Official 2021 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix **SPOILERS**

[TheDeuce]

kiseca said:

Before the season I said give Ricciardo 5 or 6 races to bed in before judging him against Norris, because it took him about that to settle and gain the upper hand at Renault. I didn't think Norris would be a huge threat for him ultimately. However, saying that, Norris this year is looking fantastic, and Ricciardo, despite being new, is indeed so far looking rather ordinary in that car.

I'll give him time but meanwhile Sainz has been doing alright against Le Clerc, Perez has been impressing (well, up and down really) in what at least used to be a tricky Red Bull - he's making a few bad judgements and having some rotten luck but he's showing more potential than Gasly or Albon ever really showed - and he's still saying he needs to learn the car so we can expect more from him as he settles.

For me jury is still out for Ricciardo but despite my expectation that he needs time to get comfy in the car (or get the car comfy for him) I'm still underwhelmed by his performance in the McLaren so far. I expected a stronger start from him.

But Lando is definitely standing out right now, and I really like him as a character so he's one of the drivers I enjoy seeing do well.

DR is a weird one, it's odd that he isn't looking more impressive right now. I'm aware that some consider him to be overated and will see this as confirmation of as much... But his record shows that when he was in the same car as Max, he performed absolutely as his equal. DR is a proven talent in that regard.

Maybe he is just taking time to get comfortable in the McLaren.. or maybe lando is even better than we think!

[Sandpit Steve]

TheDeuce said:

DR is a weird one, it's odd that he isn't looking more impressive right now. I'm aware that some consider him to be overated and will see this as confirmation of as much... But his record shows that when he was in the same car as Max, he performed absolutely as his equal. DR is a proven talent in that regard.

Maybe he is just taking time to get comfortable in the McLaren.. or maybe lando is even better than we think!

All of the drivers who changed teams seem to be taking time to find their feet. I just think these cars are now so unique, that it takes longer than ever before for even an experienced driver to truly be at one with them.

[VladD]

TheDeuce said:

Flanders. said:

Didn't Bottas pit on the lap before the accident? Perhaps the Merc isn't as good as other cars at warming the tyres quickly hence why Bottas was so slow?

Having watched a replay I think there was a painted line on the circuit which caused Russell to spin the back wheels up and then subsequently drop the car.

That is exactly the Mercs issue, they have confirmed that they have issues getting the tyre temps up.

Details of their struggles here: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.how-the...

It was interesting that the Mercs took a few laps to get their tyres up to temp, but possibly, as a result they lasted longer. This was demonstrated by Max pulling away from Lewis at the beginning of stints but then Lewis coming back at Max later on. It was a shame in some respects that Lewis had his off and that we had the big shunt otherwise we could have seen Lewis chasing Max down in the latter half of the race, the reverse of the previous race, and what we've all been waiting for for years.

[paulguitar]

RB Will said:

ch37 said:

When was the last time Hamilton made an 'unforced error?!

Literally every race this season.

All 2 of them?

Also, leading the WDC with a win and a second, in an inferior car. It's a pretty damn good start to the season.

[anonymous-user]

TheDeuce said:

DR is a weird one, it's odd that he isn't looking more impressive right now. I'm aware that some consider him to be overated and will see this as confirmation of as much... But his record shows that when he was in the same car as Max, he performed absolutely as his equal. DR is a proven talent in that regard.

Maybe he is just taking time to get comfortable in the McLaren.. or maybe lando is even better than we think!

Maybe as you get older and you have made enough money to last a lifetime you just lose the hunger and edge without realising it?

There seems to me to be two groups of drivers who are consistently under performing

1)Youngsters who either don't quite have the talent for F1 or who are there purely because of the money they bring.

Antonio Giovinazzi, Nikita Mazepin, Nicholas Latifi, maybe Mick Schumacher

2)Older drivers who were once good but have lost that edge

Sebastian Vettel, Kimi Räikkönen, maybe Fernando Alonso and Daniel Ricciardo

I also think the next few races will determine if Valtteri Bottas and Sergio Pérez are in F1 next year. Or maybe they look bad at the moment as Lewis and Max are in a league of their own?

[Derek Smith]

paulguitar said:

RB Will said:

ch37 said:

When was the last time Hamilton made an 'unforced error?!

Literally every race this season.

All 2 of them?

Also, leading the WDC with a win and a second, in an inferior car. It's a pretty damn good start to the season.

What was LH's unforced error in race 1? He locked up once when MV was closing, but he did it at a spot where the lockup did not cost him much in the way of time, and there was a large run-off. That, to me, was calculation. He was pushing everywhere, but more in those parts where a slight under-rotation would not cost much wouldn't cost much. It was, if anything, an example of what makes him such a force to be reckoned with.

[vaud]

Sandpit Steve said:

I’m sure Toto will be talking to Bottas, to try and understand why he was off the pace this weekend - in private.
In public he’ll be backing his driver to the hilt, as would any team manager in that situation.

George is also "his driver" - he is just on loan to Williams.

[Mr_Thyroid]

entropy said:

Mr_Thyroid said:

I like George. He comes across as a smart guy. But his argument that Valteri should care less about P9 that him is pretty daft.

Not sure he meant it like that.

The bigger picture is that this race would have been a race to forget for VB, pootling around the top 10 when in theory he should be on the podium. On the other hand GR finishing in P9 would've offered Williams a big payday but inconsequential to the factory Merc in the grand scheme of things.

You're talking like it was the final lap - it was less than half distance.

Bottas had come out of the pits one lap earlier and will have expected to easily pull away and start making up positions once he got his tyres working properly. Russell's chances of maintaining 9th were very slim and 10th would have been his best finish for Williams so really, he had more to lose by going for it.

Of course we've all seen Bottas' inert performances in traffic so we (and probably Russell) have our doubts but he will have backed himself.

[glazbagun]

swisstoni said:

The simple truth is that mistakes can be tolerated.
Being slow can’t.

Max had season long nightmares, but when he wasn't crashing he was spectacular. Bottas shone in his rookie season and Bottas 2.0 was a great #2, willingly or not. But he seems a long way from that so far this season.

George / VB would be a great team.

[Muzzer79]

Sandpit Steve said:

TheDeuce said:

DR is a weird one, it's odd that he isn't looking more impressive right now. I'm aware that some consider him to be overated and will see this as confirmation of as much... But his record shows that when he was in the same car as Max, he performed absolutely as his equal. DR is a proven talent in that regard.

Maybe he is just taking time to get comfortable in the McLaren.. or maybe lando is even better than we think!

All of the drivers who changed teams seem to be taking time to find their feet. I just think these cars are now so unique, that it takes longer than ever before for even an experienced driver to truly be at one with them.

It also shouldn't be under-played that Ricciardo, like all drivers changing teams, has only physically driven his new car for a grand total of 1.5 days in testing then practice/qualifying/race in Bahrain and practice/qualifying/race in Imola.

That is precious little track time in an unfamiliar car with different systems and a different powertrain.

[Muzzer79]

Mr_Thyroid said:

entropy said:

Mr_Thyroid said:

I like George. He comes across as a smart guy. But his argument that Valteri should care less about P9 that him is pretty daft.

Not sure he meant it like that.

The bigger picture is that this race would have been a race to forget for VB, pootling around the top 10 when in theory he should be on the podium. On the other hand GR finishing in P9 would've offered Williams a big payday but inconsequential to the factory Merc in the grand scheme of things.

You're talking like it was the final lap - it was less than half distance.

Bottas had come out of the pits one lap earlier and will have expected to easily pull away and start making up positions once he got his tyres working properly. Russell's chances of maintaining 9th were very slim and 10th would have been his best finish for Williams so really, he had more to lose by going for it.

Of course we've all seen Bottas' inert performances in traffic so we (and probably Russell) have our doubts but he will have backed himself.

If George hadn't gone for 9th when it was a possibility, I'd have lost a bit of respect for him.

Easy to say in hindsight that he should have stuck with 10th but, as was quite famously said once, the day you don't go for a gap is the day you're not a racing driver.....

[RB Will]

Derek Smith said:

paulguitar said:

RB Will said:

ch37 said:

When was the last time Hamilton made an 'unforced error?!

Literally every race this season.

All 2 of them?

Also, leading the WDC with a win and a second, in an inferior car. It's a pretty damn good start to the season.

What was LH's unforced error in race 1? He locked up once when MV was closing, but he did it at a spot where the lockup did not cost him much in the way of time, and there was a large run-off. That, to me, was calculation. He was pushing everywhere, but more in those parts where a slight under-rotation would not cost much wouldn't cost much. It was, if anything, an example of what makes him such a force to be reckoned with.

Outbraking yourself and ending up off the circuit is still an unforced error no matter what calculations you think are behind it. It still lost him some time so not the best place for it.

Race 1 had an unforced off (however you want to view it) and flustered enough to tell his engineer to hush, lost the lead but got given it back, and wasn't Max driving a "damaged" car or something?

Race 2 off track twice, damaged his car twice, goes lap down, by sheer luck 2 other drivers collide and get him a fixed car and a lap back so all he has to do is trundle past some mid field cars to take second back.

How inferior is the car? It was on pole this week?

[paulguitar]

RB Will said:

How inferior is the car? It was on pole this week?

It's considered inferior by pretty much all of the experts and team personnel.

It was on pole because it's being driven by the best driver.

[Leithen]

Joey Deacon said:

Maybe as you get older and you have made enough money to last a lifetime you just lose the hunger and edge without realising it?

There seems to me to be two groups of drivers who are consistently under performing

1)Youngsters who either don't quite have the talent for F1 or who are there purely because of the money they bring.

Antonio Giovinazzi, Nikita Mazepin, Nicholas Latifi, maybe Mick Schumacher

2)Older drivers who were once good but have lost that edge

Sebastian Vettel, Kimi Räikkönen, maybe Fernando Alonso and Daniel Ricciardo

I also think the next few races will determine if Valtteri Bottas and Sergio Pérez are in F1 next year. Or maybe they look bad at the moment as Lewis and Max are in a league of their own?

Giovinazzi and Schumacher are doing fine. Giovinazzi may find a move from Alfa difficult however.

Hamilton, Verstappen, Leclerc and Norris are extracting everything from their cars. That puts Bottas, Perez and Ricciardo under pressure. Sainz looks to have the speed, just needs consistency, Perez will probably be OK too.

What a great season.

[angrymoby]

RB Will said:

How inferior is the car? It was on pole this week?

Verstappen made mistakes in both runs:
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/12278329/i...

Verstappen also made a decent sized error & went off at the restart, but luckily for him no harm done
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/leclerc-explains...

[Mr_Thyroid]

Muzzer79 said:

If George hadn't gone for 9th when it was a possibility, I'd have lost a bit of respect for him.

Easy to say in hindsight that he should have stuck with 10th but, as was quite famously said once, the day you don't go for a gap is the day you're not a racing driver.....

Didn't say he shouldn't have gone for it. Just pointing out the real bigger picture.

[J..]

RB Will said:

How inferior is the car? It was on pole this week?

Max made a big error on his quali lap which looked like it cost a lot of time. If he didn’t, then we can only conclude that Perez is naturally quicker than both Max and Hamilton

[eps]

Could have, should have, would have...

Either way, the race was a great one - Qualifying teed it up and the rain and then drying conditions created the basis for an excellent, incident filled race.

My take on some of the incidents..

Lap 1, turn 1, LH and MV going toe-to-toe - with Lewis losing out, dropping back slightly but then coming back - I guess we now know that the tyres weren't getting into their operating window soon enough.. It was all looking so tantalising!! In my mind LH as the passer should have negotiated the back markers better - but was keen to not lose too much ground to MV - he felt it would be ultra-close around the one put stop planned.. Checo seemingly throwing it away handed the advantage back to Lewis. The team (RBR) will not have been happy at giving the advantage back to Lewis and Mercedes but it is 'only' round 2.

A bad weekend for Williams - I just hope they will not rue missing out on points at Imola. Latifi had a complete mare - but this is something that has been bubbling up in F1 - an incident of this type - and in other classes of motorsport - drivers returning to the circuit are desperate not to lose time and positions so return in an unsafe manner.

George - so close, but yes his youthful exuberance and possible desperation in wanting to stick one over on Valterri cost him. Hopefully just a small mark against his name as opposed to actually meaning very much. I think someone mentioned that mistakes can be forgiven - which they can, but not recurring ones (so hopefully this is a one-off) and then he made the decision to walk over to Valterri... Heat of the moment and all that, but hopefully he will learn from it. The conditions weren't in his favour and I think I'm right in thinking that the track at that point is curving left, so space is not in his favour either. All the slo-mos and youtube evidence don't exactly help, but it's a bit like other sports, when things happen at speed and in context of what has gone on before it isn't quite so clear cut as the frame by frame analysis that takes place.

Lando drove such a great final stint on the soft tyres - I thought he'd be toast and end up 5th or so.

I think anyone who has driven in such conditions or even raced in such conditions will know that they are hard, tiring experiences.

Good to see the safety cells and halo and so on do their job in protecting the drivers.

Some great GB drivers coming through the ranks!

[Gary C]

Echo the above

What a race

George seemed to have over reacted (by an inch!) to the jink and won't do it next time.

Max is certainly the real deal these days, I remember a team boss many years ago saying he preferred a new driver that approached the limit from going too fast and crashing a lot, to one that tried to inch up to the limit, as he believed that second driver never truly would reach it. Max has certainly come from the first stable rather than the second

I don't really mind who wins the WDC this year but I hope it remains as exciting as this to the end.

[Petrus1983]

GR messed up this weekend in quite a big way. I do wonder if languishing at the back has affected his race craft when competing against the top half of the grid. I can see why Toto is annoyed, it’s one of his drivers costing (financially) his team big money to fix the car.

Whilst it’s gone down as a racing incident for me it was all down to GR - the move VB made wasn’t enough to warrant going as far right as GR did, and the consequences of going onto the grass rather than backing off should have been clear in those conditions. It’s just a blip in an otherwise good career so far, but a big one.

Eta - mega happy for LN, totally likeable and now seems the real deal as a F1 driver too.