Valtteri Bottas at Mercedes
Discussion
williamp said:
If they dont, I dont think they will win the constructors championship. A straight swap with GR at Williams?
It looke like Perez is what RB need: someone almost as quick, and can be P2 but if not can win. They havent had that chance in a long time, and wont want to lose it. I think Perez will have equal machinery going forward. Mercedes dont have that option, and dont look like having that anytime soon
Yep. Obviously Wolff wasn't reading PH last year. It looke like Perez is what RB need: someone almost as quick, and can be P2 but if not can win. They havent had that chance in a long time, and wont want to lose it. I think Perez will have equal machinery going forward. Mercedes dont have that option, and dont look like having that anytime soon
Should've switched VB for GR while he could.
n3il123 said:
paulguitar said:
Au contraire, he will likely have plenty of offers, a race winner, capable of matching Hamilton in quali on quite a few occasions and coming from the most successful team in the sport's history.
But where are the spare seats? Ferrari / Red bull - no chance
Mclaren - Maybe if Ricciardo disappears, but no.
Haas - no
Alpine - Maybe if Alonso disappears
Aston Martin - Maybe if Vettel leaves but they'd probably want someone more competitive.
Williams - a possibility but I think they'd rather give a young driver their chance.
Alfa Romeo - Probably the best possibility if Kimi decides he's had enough.
g4ry13 said:
StevieBee said:
If Bottas was released, I very much doubt it would be to an open market.
Don't forget that the 2022 cars have been in development for a year longer than was anticipated and Bottas will have been an integral part of that development. The last thing they'll want is RBR, Alpine or Ferrari taking him on even as a Development Driver.
I don't think anyone would be clamouring to get him anyway! Unless it's as a test driver I don't see him racing again once he leaves Mercedes. Don't forget that the 2022 cars have been in development for a year longer than was anticipated and Bottas will have been an integral part of that development. The last thing they'll want is RBR, Alpine or Ferrari taking him on even as a Development Driver.
Talk about tough crowd......
g4ry13 said:
n3il123 said:
paulguitar said:
Au contraire, he will likely have plenty of offers, a race winner, capable of matching Hamilton in quali on quite a few occasions and coming from the most successful team in the sport's history.
But where are the spare seats? Ferrari / Red bull - no chance
Mclaren - Maybe if Ricciardo disappears, but no.
Haas - no
Alpine - Maybe if Alonso disappears
Aston Martin - Maybe if Vettel leaves but they'd probably want someone more competitive.
Williams - a possibility but I think they'd rather give a young driver their chance.
Alfa Romeo - Probably the best possibility if Kimi decides he's had enough.
He'd be an ideal fit at Aston Martin (although Vettel is now settling in well) or Alpine. Williams could be an option, although they would be the ones having a big job convincing him, rather than the other way around.
He might stay at Mercedes. Given the fact that he has only had 2 races this year where he was struggling and they were related heavily to car performance issues, they might decide that the guy who delivers regular podiums is the safest bet for new rules, etc and throw George into a midfield team for another year.
Muzzer79 said:
g4ry13 said:
StevieBee said:
If Bottas was released, I very much doubt it would be to an open market.
Don't forget that the 2022 cars have been in development for a year longer than was anticipated and Bottas will have been an integral part of that development. The last thing they'll want is RBR, Alpine or Ferrari taking him on even as a Development Driver.
I don't think anyone would be clamouring to get him anyway! Unless it's as a test driver I don't see him racing again once he leaves Mercedes. Don't forget that the 2022 cars have been in development for a year longer than was anticipated and Bottas will have been an integral part of that development. The last thing they'll want is RBR, Alpine or Ferrari taking him on even as a Development Driver.
Talk about tough crowd......
Yes he's a good driver & as a second driver for Mercedes he's been perfect but what is he going to bring to move a lesser team forward.
Muzzer79 said:
g4ry13 said:
n3il123 said:
paulguitar said:
Au contraire, he will likely have plenty of offers, a race winner, capable of matching Hamilton in quali on quite a few occasions and coming from the most successful team in the sport's history.
But where are the spare seats? Ferrari / Red bull - no chance
Mclaren - Maybe if Ricciardo disappears, but no.
Haas - no
Alpine - Maybe if Alonso disappears
Aston Martin - Maybe if Vettel leaves but they'd probably want someone more competitive.
Williams - a possibility but I think they'd rather give a young driver their chance.
Alfa Romeo - Probably the best possibility if Kimi decides he's had enough.
He'd be an ideal fit at Aston Martin (although Vettel is now settling in well) or Alpine. Williams could be an option, although they would be the ones having a big job convincing him, rather than the other way around.
He might stay at Mercedes. Given the fact that he has only had 2 races this year where he was struggling and they were related heavily to car performance issues, they might decide that the guy who delivers regular podiums is the safest bet for new rules, etc and throw George into a midfield team for another year.
Williams / Alfa Romeo are the best possibilities. I think Williams would be after more exciting prospects. Alfa seem to put up with Kimi so maybe they'd be willing to take on someone mediocre with experience.
Muzzer79 said:
g4ry13 said:
StevieBee said:
If Bottas was released, I very much doubt it would be to an open market.
Don't forget that the 2022 cars have been in development for a year longer than was anticipated and Bottas will have been an integral part of that development. The last thing they'll want is RBR, Alpine or Ferrari taking him on even as a Development Driver.
I don't think anyone would be clamouring to get him anyway! Unless it's as a test driver I don't see him racing again once he leaves Mercedes. Don't forget that the 2022 cars have been in development for a year longer than was anticipated and Bottas will have been an integral part of that development. The last thing they'll want is RBR, Alpine or Ferrari taking him on even as a Development Driver.
Talk about tough crowd......
g4ry13 said:
Or putting it another way....he's been in a dominant car for 4 and a bit seasons and managed 9 wins out of all the races - (0 in 2018 and came 5th in the championship)
He'd have rather better stats if he wasn't paired alongside possibly the greatest of all time. It's a tough gig.Mr Pointy said:
Muzzer79 said:
g4ry13 said:
StevieBee said:
If Bottas was released, I very much doubt it would be to an open market.
Don't forget that the 2022 cars have been in development for a year longer than was anticipated and Bottas will have been an integral part of that development. The last thing they'll want is RBR, Alpine or Ferrari taking him on even as a Development Driver.
I don't think anyone would be clamouring to get him anyway! Unless it's as a test driver I don't see him racing again once he leaves Mercedes. Don't forget that the 2022 cars have been in development for a year longer than was anticipated and Bottas will have been an integral part of that development. The last thing they'll want is RBR, Alpine or Ferrari taking him on even as a Development Driver.
Talk about tough crowd......
Yes he's a good driver & as a second driver for Mercedes he's been perfect but what is he going to bring to move a lesser team forward.
The Mercedes has been widely known to be a difficult car in traffic in recent years. Hamilton is a freak, just like Verstappen, so he can do what others can't but even Hamilton has struggled in some cases when dropped back (rare as that has been)
You'd be paying for a proven race winner who has in-depth knowledge of how the most successful F1 team of recent times operates. This is invaluable, not in terms of 'secrets' he knows - Bottas can't design a winning car - but he does know how a team wins and that is useful.
It's no different to Aston Martin signing Vettel. On the face of it, it's a questionable decision given his last couple of seasons at Ferrari, but he knows how to win races, titles and championships.
g4ry13 said:
Muzzer79 said:
g4ry13 said:
StevieBee said:
If Bottas was released, I very much doubt it would be to an open market.
Don't forget that the 2022 cars have been in development for a year longer than was anticipated and Bottas will have been an integral part of that development. The last thing they'll want is RBR, Alpine or Ferrari taking him on even as a Development Driver.
I don't think anyone would be clamouring to get him anyway! Unless it's as a test driver I don't see him racing again once he leaves Mercedes. Don't forget that the 2022 cars have been in development for a year longer than was anticipated and Bottas will have been an integral part of that development. The last thing they'll want is RBR, Alpine or Ferrari taking him on even as a Development Driver.
Talk about tough crowd......
Mark Webber was in a dominant car for 4 years and managed 7 wins (0 in 2013, 6th in the championship in 2012)
Rubens Barrichello was in a dominant car for 5 years and managed 9 wins
Gerhard Berger drove for McLaren in 1990 & 1991 and managed 1 win across both seasons. Senna won the title both years.
None of the above drivers were suggested as not worthy of an F1 drive when they're tenure at those teams came to an end
(Webber retired of his own volition, aged 37)
paulguitar said:
g4ry13 said:
Or putting it another way....he's been in a dominant car for 4 and a bit seasons and managed 9 wins out of all the races - (0 in 2018 and came 5th in the championship)
He'd have rather better stats if he wasn't paired alongside possibly the greatest of all time. It's a tough gig.Looking through Bottas' results, he did achieve a number of 2nd places but there's also a lot of inconsistency in his results where he has finished outside the top 3 quite often (6 times in 2017, 12 times in 2018 + 1 retirement, 4 times in 2019 + 2 retirements,5 times in 2020 + 1 retirement).
So i'm really unconvinced that who he is paired with makes much difference about his own performance as he's not been locking out P2 regularly.
Muzzer79 said:
So, out of 10 teams, half of them would potentially take him......
He'd be an ideal fit at Aston Martin (although Vettel is now settling in well) or Alpine. Williams could be an option, although they would be the ones having a big job convincing him, rather than the other way around.
He might stay at Mercedes. Given the fact that he has only had 2 races this year where he was struggling and they were related heavily to car performance issues, they might decide that the guy who delivers regular podiums is the safest bet for new rules, etc and throw George into a midfield team for another year.
The same question applies to GR as it does to VB - if not Mercedes then where? Mercedes don't control any other seats in other teams, and none of their other customer teams have a seat available anyway. The problem becomes even harder in Russell's case if Mercedes still expected to take him back after a spell in a third party team.He'd be an ideal fit at Aston Martin (although Vettel is now settling in well) or Alpine. Williams could be an option, although they would be the ones having a big job convincing him, rather than the other way around.
He might stay at Mercedes. Given the fact that he has only had 2 races this year where he was struggling and they were related heavily to car performance issues, they might decide that the guy who delivers regular podiums is the safest bet for new rules, etc and throw George into a midfield team for another year.
Muzzer79 said:
Just under half of his race wins have come when he hasn't been on pole, so I'm not sure where this notion that he can't move forward has come from.
But he's never been dumped to the back by something like a minor shunt & recovered to drive through the pack to pick up 6th/5th/4th. Nor has he ever been 20 seconds down & hunted down the car in front to overtake - you just know he can't do that.Muzzer79 said:
You'd be paying for a proven race winner who has in-depth knowledge of how the most successful F1 team of recent times operates. This is invaluable, not in terms of 'secrets' he knows - Bottas can't design a winning car - but he does know how a team wins and that is useful.
Yes of course, he's going to rock up to AM & tell Stroll he's running his team all wrong. Bottas simply isn't a leader, no-one is going to re-organise a team on his say so. Hamilton has told everyone he works with how they are expected to behave & work with him & has created the environment he wants.Bottas is a good driver, but he'll never be great & his value to a lower team is limited.
Muzzer79 said:
Gerhard Berger drove for McLaren in 1990 & 1991 and managed 1 win across both seasons. Senna won the title both years.
I’ll probably get shot down for this. But to me, VB is to LH what Berger was to Senna. A reliable, fairly solid if not unremarkable F1 driver. Seemingly happy to play second fiddle to the No1 driver.
VB is unlikely to ever be F1 World Champion.
He just seems to lack the animal instinct and sparkle of a potential champion. As said above, he never seems to make progress. He lacks the fight and ability to push on during a race.
I’d find it unbelievable if Merc aren’t considering their options for 2022.
wiliferus said:
Muzzer79 said:
Gerhard Berger drove for McLaren in 1990 & 1991 and managed 1 win across both seasons. Senna won the title both years.
I’ll probably get shot down for this. But to me, VB is to LH what Berger was to Senna. A reliable, fairly solid if not unremarkable F1 driver. Seemingly happy to play second fiddle to the No1 driver.
VB is unlikely to ever be F1 World Champion.
He just seems to lack the animal instinct and sparkle of a potential champion. As said above, he never seems to make progress. He lacks the fight and ability to push on during a race.
I’d find it unbelievable if Merc aren’t considering their options for 2022.
He is Berger, Barrichello, Irvine, Webber. A solid backup
But that's exactly what Mercedes want. They know that their next champion is either Hamilton or Hamilton's replacement.
The decision comes from whether Hamilton's replacement drives alongside Hamilton from next year for a while or whether Hamilton will be around for a few years yet so they keep the status quo.
If they choose to keep status quo, it will not be a bad decision having a multi-race winner and regular podium sitter alongside the most successful driver of all time.
wiliferus said:
I’ll probably get shot down for this. But to me, VB is to LH what Berger was to Senna.
A reliable, fairly solid if not unremarkable F1 driver. Seemingly happy to play second fiddle to the No1 driver.
VB is unlikely to ever be F1 World Champion.
He just seems to lack the animal instinct and sparkle of a potential champion. As said above, he never seems to make progress. He lacks the fight and ability to push on during a race.
I’d find it unbelievable if Merc aren’t considering their options for 2022.
100% agree, and as I said earlier in this thread (and was shot down) this was all well and good all the time Mercedes had the best car and Lewis was easily winning the title.A reliable, fairly solid if not unremarkable F1 driver. Seemingly happy to play second fiddle to the No1 driver.
VB is unlikely to ever be F1 World Champion.
He just seems to lack the animal instinct and sparkle of a potential champion. As said above, he never seems to make progress. He lacks the fight and ability to push on during a race.
I’d find it unbelievable if Merc aren’t considering their options for 2022.
Now we have a situation where Red Bull are the equal of Mercedes and both Max and Sergio are all over Lewis. As we saw yesterday, one bad pitstop and Lewis is down to third with Sergio being impossible to pass and Max heading off into the distance. Mercedes need their other driver at the front to stop Red Bull doing this, it's no good him driving around in tenth place.
In a head to head between Valtteri and Max or Sergio who would you put your money on?
I would like to think that George has been told the drive is his next year and part of the issue at the moment is Valtteri knows he and F1 are pretty much done.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff