Official 2021 French Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[suffolk009]

HustleRussell said:

I think this will be a Mercedes return to form.

Maybe with that and with Perez clicking with the Red Bull, we’ll get our first look at 2 Mercedes drivers vs. 2 Red Bull drivers.

McLaren return to the position of best of the rest.

Who has Bottas car this weekend?

[TheDeuce]

HustleRussell said:

TheDeuce said:

I suppose there must be a French equivalent of this forum - I wonder what they think about this disgrace of a circuit..?

As a nation, between Paul Ricard and Renault, F1 hasn't served them very well in recent years

First French driver to win a race since ‘96 last year

Fair enough..

Not much for quarter of a century but admittedly better than nothing.

[TheDeuce]

garyhun said:

HustleRussell said:

I think this will be a Mercedes return to form.

Maybe with that and with Perez clicking with the Red Bull, we’ll get our first look at 2 Mercedes drivers vs. 2 Red Bull drivers.

McLaren return to the position of best of the rest.

I agree apart from the fact that I have very limited confidence in Bottas doing the business. Hope to be proved wrong.

This should be safely a Merc weekend. Agree Bottas seems to be off form this season, but he still qualifies well and assuming he qualifies front row, the rest should be a foregone conclusion.

That said... the tyres so far this season have had a far bigger impact on points than the very slim performance delta from Mercedes to RB. The tyres might well be tricky and even unpredictable (again..) here - so that could scupper whatever sensible predictions might be made ahead of the race.

[HustleRussell]

TheDeuce said:

HustleRussell said:

TheDeuce said:

I suppose there must be a French equivalent of this forum - I wonder what they think about this disgrace of a circuit..?

As a nation, between Paul Ricard and Renault, F1 hasn't served them very well in recent years

First French driver to win a race since ‘96 last year

Fair enough..

Not much for quarter of a century but admittedly better than nothing.

Eight championship wins powered by Renault since and including ‘96, two of which were for the Renault works team

[Eric Mc]

The fact that the French GP was missing from the calendar for many years can't have helped. This was pretty disgraceful since the very sport and even the term "Grand Prix" originated in France.

The sad thing is that they chose to use the most hideous of circuits for the return. I don't remember Paul Ricard being so awful in its earlier guises.

[thegreenhell]

HustleRussell said:

TheDeuce said:

HustleRussell said:

TheDeuce said:

I suppose there must be a French equivalent of this forum - I wonder what they think about this disgrace of a circuit..?

As a nation, between Paul Ricard and Renault, F1 hasn't served them very well in recent years

First French driver to win a race since ‘96 last year

Fair enough..

Not much for quarter of a century but admittedly better than nothing.

Eight championship wins powered by Renault since and including ‘96, two of which were for the Renault works team

But apart from all that, what have the French ever done for F1?

[TheDeuce]

thegreenhell said:

HustleRussell said:

TheDeuce said:

HustleRussell said:

TheDeuce said:

I suppose there must be a French equivalent of this forum - I wonder what they think about this disgrace of a circuit..?

As a nation, between Paul Ricard and Renault, F1 hasn't served them very well in recent years

First French driver to win a race since ‘96 last year

Fair enough..

Not much for quarter of a century but admittedly better than nothing.

Eight championship wins powered by Renault since and including ‘96, two of which were for the Renault works team

But apart from all that, what have the French ever done for F1?

They, and specifically Renault have of course done great things for and in F1.

That doesn't change the fact that this era, the combination of a Renault team that under performed and cost a fortune combined with a the French GP being the least popular on the calendar isn't exactly much to celebrate. We don't have to take anything away from their important history in F1 and GP to acknowledge things in recent years have been a bit crap.

[thegreenhell]

TheDeuce said:

That doesn't change the fact that this era, the combination of a Renault team that under performed and cost a fortune combined with a the French GP being the least popular on the calendar isn't exactly much to celebrate. We don't have to take anything away from their important history in F1 and GP to acknowledge things in recent years have been a bit crap.

I don't disagree, but things have been crap for everybody in the hybrid era, except Mercedes.

Engine	Wins
Mercedes	106
Ferrari	16
Renault	12
Honda	9

[kiseca]

thegreenhell said:

TheDeuce said:

That doesn't change the fact that this era, the combination of a Renault team that under performed and cost a fortune combined with a the French GP being the least popular on the calendar isn't exactly much to celebrate. We don't have to take anything away from their important history in F1 and GP to acknowledge things in recent years have been a bit crap.

I don't disagree, but things have been crap for everybody in the hybrid era, except Mercedes.

Engine	Wins
Mercedes	106
Ferrari	16
Renault	12
Honda	9

I don't think 9 wins for Honda is crap, given they only joined in 2015 with Mercedes already having shown they had a massive engine advantage at the time. The only crap thing is, as usual, they are pulling out while on the brink of success.

[TheDeuce]

thegreenhell said:

TheDeuce said:

That doesn't change the fact that this era, the combination of a Renault team that under performed and cost a fortune combined with a the French GP being the least popular on the calendar isn't exactly much to celebrate. We don't have to take anything away from their important history in F1 and GP to acknowledge things in recent years have been a bit crap.

I don't disagree, but things have been crap for everybody in the hybrid era, except Mercedes.

Engine	Wins
Mercedes	106
Ferrari	16
Renault	12
Honda	9

That's true - but beyond those stats Renault just haven't looked great this era - imo not as good as they should have done given their budget level and the benefit of developing their own PU. They got beaten by their own PU by a British team which I'm willing to guess isn't considered amazing PR in France! Then that same team ditched their PU leaving them with no customers.

Just been a bit lackluster and it's hard to not conclude that somewhere along the line they've wasted a colossal amount of money whereas others have clearly achieved more with less.

But I'm not here to pick on Renault. Mostly France in F1 these days is a bit sad due to Paul Ricard. Surely as an originator of GP France should have a epic and beloved circuit that's a highlight on the calendar!? Not a blight on the calendar..

[Eric Mc]

TheDeuce said:

They, and specifically Renault have of course done great things for and in F1.

That doesn't change the fact that this era, the combination of a Renault team that under performed and cost a fortune combined with a the French GP being the least popular on the calendar isn't exactly much to celebrate. We don't have to take anything away from their important history in F1 and GP to acknowledge things in recent years have been a bit crap.

I'd use the word "dire".

The last decent French GP must be around 30 years ago. When was the last time they were on the calendar before the return to this dump?

[TheDeuce]

kiseca said:

thegreenhell said:

TheDeuce said:

That doesn't change the fact that this era, the combination of a Renault team that under performed and cost a fortune combined with a the French GP being the least popular on the calendar isn't exactly much to celebrate. We don't have to take anything away from their important history in F1 and GP to acknowledge things in recent years have been a bit crap.

I don't disagree, but things have been crap for everybody in the hybrid era, except Mercedes.

Engine	Wins
Mercedes	106
Ferrari	16
Renault	12
Honda	9

I don't think 9 wins for Honda is crap, given they only joined in 2015 with Mercedes already having shown they had a massive engine advantage at the time. The only crap thing is, as usual, they are pulling out while on the brink of success.

I did have a look for % of PU wins this era but couldn't find anything and I'm too lazy to work it out. I'd assume that % wise Honda have quite comfortably beaten Renault though..?

[Mark-C]

Eric Mc said:

TheDeuce said:

They, and specifically Renault have of course done great things for and in F1.

That doesn't change the fact that this era, the combination of a Renault team that under performed and cost a fortune combined with a the French GP being the least popular on the calendar isn't exactly much to celebrate. We don't have to take anything away from their important history in F1 and GP to acknowledge things in recent years have been a bit crap.

I'd use the word "dire".

The last decent French GP must be around 30 years ago. When was the last time they were on the calendar before the return to this dump?

It was Magny-Cours until 2008 but I can't think of any interesting ones from there ...

[Eric Mc]

Magny-Cours wasn't great, I have to admit.

I'd love to see a race at the old Rheims circuit.

[Mr_Thyroid]

Mark-C said:

It was Magny-Cours until 2008 but I can't think of any interesting ones from there ...

I can't actually remember how good they were but '99 and 2000 may be worth a re-watch.

'99 was a dry-wet race won by Frentzen.
And in 2000 Coulthard passed Schumacher on track for the win and included his famous finger waving.

[kiseca]

TheDeuce said:

kiseca said:

thegreenhell said:

TheDeuce said:

That doesn't change the fact that this era, the combination of a Renault team that under performed and cost a fortune combined with a the French GP being the least popular on the calendar isn't exactly much to celebrate. We don't have to take anything away from their important history in F1 and GP to acknowledge things in recent years have been a bit crap.

I don't disagree, but things have been crap for everybody in the hybrid era, except Mercedes.

Engine	Wins
Mercedes	106
Ferrari	16
Renault	12
Honda	9

I don't think 9 wins for Honda is crap, given they only joined in 2015 with Mercedes already having shown they had a massive engine advantage at the time. The only crap thing is, as usual, they are pulling out while on the brink of success.

I did have a look for % of PU wins this era but couldn't find anything and I'm too lazy to work it out. I'd assume that % wise Honda have quite comfortably beaten Renault though..?

I don't know for sure, but Honda have one season less, and they were absolutely nowhere in their first two seasons. They've improved massively whereas Renault engines seem to be in exactly the same place now as they were in 2014 relative to Merc.

But Renault have, in some way or another, been in F1 almost continuously since 1977. This is a bad patch for them but they've given us an awful lot as well as a lot of awful... Some gorgeous cars that nearly made it, some gorgeous cars that were terrible, and some brilliant engines in the back of some really good cars. They're a huge part of Formula 1 history.

Also I believe it's not the first time they've been beaten by a customer team with their own engine. In 1985 they were beaten by both Lotus and Ligier.

[thegreenhell]

Eric Mc said:

Magny-Cours wasn't great, I have to admit.

I'd love to see a race at the old Rheims circuit.

Some of the old road has been reclaimed by farmers' fields, and they'd have to negotiate a couple of extra roundabouts too.

Rouen-les-Essarts has had an Autoroute built over the top of it, destroying part of the circuit, but it's still driveable largely as it was apart from that. Even the old cobbled hairpin was still there last time I went.

Clermont Ferrand is still mostly intact, with the modern Charade circuit utilising some of it, and most of the old roads outside still there, but there's an extra roundabout at the new circuit entrance and new road junction where they built a road to bypass the circuit. If they removed a fence and some concrete Jersey barriers then you could drive the whole old circuit pretty much unchanged from period, apart from that roundabout.

None of these old circuits would be suitable for the modern cars, of course.

[TheDeuce]

thegreenhell said:

Eric Mc said:

Magny-Cours wasn't great, I have to admit.

I'd love to see a race at the old Rheims circuit.

Some of the old road has been reclaimed by farmers' fields, and they'd have to negotiate a couple of extra roundabouts too.

Rouen-les-Essarts has had an Autoroute built over the top of it, destroying part of the circuit, but it's still driveable largely as it was apart from that. Even the old cobbled hairpin was still there last time I went.

Clermont Ferrand is still mostly intact, with the modern Charade circuit utilising some of it, and most of the old roads outside still there, but there's an extra roundabout at the new circuit entrance and new road junction where they built a road to bypass the circuit. If they removed a fence and some concrete Jersey barriers then you could drive the whole old circuit pretty much unchanged from period, apart from that roundabout.

None of these old circuits would be suitable for the modern cars, of course.

They need a new purpose built circuit. Doesn't seem like a lot to ask of a country with such deep roots in motorsport - they then need to resist the temptation to paint the entire circuit in the colours of their flag..

Seriously though, the French GP should be a highlight - something we look forwards to at a unique and genuinely impressive venue. Not the tut we have now at a hastily re-purposed vehicle testing facility.

[kiseca]

TheDeuce said:

thegreenhell said:

Eric Mc said:

Magny-Cours wasn't great, I have to admit.

I'd love to see a race at the old Rheims circuit.

Some of the old road has been reclaimed by farmers' fields, and they'd have to negotiate a couple of extra roundabouts too.

Rouen-les-Essarts has had an Autoroute built over the top of it, destroying part of the circuit, but it's still driveable largely as it was apart from that. Even the old cobbled hairpin was still there last time I went.

Clermont Ferrand is still mostly intact, with the modern Charade circuit utilising some of it, and most of the old roads outside still there, but there's an extra roundabout at the new circuit entrance and new road junction where they built a road to bypass the circuit. If they removed a fence and some concrete Jersey barriers then you could drive the whole old circuit pretty much unchanged from period, apart from that roundabout.

None of these old circuits would be suitable for the modern cars, of course.

They need a new purpose built circuit. Doesn't seem like a lot to ask of a country with such deep roots in motorsport - they then need to resist the temptation to paint the entire circuit in the colours of their flag..

Seriously though, the French GP should be a highlight - something we look forwards to at a unique and genuinely impressive venue. Not the tut we have now at a hastily re-purposed vehicle testing facility.

Paul Ricard looks like it's just a massive block of tarmac. It can't be too difficult to paint an outline of a decent circuit on it.... compared to creating something new at least. Of course you can't do anything to make that hilly, and hilly seems to help make circuits interesting, but maybe the shape isn't the problem, maybe it actually is just too much tarmac so none of the corners are really challenging because if you mess it up you just go off road line a little. So the drivers can defend easier because they have an escape route and they aren't trying to avoid kerbs or barriers or bumps, and when an overtake fails, for us viewers it's unexciting because the car just runs wide, carries on at close to full pace and rejoins maybe a place or two back. Maybe it's boring because it's too forgiving?

Plus, all those blue stripes just look terrible.

Edited by kiseca on Monday 14th June 16:24

[kiseca]

kiseca said:

Paul Ricard looks like it's just a massive block of tarmac. It can't be too difficult to paint an outline of a decent circuit on it.... compared to creating something new at least. Of course you can't do anything to make that hilly, and hilly seems to help make circuits interesting, but maybe the shape isn't the problem, maybe it actually is just too much tarmac so none of the corners are really challenging because if you mess it up you just go off road line a little. So the drivers can defend easier because they have an escape route and they aren't trying to avoid kerbs or barriers or bumps, and when an overtake fails, for us viewers it's unexciting because the car just runs wide, carries on at close to full pace and rejoins maybe a place or two back. Maybe it's boring because it's too forgiving?

Plus, all those blue stripes just look terrible.

Edited by kiseca on Monday 14th June 16:24

Quoting myself...


Just looked on Google Maps, changed my mind a bit. Actually the shape of the plot does look like it pretty much forces the shape of the circuit overall. Can add different corners but that long straight (the Mistral?) looks like it has to be in the design regardless of anything else, then you have to turn around at one wide end, with room to add a few wrinkles into the outline, and a tighter turn at the other end to get you back on to the straight.