Valtteri Bottas at Mercedes

[Finlandese]

Teddy Lop said:

Never mind the perception that he's someone whose been inside the GOAT (team) and seen how it works. For that reason I wouldn't even rule out the no2 seat at RB.

Bullseye. That was one big reason why it was clear that all those Ocon rumours back then were just an effort to pump up Ocon´s market value. Letting Bottas go would´ve been a gift from Merc to Red Bull. Now with the rule change this will be lesser issue, but his ability to perform when paired with a driver like Hamilton is a very useful skill for a team like Red Bull.

[guards red]

85Carrera said:

guards red said:

throt said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Hamilton on multiple occasions said he wasn't worried about who was in the 2nd Mercedes. Let's see it then

Ham would say that because he knows that Merc wouldn't put a fast driver in the no 2 car.

It would be a eye opener for Ham if he heard of Max, Charles, Lando or Russell rocking up with a signed contract.

Imagine Russell with a few more drives under his belt in the car. But Merc know that, obviously.

Makes one wonder why Mercedes engage in this "plot" with Hamilton... They could simply give him the boot and get Russell for a fraction of the money, win the championship easy peasey and save a bundle in the process.

Also, Lewis is clearly a coward that he doesn't insist, INSIST that they dispense with Bottas a get in a real driver. After all, he calls the shots at Mercedes. Other Champions have led the way in the past by negotiating better drivers for the other seat in the team and ensuring that they both had equal status.

Edited by guards red on Thursday 13th May 17:32

You deluded fool.

If only Mercedes hadn’t thought of getting rid of a generational talent for a rookie who may, or may not, prove to be on a similar level.

Please list those champions who have INSISTED on having other drivers with equal status as I’m struggling to think of any.

Hamilton has partnered three champions (Alonso, Button and Rosberg) so I think he’s probably had more team mates who were also champions than any other world champion since Piquet about 30 years ago.

I guess my effort at sarcasm was too subtle. Apologies, I suspect that my views may align with yours?

[TwentyFive]

85Carrera said:

Hamilton has partnered three champions (Alonso, Button and Rosberg) so I think he’s probably had more team mates who were also champions than any other world champion since Piquet about 30 years ago.

Piquet had 3. Those being Lauda, Mansell and Schumacher.

However Nigel Mansell was in F1 after Piquet retired and he actually had 6 teammates who ended up as world champions throughout his career!

Andretti, Rosberg, Piquet, Hill, Prost and Hakkinen.

I can't think of anyone with more than that?

FWIW Button also had 3 world champion teammates, matching Lewis.

[ColdSyphon]

I know people like to stick the boot into Bottas but he was utterly hopeless today.

[g4ry13]

ColdSyphon said:

I know people like to stick the boot into Bottas but he was utterly hopeless today.

Absolutely nowhere and he's well and truly out of the championship. They may as well show him out of the back and get someone else in to help with the Constructors.

[Jasandjules]

I wonder if Bottas will be explaining to Toto that he finished ahead of Lewis today................

[ajprice]

P6 now, 5 ahead of Sainz. Not good.



Ferrari and Mclaren have got better this year, but Bottas should still be a step ahead of them.

[Flooble]

On the bright side it will make for a more even championship battle. Perez now has a win to his name so Red Bull will be slightly more hesitant about immediately assigning him to a totally duff strategy for the sake of Max (though no doubt he will still be sacrificed if necessary). While Mercedes by now will have realised they can't keep their "totally fair and even until mathematically impossible for Bottas to win" approach - so we won't see Max totally running away with the Championship because of Mercedes trying to "be fair". In fact, I would say that Merc have probably already started the "Bottas, it's James" strategy calls (e.g. qualifying yesterday - tow for Lewis, nothing for Bottas. Or that could have just been incompetence).

[CoolHands]

I’d love it if Mercedes showed some bottle and just axed him immediately.

[kiseca]

TwentyFive said:

85Carrera said:

Hamilton has partnered three champions (Alonso, Button and Rosberg) so I think he’s probably had more team mates who were also champions than any other world champion since Piquet about 30 years ago.

Piquet had 3. Those being Lauda, Mansell and Schumacher.

However Nigel Mansell was in F1 after Piquet retired and he actually had 6 teammates who ended up as world champions throughout his career!

Andretti, Rosberg, Piquet, Hill, Prost and Hakkinen.

I can't think of anyone with more than that?

FWIW Button also had 3 world champion teammates, matching Lewis.

Prost had 5 world champion team mates, so not as many as Mansell, but Prost was team mates with each of them for at least 1 full season, and he beat all of them over a full season at least once:
Lauda, Rosberg, Senna, Mansell, Hill.

[85Carrera]

guards red said:

I guess my effort at sarcasm was too subtle. Apologies, I suspect that my views may align with yours?

Apology should be from me as I completely missed your point.

Am guessing from your user name we have similar coloured cars

[williamp]

CoolHands said:

I’d love it if Mercedes showed some bottle and just axed him immediately.

If they dont, I dont think they will win the constructors championship. A straight swap with GR at Williams?

It looke like Perez is what RB need: someone almost as quick, and can be P2 but if not can win. They havent had that chance in a long time, and wont want to lose it. I think Perez will have equal machinery going forward. Mercedes dont have that option, and dont look like having that anytime soon

[waynecyclist]

williamp said:

CoolHands said:

I’d love it if Mercedes showed some bottle and just axed him immediately.

If they dont, I dont think they will win the constructors championship. A straight swap with GR at Williams?

It looke like Perez is what RB need: someone almost as quick, and can be P2 but if not can win. They havent had that chance in a long time, and wont want to lose it. I think Perez will have equal machinery going forward. Mercedes dont have that option, and dont look like having that anytime soon

They should swap him with GR now before it is too late.

He was hopeless today

[TheDeuce]

I'm expecting he'll go for 2022 providing Lewis remains (don't think they'll want two new drivers at once). Most likely candidate has to be GR.

Question is though... Why is he so hopeless so far this season?

Apparently he struggles with getting the tyres switched on - but several hundred laps later he should be on top of that at least vaguely as well as Lewis is.

We're talking here about a guy that frequently qualifies within hundredths if not thousanths of Lewis, and has beaten Lewis on merit in races... Yet all of a sudden he can only go backwards in races

[ColdSyphon]

TheDeuce said:

I'm expecting he'll go for 2022 providing Lewis remains (don't think they'll want two new drivers at once). Most likely candidate has to be GR.

Question is though... Why is he so hopeless so far this season?

Apparently he struggles with getting the tyres switched on - but several hundred laps later he should be on top of that at least vaguely as well as Lewis is.

We're talking here about a guy that frequently qualifies within hundredths if not thousanths of Lewis, and has beaten Lewis on merit in races... Yet all of a sudden he can only go backwards in races

To kind of follow this up, I thought Toto was covering for Bottas a bit today where he said in his interview with Sky something along the lines of Bottas struggled because his car was nowhere.

Bottas has always seemed to struggle if he ends up back in the pack, he just doesn't seem able to switch it up a gear and carve through like Lewis can. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I can't ever recall Bottas having one of those epic comeback drives during a race?

If Perez has really got on top of the Red Bull and ends up regularly qualifying/racing in the top 3, then I think Bottas' shortcomings may be further exposed.

[Muzzer79]

waynecyclist said:

williamp said:

CoolHands said:

I’d love it if Mercedes showed some bottle and just axed him immediately.

If they dont, I dont think they will win the constructors championship. A straight swap with GR at Williams?

It looke like Perez is what RB need: someone almost as quick, and can be P2 but if not can win. They havent had that chance in a long time, and wont want to lose it. I think Perez will have equal machinery going forward. Mercedes dont have that option, and dont look like having that anytime soon

They should swap him with GR now before it is too late.

He was hopeless today

What makes any of you think that Russell would be any faster in the Mercedes than Bottas is?

Bottas hasn't forgotten how to drive.......

I've said it before and I'll say it again - maybe, just maybe, Bottas is more of a true representation of where the Mercedes is performance-wise this year and Hamilton flatters it?

But that doesn't fit in with the rhetoric of the Mercedes being a plug-and-play nailed-on winning machine and you could put Luca Badoer in it and he'd be 10 x WDC.....

[StevieBee]

If Bottas was released, I very much doubt it would be to an open market.

Don't forget that the 2022 cars have been in development for a year longer than was anticipated and Bottas will have been an integral part of that development. The last thing they'll want is RBR, Alpine or Ferrari taking him on even as a Development Driver.

[patmahe]

I think Bottas has fallen out of favour with Mercedes, Toto has made token efforts at repairing the relationship but I think Valterri would benefit mentally from going elsewhere, the question is what options are open to him? Williams, Alfa, Haas all quite poor options unless they surprise in 2021.

I'm surprised how quickly Mercedes seems to have turned toxic now that they don't have the fastest car, criticising each other in public etc.. a long way from the harmonious team that's cantered to multiple championships.

[g4ry13]

StevieBee said:

If Bottas was released, I very much doubt it would be to an open market.

Don't forget that the 2022 cars have been in development for a year longer than was anticipated and Bottas will have been an integral part of that development. The last thing they'll want is RBR, Alpine or Ferrari taking him on even as a Development Driver.

I don't think anyone would be clamouring to get him anyway! Unless it's as a test driver I don't see him racing again once he leaves Mercedes.

[paulguitar]

g4ry13 said:

I don't think anyone would be clamouring to get him anyway! Unless it's as a test driver I don't see him racing again once he leaves Mercedes.

Au contraire, he will likely have plenty of offers, a race winner, capable of matching Hamilton in quali on quite a few occasions and coming from the most successful team in the sport's history.