Valtteri Bottas at Mercedes
Discussion
SturdyHSV said:
kiseca said:
If you and Sparta listened to Daniel this year then Sparta would already know the answer to his question and you'd know that Daniel has repeatedly told the world's media this year that it's not the car it's him.
No indeed, it's been refreshing to see a slightly more serious side.I don't know why, mostly because of how Drive to Survive no doubt twisted it, but he's just come across as that sort of annoying OTT clown character that typically I find would be a ballache to be around and for whatever reason his arrogance or perhaps rather his delivery of it just annoys me
(don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the drivers have to be 'arrogant' in terms of thinking they're the best, it's part of the mentality that gets them to the top)
ajprice said:
TheDeuce said:
ajprice said:
Helmut Marko poking at the Bottas/Russell switch for gits and shiggles https://www.essentiallysports.com/helmut-marko-tro...
Say something interesting, gets articles written that contain the words "red bull", job done!Doesn't mean he actually cares or even really has an opinion.
Back to Williams
wiliferus said:
Another completely unremarkable performance from VB. Doesn’t attack, can’t defend. Yes, the strategy was wrong, but he literally did nothing of note.
In fairness he was saying it’s a 2 stop race. The team chose to ignore his advice and keep him out. The Merc is no longer so superior that they can defend on half knackered tyres with a more powerful engine mode. Although botas should have just parked it in the middle of the corner once he knew he was going deep to prevent the cutback
I don’t think he will be in the Merc next season. Russell is the future for Merc once Hamilton finishes so your better off getting him in the seat sooner.
wiliferus said:
Another completely unremarkable performance from VB. Doesn’t attack, can’t defend. Yes, the strategy was wrong, but he literally did nothing of note.
In a 90 minute Grand Prix, he legitimately finished 12 seconds behind his 7 x WDC team mate.What exactly are you expecting?
Muzzer79 said:
wiliferus said:
Another completely unremarkable performance from VB. Doesn’t attack, can’t defend. Yes, the strategy was wrong, but he literally did nothing of note.
In a 90 minute Grand Prix, he legitimately finished 12 seconds behind his 7 x WDC team mate.What exactly are you expecting?
wiliferus said:
Muzzer79 said:
wiliferus said:
Another completely unremarkable performance from VB. Doesn’t attack, can’t defend. Yes, the strategy was wrong, but he literally did nothing of note.
In a 90 minute Grand Prix, he legitimately finished 12 seconds behind his 7 x WDC team mate.What exactly are you expecting?
Hamilton couldn’t keep his rival behind, how is Bottas supposed to keep Perez behind when he has a big tyre advantage?
Honestly, half the people on here seem to think that unless he performs like Fangio’s better-driving love child then he should be in banger racing……
MB140 said:
In fairness he was saying it’s a 2 stop race. The team chose to ignore his advice and keep him out. The Merc is no longer so superior that they can defend on half knackered tyres with a more powerful engine mode.
Although botas should have just parked it in the middle of the corner once he knew he was going deep to prevent the cutback
I don’t think he will be in the Merc next season. Russell is the future for Merc once Hamilton finishes so your better off getting him in the seat sooner.
His error turned it into a two stop race. It was on for a one stop otherwise. To then come on the radio all sweary blaming the team when really it was his fault probably isn't going to go down well with Toto. Although botas should have just parked it in the middle of the corner once he knew he was going deep to prevent the cutback
I don’t think he will be in the Merc next season. Russell is the future for Merc once Hamilton finishes so your better off getting him in the seat sooner.
wiliferus said:
Muzzer79 said:
wiliferus said:
Another completely unremarkable performance from VB. Doesn’t attack, can’t defend. Yes, the strategy was wrong, but he literally did nothing of note.
In a 90 minute Grand Prix, he legitimately finished 12 seconds behind his 7 x WDC team mate.What exactly are you expecting?
I actually dont think it was that bad a race for VB today, seen plenty worse from him.
Max was gonna pass them whatever they did. Red Bull picked the best strategy today, it's hard to keep a talent like Max behind in a fast Redbull on newer tyres when he was taking 1-2 seconds a lap from them and clearly the Mercs were struggling on that old set.
Max was gonna pass them whatever they did. Red Bull picked the best strategy today, it's hard to keep a talent like Max behind in a fast Redbull on newer tyres when he was taking 1-2 seconds a lap from them and clearly the Mercs were struggling on that old set.
I genuinely feel sorry for VB, there's nothing not to like about him, but he just can't compete consistently like Lewis but he shows moments of brilliance where he looks untouchable but they are so far and few between. Must be frustrating to hear all the trash talk in the press and being beaten by Lewis week in and week out, how much does that dent your confidence ?
This year even more pressure on VB as they are currently 2nd in constructors and let's face it, that's not cause of Lewis efforts.
Defo worthy of a a seat in F1, but should that be in the best modern day F1 car.....just cant see it.
This year even more pressure on VB as they are currently 2nd in constructors and let's face it, that's not cause of Lewis efforts.
Defo worthy of a a seat in F1, but should that be in the best modern day F1 car.....just cant see it.
honda_exige said:
MB140 said:
In fairness he was saying it’s a 2 stop race. The team chose to ignore his advice and keep him out. The Merc is no longer so superior that they can defend on half knackered tyres with a more powerful engine mode.
Although botas should have just parked it in the middle of the corner once he knew he was going deep to prevent the cutback
I don’t think he will be in the Merc next season. Russell is the future for Merc once Hamilton finishes so your better off getting him in the seat sooner.
His error turned it into a two stop race. It was on for a one stop otherwise. To then come on the radio all sweary blaming the team when really it was his fault probably isn't going to go down well with Toto. Although botas should have just parked it in the middle of the corner once he knew he was going deep to prevent the cutback
I don’t think he will be in the Merc next season. Russell is the future for Merc once Hamilton finishes so your better off getting him in the seat sooner.
paulw123 said:
honda_exige said:
MB140 said:
In fairness he was saying it’s a 2 stop race. The team chose to ignore his advice and keep him out. The Merc is no longer so superior that they can defend on half knackered tyres with a more powerful engine mode.
Although botas should have just parked it in the middle of the corner once he knew he was going deep to prevent the cutback
I don’t think he will be in the Merc next season. Russell is the future for Merc once Hamilton finishes so your better off getting him in the seat sooner.
His error turned it into a two stop race. It was on for a one stop otherwise. To then come on the radio all sweary blaming the team when really it was his fault probably isn't going to go down well with Toto. Although botas should have just parked it in the middle of the corner once he knew he was going deep to prevent the cutback
I don’t think he will be in the Merc next season. Russell is the future for Merc once Hamilton finishes so your better off getting him in the seat sooner.
Another interesting race, great for the neutral and great for the excitement of Formula 1.
It's easy to find faults if you are looking for them. But I have a couple of issues with Bottas' performance this weekend.
The biggest is this: Perez finished ahead of him. Yes Max also beat his rival, but looking at Valtteri specifically, his job is to finish ahead of Checo and take points off Max whenever possible. He failed in that this weekend, for whatever reason.
Second, his race craft. The manner in which the Red Bulls breezed past him was frankly, embarrassing. Not only did he not defend at all he fell off the track the second Max got within striking distance. Max lost absolutely zero time behind him. Even 5 seconds resistance, just a lap or two, anything, could have made the difference between Max having the time to catch Lewis. Fighting behind a car is the best way to ruin your tires and rhythm. I think that was really difficult to excuse from Valtteri.
Lastly, the whining on the radio. It's a team sport. After Mercedes told Lewis this ones on us, he didn't say a word more, he accepted that. There's no benefit to how Valtteri threw his toys out the cockpit and chewed the team out on air. The way that race went for him was as much his fault as anyone else's and he looks like a fool when he swears and blames everyone else.
Now, to see things from Vatteris objective, it's no doubt that Red Bull were the better package this weekend. They did a great job. As things worked out, they were going to overtake the Mercedes, it was just a question of when. Valtteri finished fourth, a respectable position, and was not left behind in the race.
I just get the feeling that second and fourth should be viewed as a low point by the Mercedes team, whereas it might well have been one of Valtters better races this year. And I continue to maintain, that his standard of racing just isn't good enough for the seat he's in.
Another weekend where Bottas' fortunes at Merceded drop.
It's easy to find faults if you are looking for them. But I have a couple of issues with Bottas' performance this weekend.
The biggest is this: Perez finished ahead of him. Yes Max also beat his rival, but looking at Valtteri specifically, his job is to finish ahead of Checo and take points off Max whenever possible. He failed in that this weekend, for whatever reason.
Second, his race craft. The manner in which the Red Bulls breezed past him was frankly, embarrassing. Not only did he not defend at all he fell off the track the second Max got within striking distance. Max lost absolutely zero time behind him. Even 5 seconds resistance, just a lap or two, anything, could have made the difference between Max having the time to catch Lewis. Fighting behind a car is the best way to ruin your tires and rhythm. I think that was really difficult to excuse from Valtteri.
Lastly, the whining on the radio. It's a team sport. After Mercedes told Lewis this ones on us, he didn't say a word more, he accepted that. There's no benefit to how Valtteri threw his toys out the cockpit and chewed the team out on air. The way that race went for him was as much his fault as anyone else's and he looks like a fool when he swears and blames everyone else.
Now, to see things from Vatteris objective, it's no doubt that Red Bull were the better package this weekend. They did a great job. As things worked out, they were going to overtake the Mercedes, it was just a question of when. Valtteri finished fourth, a respectable position, and was not left behind in the race.
I just get the feeling that second and fourth should be viewed as a low point by the Mercedes team, whereas it might well have been one of Valtters better races this year. And I continue to maintain, that his standard of racing just isn't good enough for the seat he's in.
Another weekend where Bottas' fortunes at Merceded drop.
Jake899 said:
Another interesting race, great for the neutral and great for the excitement of Formula 1.
It's easy to find faults if you are looking for them. But I have a couple of issues with Bottas' performance this weekend.
The biggest is this: Perez finished ahead of him. Yes Max also beat his rival, but looking at Valtteri specifically, his job is to finish ahead of Checo and take points off Max whenever possible. He failed in that this weekend, for whatever reason.
Second, his race craft. The manner in which the Red Bulls breezed past him was frankly, embarrassing. Not only did he not defend at all he fell off the track the second Max got within striking distance. Max lost absolutely zero time behind him. Even 5 seconds resistance, just a lap or two, anything, could have made the difference between Max having the time to catch Lewis. Fighting behind a car is the best way to ruin your tires and rhythm. I think that was really difficult to excuse from Valtteri.
Lastly, the whining on the radio. It's a team sport. After Mercedes told Lewis this ones on us, he didn't say a word more, he accepted that. There's no benefit to how Valtteri threw his toys out the cockpit and chewed the team out on air. The way that race went for him was as much his fault as anyone else's and he looks like a fool when he swears and blames everyone else.
Now, to see things from Vatteris objective, it's no doubt that Red Bull were the better package this weekend. They did a great job. As things worked out, they were going to overtake the Mercedes, it was just a question of when. Valtteri finished fourth, a respectable position, and was not left behind in the race.
I just get the feeling that second and fourth should be viewed as a low point by the Mercedes team, whereas it might well have been one of Valtters better races this year. And I continue to maintain, that his standard of racing just isn't good enough for the seat he's in.
Another weekend where Bottas' fortunes at Merceded drop.
Good post It's easy to find faults if you are looking for them. But I have a couple of issues with Bottas' performance this weekend.
The biggest is this: Perez finished ahead of him. Yes Max also beat his rival, but looking at Valtteri specifically, his job is to finish ahead of Checo and take points off Max whenever possible. He failed in that this weekend, for whatever reason.
Second, his race craft. The manner in which the Red Bulls breezed past him was frankly, embarrassing. Not only did he not defend at all he fell off the track the second Max got within striking distance. Max lost absolutely zero time behind him. Even 5 seconds resistance, just a lap or two, anything, could have made the difference between Max having the time to catch Lewis. Fighting behind a car is the best way to ruin your tires and rhythm. I think that was really difficult to excuse from Valtteri.
Lastly, the whining on the radio. It's a team sport. After Mercedes told Lewis this ones on us, he didn't say a word more, he accepted that. There's no benefit to how Valtteri threw his toys out the cockpit and chewed the team out on air. The way that race went for him was as much his fault as anyone else's and he looks like a fool when he swears and blames everyone else.
Now, to see things from Vatteris objective, it's no doubt that Red Bull were the better package this weekend. They did a great job. As things worked out, they were going to overtake the Mercedes, it was just a question of when. Valtteri finished fourth, a respectable position, and was not left behind in the race.
I just get the feeling that second and fourth should be viewed as a low point by the Mercedes team, whereas it might well have been one of Valtters better races this year. And I continue to maintain, that his standard of racing just isn't good enough for the seat he's in.
Another weekend where Bottas' fortunes at Merceded drop.
Jake899 said:
Perez finished ahead of him. Yes Max also beat his rival, but looking at Valtteri specifically, his job is to finish ahead of Checo and take points off Max whenever possible. He failed in that this weekend, for whatever reason.
Hamilton's job is to finish ahead of Max. He couldn't achieve that on a similar strategy to Bottas, so why should Bottas be able to beat Perez on an inferior strategy? Jake899 said:
Second, his race craft. The manner in which the Red Bulls breezed past him was frankly, embarrassing. Not only did he not defend at all he fell off the track the second Max got within striking distance. Max lost absolutely zero time behind him. Even 5 seconds resistance, just a lap or two, anything, could have made the difference between Max having the time to catch Lewis. Fighting behind a car is the best way to ruin your tires and rhythm. I think that was really difficult to excuse from Valtteri.
I don't recall Verstappen having any issue getting past Hamilton on his worn tyres either. What are either Mercedes drivers supposed to do? If your tyres are shot, they're shot.
Jake899 said:
Lastly, the whining on the radio. It's a team sport.
If they didn't allow whining on the radio, they wouldn't have any drivers left.Jake899 said:
I continue to maintain, that his standard of racing just isn't good enough for the seat he's in.
Another one expecting the driver to turn water into wine......Why do Mercedes not listen to their drivers, both Hamilton and Bottas were telling them early on that the tyres would not last. Hamilton told Mercedes to pit him early so they could get the undercut, next thing you know Verstappen is in the pits for his second set of tyres and both Mercedes drivers were sitting ducks.
Also why did they not pit Bottas at the end and go for the fastest lap as they were miles ahead of 5th place?
I personally think that Mercedes are not used to this sort of pressure and seem to be making mistakes in their strategy that they would have got away with in other years. They had done the two stop thing to Red Bull in the past so not as if they couldn't see what was going to happen.
Mercedes are going to see the constructors championship slip away from them if Perez keeps finishing ahead of Bottas.
Also why did they not pit Bottas at the end and go for the fastest lap as they were miles ahead of 5th place?
I personally think that Mercedes are not used to this sort of pressure and seem to be making mistakes in their strategy that they would have got away with in other years. They had done the two stop thing to Red Bull in the past so not as if they couldn't see what was going to happen.
Mercedes are going to see the constructors championship slip away from them if Perez keeps finishing ahead of Bottas.
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