Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?
Discussion
Sandpit Steve said:
ch37 said:
Sophia Floersch has just announced she has an F3 seat for next season, she hasn't driven single seaters for a few years. I still can't quite figure out how Chadwick hasn't ended up on that ladder.
Great news for Sophia, after a few years in sportscars, and good to see at least one lady on the F3 grid. She was a critic of the W Series when it launched, suggesting that seggregated racing was unlikely to get a lady into F1, and preferring to do her own thing.
She would have benefited from the experience, exposure and funding, and WSeries would have benefited from having someone to closely challenge Chadwick.
It would have generated an interesting contest - Eng v Ger
But, in fairness, as I understand it, neither of them have the unlimited funding that many of the male drivers have had in F3/F2/F1, so full crédit to them for what they are doing.
Neither are likely to be right at the front, but top 10s at this stage will be a good achievement.
How exactly did she shoot herself in the foot? She was competing in better series instead. She wanted to race against the boys not just a weak grid of women. She was racing in F3 Euro, FREC and F3 instead, making her debuts in them in 2018, 2019 & 2020. Series in which W Series drivers are just entering this year.
W Series may have gained from it but Sophia certainly would not have. Nor would Jamie, she wouldn't have been the golden girl with the fake excuse of a lack of funding to hold her back. Sophia's results in FREC were better than Jamie's the year after so she would have been the victor in the series. She didn't have prior experience in the car that Jamie had either.
I find it funny that people class Sophia as being lucky when it comes to funding, as if she is the one with the loaded parents, has won $1.5m in prize money in an easy series and has the financial backing of a F1 driver programme.
W Series may have gained from it but Sophia certainly would not have. Nor would Jamie, she wouldn't have been the golden girl with the fake excuse of a lack of funding to hold her back. Sophia's results in FREC were better than Jamie's the year after so she would have been the victor in the series. She didn't have prior experience in the car that Jamie had either.
I find it funny that people class Sophia as being lucky when it comes to funding, as if she is the one with the loaded parents, has won $1.5m in prize money in an easy series and has the financial backing of a F1 driver programme.
Peacockantony said:
How exactly did she shoot herself in the foot? She was competing in better series instead. She wanted to race against the boys not just a weak grid of women. She was racing in F3 Euro, FREC and F3 instead, making her debuts in them in 2018, 2019 & 2020. Series in which W Series drivers are just entering this year.
W Series may have gained from it but Sophia certainly would not have. Nor would Jamie, she wouldn't have been the golden girl with the fake excuse of a lack of funding to hold her back. Sophia's results in FREC were better than Jamie's the year after so she would have been the victor in the series. She didn't have prior experience in the car that Jamie had either.
I find it funny that people class Sophia as being lucky when it comes to funding, as if she is the one with the loaded parents, has won $1.5m in prize money in an easy series and has the financial backing of a F1 driver programme.
Sophia has done a year in F3 ... it wasn't great for all sorts of reasons. She then moved herself into something else (Sportscars) and proven herself to a certain extent. She hasn't blown anyone away but she is a solid driver in an LMP2 car. She has used that to get back into F3 hopefully on a more competitive footing.W Series may have gained from it but Sophia certainly would not have. Nor would Jamie, she wouldn't have been the golden girl with the fake excuse of a lack of funding to hold her back. Sophia's results in FREC were better than Jamie's the year after so she would have been the victor in the series. She didn't have prior experience in the car that Jamie had either.
I find it funny that people class Sophia as being lucky when it comes to funding, as if she is the one with the loaded parents, has won $1.5m in prize money in an easy series and has the financial backing of a F1 driver programme.
Jamie is effectively trying to find her own but different route back up the ladder. W Series has been great for exposure but not helped her in terms of getting to F3 ... I hope she has some success but am surprised she hasn't taken the Sportscar route - as commented above that's probably for commercial reasons.
Lilou Wadoux is another one working the Sportscar route - she finished 3rd in her second Alpine season and then switched to LMP2 and looked OK there. She is taking what looks like a step backwards from LMP2 to GTE this year but is doing so as a factory Ferrari driver. She is also the only woman to have driven a top class prototype recently having driven a Toyota GR10.
Joey Deacon said:
RB Will said:
These days, generally if you haven't made to F1 by about 25 years old you are past it and not going to.
Shhhh, don't tell Nyck de Vries that.Damon Hill was 33 when he first drove in a GP.
They also have to be strong, particularly the neck muscles because of the G Forces involved.
https://flowracers.com/blog/why-do-f1-drivers-have...
https://www.elitewear.co.uk/blogs/news
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/30864-formula-...
https://flowracers.com/blog/why-do-f1-drivers-have...
https://www.elitewear.co.uk/blogs/news
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/30864-formula-...
Mark-C said:
Peacockantony said:
How exactly did she shoot herself in the foot? She was competing in better series instead. She wanted to race against the boys not just a weak grid of women. She was racing in F3 Euro, FREC and F3 instead, making her debuts in them in 2018, 2019 & 2020. Series in which W Series drivers are just entering this year.
W Series may have gained from it but Sophia certainly would not have. Nor would Jamie, she wouldn't have been the golden girl with the fake excuse of a lack of funding to hold her back. Sophia's results in FREC were better than Jamie's the year after so she would have been the victor in the series. She didn't have prior experience in the car that Jamie had either.
I find it funny that people class Sophia as being lucky when it comes to funding, as if she is the one with the loaded parents, has won $1.5m in prize money in an easy series and has the financial backing of a F1 driver programme.
Sophia has done a year in F3 ... it wasn't great for all sorts of reasons. She then moved herself into something else (Sportscars) and proven herself to a certain extent. She hasn't blown anyone away but she is a solid driver in an LMP2 car. She has used that to get back into F3 hopefully on a more competitive footing.W Series may have gained from it but Sophia certainly would not have. Nor would Jamie, she wouldn't have been the golden girl with the fake excuse of a lack of funding to hold her back. Sophia's results in FREC were better than Jamie's the year after so she would have been the victor in the series. She didn't have prior experience in the car that Jamie had either.
I find it funny that people class Sophia as being lucky when it comes to funding, as if she is the one with the loaded parents, has won $1.5m in prize money in an easy series and has the financial backing of a F1 driver programme.
Jamie is effectively trying to find her own but different route back up the ladder. W Series has been great for exposure but not helped her in terms of getting to F3 ... I hope she has some success but am surprised she hasn't taken the Sportscar route - as commented above that's probably for commercial reasons.
Jamie could have moved up to F3 after years of winning a lower formula... But decided it was better to buy a house with the career money already accumulated £££ and then move to a steadily paid racing series in the States. She could have moved to F3 even if she expected to do poorly, then used that experience to work on improving herself further as a racer - which appears (we hope!) to be the route Sophia has taken.
Neither are 'wrong' in their approach, ambition or what they prioritise in their life. But I do think there is an identifiable attitude difference between the two.
Anyway, glad to hear Sophia is returning, it's one thing to not get overly excited about a woman in F1 anytime soon, but we should at least have women present in the lowest rung of the entry formula - how are women supposed to identify what they need to work on to beat the men that are currently unbeatable, without racing against them? Even if doing so reveals their own current ability is not a match - you can't beat that situation without experiencing it and sensing the differences of attitude/approach. Learn by failing, etc.
I have no issue with either of them, or anyone before, simply neither are good enough to get much higher than the lower echelons of single-seater motorsport.
there is nothing wrong with that, to get that far is amazing, it is probably further than 90% of any race drivers get, and they will have taken advantage of their gender no doubt to get further, and again there is nothing wring with that it has happened for a long time.
I do get annoyed when people talk about physical issues, I simply feel that is nonsense. Maybe in the final reckoning it might be the difference between a champion and someone very good, but if a woman is determined enough they will find ways to combat it. Talent will be able to combat 99% of that.
there is nothing wrong with that, to get that far is amazing, it is probably further than 90% of any race drivers get, and they will have taken advantage of their gender no doubt to get further, and again there is nothing wring with that it has happened for a long time.
I do get annoyed when people talk about physical issues, I simply feel that is nonsense. Maybe in the final reckoning it might be the difference between a champion and someone very good, but if a woman is determined enough they will find ways to combat it. Talent will be able to combat 99% of that.
F2 and F3 are testing this week at Bahrain. Sophia’s F3 entry the only lady on the list at this stage, although we did see Tatiana Calderon involved in a few F2 races last year.
Sophia is still only 22, it seems like longer ago than 2018 when she first hit the headlines - and not in a good way - at Macau. She’s a lot more experienced now, than she was when last in F3 in 2020.
A good bio https://feederseries.net/2023/02/12/sophia-floersc...
Sophia is still only 22, it seems like longer ago than 2018 when she first hit the headlines - and not in a good way - at Macau. She’s a lot more experienced now, than she was when last in F3 in 2020.
A good bio https://feederseries.net/2023/02/12/sophia-floersc...
Roland Dane’s (of 888 fame) take on the whole ‘Women in F1’ thing.
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/15/rolands-view-...
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/15/rolands-view-...
Sandpit Steve said:
F2 and F3 are testing this week at Bahrain. Sophia’s F3 entry the only lady on the list at this stage, although we did see Tatiana Calderon involved in a few F2 races last year.
Sophia is still only 22, it seems like longer ago than 2018 when she first hit the headlines - and not in a good way - at Macau. She’s a lot more experienced now, than she was when last in F3 in 2020.
A good bio https://feederseries.net/2023/02/12/sophia-floersc...
Fair play to her for chasing the single seater dream whilst she is still young enough to do so, her results already in Endurance racing suggest she could have a long and very successful career at the top end of that, but there is no harm in chasing 'bigger' dreams for now.Sophia is still only 22, it seems like longer ago than 2018 when she first hit the headlines - and not in a good way - at Macau. She’s a lot more experienced now, than she was when last in F3 in 2020.
A good bio https://feederseries.net/2023/02/12/sophia-floersc...
Dan BSCS said:
Roland Dane’s (of 888 fame) take on the whole ‘Women in F1’ thing.
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/15/rolands-view-...
A good piece from the perspective of funding women in mixed series, for which we have seen good arguments here on both sides. https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/15/rolands-view-...
The one big elephant in the room being that Chloe Chambers, the young lady who just won a sprint race in Oceania Formula Regional and was the starting point for his piece, spent last year as Jamie’s team-mate in W Series! I had to read the piece three times, just to make sure he’d forgotten to mention it.
Sandpit Steve said:
Dan BSCS said:
Roland Dane’s (of 888 fame) take on the whole ‘Women in F1’ thing.
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/15/rolands-view-...
A good piece from the perspective of funding women in mixed series, for which we have seen good arguments here on both sides. https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/15/rolands-view-...
The one big elephant in the room being that Chloe Chambers, the young lady who just won a sprint race in Oceania Formula Regional and was the starting point for his piece, spent last year as Jamie’s team-mate in W Series! I had to read the piece three times, just to make sure he’d forgotten to mention it.
I think we talked about this before, I believe there is only really also sailing but only in a few categories where men and women compete equally.
And the staggering stat there is that in stuff linked to horses, (other than racing where it is becoming more equal but slowly after only recent changes) over 75 % of people doing it are women, so obviously the medal hauls and wins are largely female. But men still compete and win also.
What is the difference, drive anywhere in this country and it's easy, see a horse box, who is driving/riding, invariably a woman, so the pool of talent is vast, as it probably is the other way in car racing.
I have said before and say again, I have witnessed female domination in lower formulas of racing, hard racing where full contact is encourage and have seen women utterly dominate men, they were well funded, determined and as aggressive and combative as the young lads, so it is nothing to do with anything but numbers. At the time it felt amazing, overwhelming to see utter domination by 3 or 4 fabulously talented girls racing. And as usual none of them have really carried it on, some still race but the field opens up, or they have siblings where parents move as they did with them, the hits get harder, cars are trickier and more physical to drive (a factor in short oval top level stuff)boys are around and the focus shifts.
W Series almost had that, but the talent was spread thinly and as we know the top talent was nowhere near quick enough to move on. But the idea was fair enough, tons of PR, in the right places, but it became a Chadwick house purchase scheme!
Dane is right, that was not a good idea, back them in series they can work in is, W series would have been better for that, and it should be possible still.
And the staggering stat there is that in stuff linked to horses, (other than racing where it is becoming more equal but slowly after only recent changes) over 75 % of people doing it are women, so obviously the medal hauls and wins are largely female. But men still compete and win also.
What is the difference, drive anywhere in this country and it's easy, see a horse box, who is driving/riding, invariably a woman, so the pool of talent is vast, as it probably is the other way in car racing.
I have said before and say again, I have witnessed female domination in lower formulas of racing, hard racing where full contact is encourage and have seen women utterly dominate men, they were well funded, determined and as aggressive and combative as the young lads, so it is nothing to do with anything but numbers. At the time it felt amazing, overwhelming to see utter domination by 3 or 4 fabulously talented girls racing. And as usual none of them have really carried it on, some still race but the field opens up, or they have siblings where parents move as they did with them, the hits get harder, cars are trickier and more physical to drive (a factor in short oval top level stuff)boys are around and the focus shifts.
W Series almost had that, but the talent was spread thinly and as we know the top talent was nowhere near quick enough to move on. But the idea was fair enough, tons of PR, in the right places, but it became a Chadwick house purchase scheme!
Dane is right, that was not a good idea, back them in series they can work in is, W series would have been better for that, and it should be possible still.
thegreenhell said:
Sophia Floersch has just been signed up to the Alpine F1 Driver Academy, along with six female kart racers.
Ooh interesting, that’s one hell of an incentive for her to get some super licence points in F3. Alpine (and Mercedes) do appear to be doing young driver schemes the right way, in terms of the flow of money…Sandpit Steve said:
thegreenhell said:
Sophia Floersch has just been signed up to the Alpine F1 Driver Academy, along with six female kart racers.
Ooh interesting, that’s one hell of an incentive for her to get some super licence points in F3. Alpine (and Mercedes) do appear to be doing young driver schemes the right way, in terms of the flow of money…
As has been said many times on this thread it is simple, F3 then F2, you shouldn't get signed to an F1 Driver Academy by failing to score a single point in the 2020 F3 championship like Ms Floersch
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 17th February 13:55
Joey Deacon said:
Lets be honest, they will get as close to sitting in an F1 car as the last Renault female test driver, Carmen Jorda, who I am sure was employed due to her racing skills.
As has been said many times on this thread it is simple, F3 then F2, you shouldn't get signed to an F1 Driver Academy by failing to score a single point in the 2020 F3 championship like Ms Floersch
The difference being the flow of money, which is now in the other direction to when Ms Jorda was trying to buy an F1 test, rather than just fluttering her eyelashes. As has been said many times on this thread it is simple, F3 then F2, you shouldn't get signed to an F1 Driver Academy by failing to score a single point in the 2020 F3 championship like Ms Floersch
Alpine backing half a dozen girls in karting is brilliant. It’s very much a numbers game.
Joey Deacon said:
Lets be honest, they will get as close to sitting in an F1 car as the last Renault female test driver, Carmen Jorda, who I am sure was employed due to her racing skills.
[thumbC]https://www.grandprix247.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/1c2df2a0-9b56-46ae-b48c-826939a45ef8.jpg[/thumb]
As has been said many times on this thread it is simple, F3 then F2, you shouldn't get signed to an F1 Driver Academy by failing to score a single point in the 2020 F3 championship like Ms Floersch
There are many drivers in F1 Academies that haven't even made it as far as F3 ... Ferrari have drivers in Formula Renault and Formula 4 as examples.[thumbC]https://www.grandprix247.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/1c2df2a0-9b56-46ae-b48c-826939a45ef8.jpg[/thumb]
As has been said many times on this thread it is simple, F3 then F2, you shouldn't get signed to an F1 Driver Academy by failing to score a single point in the 2020 F3 championship like Ms Floersch
Just started a new thread on the 2023 F1 Academy for young ladies here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I can't help but think it's basically a better idea, better assembled than W series - anyway, head over and offer your thoughts.. Or basically a hundred reasons why it still won't make a difference, if you prefer
I can't help but think it's basically a better idea, better assembled than W series - anyway, head over and offer your thoughts.. Or basically a hundred reasons why it still won't make a difference, if you prefer
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