tangible penalty mike make a few drivers think a bit more, when they see the guy behind overtake because their DRS has been disabled for track limit's or other.
Any other ideas?
Its self governing as if you go beyond the track limits then the grass is slippery and traction is lost. Go way beyond that or have a spin and you quickly move over the grass back onto tarmac to slow down or rejoin.
Both impose their own penalty without any fuss.
shirt said:
The cars are already fitted with extremely accurate gps. When it’s zoomed in you can see the cars moving laterally across the track and the different lines each driver takes. I was impressed.
Still not accurate enough to detect track limits but then I do think the mk1 eyeball is still good enough.
Most club racers have GPS based systems now. The point i was making is it's not accurate enough, even using the highest spec systems, or positioned in a way you can use it for track limits.Still not accurate enough to detect track limits but then I do think the mk1 eyeball is still good enough.
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