Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?
Discussion
Durzel said:
Dumb, frothy question - but could excluding the minimum weight requirements for an F1 car if a woman was driving make a big enough difference?
Women are a decent amount lighter than blokes, and F1 cars have (I think) a minimum 800kg weight requirement including the kitted-out driver. Say an average athletic woman is around 20kg lighter than the average athletic guy, that weight saving ought to translate to at least half a second a lap advantage - all things being equal.
Would that be enough to even things out a bit without being objectively unfair?
That's working well for the midget that is Yuki.Women are a decent amount lighter than blokes, and F1 cars have (I think) a minimum 800kg weight requirement including the kitted-out driver. Say an average athletic woman is around 20kg lighter than the average athletic guy, that weight saving ought to translate to at least half a second a lap advantage - all things being equal.
Would that be enough to even things out a bit without being objectively unfair?
The answer is no. Karting weight of driver helps a lot as it's a large % of the total mass.
732NM said:
Durzel said:
Dumb, frothy question - but could excluding the minimum weight requirements for an F1 car if a woman was driving make a big enough difference?
Women are a decent amount lighter than blokes, and F1 cars have (I think) a minimum 800kg weight requirement including the kitted-out driver. Say an average athletic woman is around 20kg lighter than the average athletic guy, that weight saving ought to translate to at least half a second a lap advantage - all things being equal.
Would that be enough to even things out a bit without being objectively unfair?
That's working well for the midget that is Yuki.Women are a decent amount lighter than blokes, and F1 cars have (I think) a minimum 800kg weight requirement including the kitted-out driver. Say an average athletic woman is around 20kg lighter than the average athletic guy, that weight saving ought to translate to at least half a second a lap advantage - all things being equal.
Would that be enough to even things out a bit without being objectively unfair?
The answer is no. Karting weight of driver helps a lot as it's a large % of the total mass.
Driver weight is mostly irrelevant for F1, where there’s a minimum weight of 82kg for a driver and his seat.
I think Yuki’s seat is made of depleted uranium rather than the usual carbon fibre, and Jamie’s seat would be too.
Not sure if she needs to carry extra weight in the LMP2 car though, she might have a few kilos advantage there vs heavier competitors.
I think Yuki’s seat is made of depleted uranium rather than the usual carbon fibre, and Jamie’s seat would be too.
Not sure if she needs to carry extra weight in the LMP2 car though, she might have a few kilos advantage there vs heavier competitors.
If I understand correctly you seem to be suggesting giving a specific advantage only to women drivers, eg lets say 20kg under the mens minimum weight. That would not be a good look - either 'oh those poor ladies need artificial help so they can match the men' or 'she did well to finish 3rd but it's because she's carrying less weight', neither of which would reflect well. It's the pinnacle of motorsport; if you're fast enough you're fast enough.... or not.
Weight will make little or no difference in WEC or ELMS, the big thing in her favour is they use power steering, she is on record as saying she was not strong enough to do race distance in an Indycar due tot he steering after a few tests.
Prototypes are no joke physically, if you are doing a double stint at say Qatar, Brazil, COTA that is over 2 hours in an enclosed car, they do have air con but it never works that well and drivers are often discouraged from using it for obvious reasons.
If she goes to Genesis which seems the likely path she and her team are very wise, they have realised her chances of getting to F1 or Indycar are not straightforward just yet, for physical and other reasons, WEC is the next big thing, she can compete, but as I say to be good in Hypercar you need more than simply keeping out of trouble.
Rossi has found the transition hard and is not on the level of the Pro drivers, he is not far off, but after a few years cannot do the same as them. Jamie is certainly good enough to be in ELMS but would need to make a step to be a driver in a Hypercar I feel, but can she do it, for sure.
Floersche was hanging about looking pretty and modelling at Goodwood, Jamie was doing this...
Prototypes are no joke physically, if you are doing a double stint at say Qatar, Brazil, COTA that is over 2 hours in an enclosed car, they do have air con but it never works that well and drivers are often discouraged from using it for obvious reasons.
If she goes to Genesis which seems the likely path she and her team are very wise, they have realised her chances of getting to F1 or Indycar are not straightforward just yet, for physical and other reasons, WEC is the next big thing, she can compete, but as I say to be good in Hypercar you need more than simply keeping out of trouble.
Rossi has found the transition hard and is not on the level of the Pro drivers, he is not far off, but after a few years cannot do the same as them. Jamie is certainly good enough to be in ELMS but would need to make a step to be a driver in a Hypercar I feel, but can she do it, for sure.
Floersche was hanging about looking pretty and modelling at Goodwood, Jamie was doing this...
KaraK said:
732NM said:
Durzel said:
Dumb, frothy question - but could excluding the minimum weight requirements for an F1 car if a woman was driving make a big enough difference?
Women are a decent amount lighter than blokes, and F1 cars have (I think) a minimum 800kg weight requirement including the kitted-out driver. Say an average athletic woman is around 20kg lighter than the average athletic guy, that weight saving ought to translate to at least half a second a lap advantage - all things being equal.
Would that be enough to even things out a bit without being objectively unfair?
That's working well for the midget that is Yuki.Women are a decent amount lighter than blokes, and F1 cars have (I think) a minimum 800kg weight requirement including the kitted-out driver. Say an average athletic woman is around 20kg lighter than the average athletic guy, that weight saving ought to translate to at least half a second a lap advantage - all things being equal.
Would that be enough to even things out a bit without being objectively unfair?
The answer is no. Karting weight of driver helps a lot as it's a large % of the total mass.
Winning races due to being small Vs having competitive talent isn't exactly a point of pride and it would be an awful way for a female driver to break through.
F1 is totally unsexist, whoever drives best gets the seat - apart from Lance. We all want female drivers, we're waiting. It's on them to deliver if they want it and can achieve it.
Perhaps women can't compete, perhaps one day if that's true we'll understand why. But until then it's an open book. Does it matter either way? Not to me... I can think of a hundred inherent differences between men and women and mostly they're good differences.
I'm very, very happy that women are racing and loving it. Results are lovely, but they stand second to passion imo.
trackdemon said:
If I understand correctly you seem to be suggesting giving a specific advantage only to women drivers, eg lets say 20kg under the mens minimum weight. That would not be a good look - either 'oh those poor ladies need artificial help so they can match the men' or 'she did well to finish 3rd but it's because she's carrying less weight', neither of which would reflect well. It's the pinnacle of motorsport; if you're fast enough you're fast enough.... or not.
Yes, that s exactly what I mean. Shame others got fixated on the minimum weight requirement even though I explicitly said what if women were exempt from this .Yes, it would be an unfair advantage, but at the same time if it made an appreciable difference (again, all things being equal -20kg is predicted to save circa 0.5 sec/lap) it could be a decent incentive to promote female drivers.
Wasn t really a serious question as such, since it would be unfair to the men. But at the same time I thought it could be interesting.
TheDeuce said:
F1 is totally unsexist, whoever drives best gets the seat - apart from Lance. We all want female drivers, we're waiting. It's on them to deliver if they want it and can achieve it.
Could one not argue that the minimum weight requirement disproportionately disfavours women on the basis that they’re all typically lighter than men, at a given level of athleticism?Edited by Durzel on Monday 15th September 22:53
I think in recent times because of people like Jamie, Pulling etc, the science and personal experience is showing that at the elite level there are physical hindrances that mean a female might not be able to match a guy in something like F1 or Indycar, but it is small margins, in time there will be a woman who is prepared to go the extra mile to gain the physical strength, to forego the natural instincts of a woman to have kids etc and pursue that last little piece of strength etc.
Men do have it slightly easier in sport in many ways, no time of the month, child desires etc. But the time will come when a female driver will do this
Men do have it slightly easier in sport in many ways, no time of the month, child desires etc. But the time will come when a female driver will do this
Durzel said:
trackdemon said:
If I understand correctly you seem to be suggesting giving a specific advantage only to women drivers, eg lets say 20kg under the mens minimum weight. That would not be a good look - either 'oh those poor ladies need artificial help so they can match the men' or 'she did well to finish 3rd but it's because she's carrying less weight', neither of which would reflect well. It's the pinnacle of motorsport; if you're fast enough you're fast enough.... or not.
Yes, that s exactly what I mean. Shame others got fixated on the minimum weight requirement even though I explicitly said what if women were exempt from this .Yes, it would be an unfair advantage, but at the same time if it made an appreciable difference (again, all things being equal -20kg is predicted to save circa 0.5 sec/lap) it could be a decent incentive to promote female drivers.
Wasn t really a serious question as such, since it would be unfair to the men. But at the same time I thought it could be interesting.
TheDeuce said:
F1 is totally unsexist, whoever drives best gets the seat - apart from Lance. We all want female drivers, we're waiting. It's on them to deliver if they want it and can achieve it.
Could one not argue that the minimum weight requirement disproportionately disfavours women on the basis that they re all typically lighter than men, at a given level of athleticism?I can see two issues with that idea. The first is that at some point a woman will be good enough for F1, and will have a considerable and unfair advantage as a result.
The second is what many other sports have had to deal with in the past few years, which is how to define “woman” in the first place! That’s a road they really don’t want to go down if they can possibly avoid it.
simonrockman said:
Lily Verstappen for the 2042 season.
Haha yes. MV himself was an exercise in two racing drivers having a baby, now we’re seeing babies born with racing drivers as both parents and grandparents! Some bookie should offer odds on another Verstappen being in F1 by 2045. Did anyone see the posts going round about how Lia Block could be the first female F1 driver? Absolutely laughable, fair play to her but she is there primarily because of her name. There is a severe lack of talent in the Academy and winning a few races in that arena means very little in the real world.
All eyes should be on Abbi Pulling but it seems like the hype around her has died down now she's back racing with all the boys and turning out respectable, but not incredible or special results. Lia, and all the other girls in the academy are a long way behind Abbi, and Jamie for that matter who didn't make it, and won't now at her age.
All eyes should be on Abbi Pulling but it seems like the hype around her has died down now she's back racing with all the boys and turning out respectable, but not incredible or special results. Lia, and all the other girls in the academy are a long way behind Abbi, and Jamie for that matter who didn't make it, and won't now at her age.
Castellet said:
Yes, well done Jamie. Reserve role at this stage, but tested well in the Hypercar and has she a good chance of racing at some point in the season. Also of note is Ella Hakkinen, daughter of Mika, signing as a McLaren junior. She’s only 14 and will get some testing experience next year before going into F4 in ‘27, likely in the F1 Academy and one of the European F4 series. You’d have to think she would be in with a shout of moving up the ladder!
This weekend is the last Academy race of the season, in Vegas, a new track to all of the ladies, with Doriane and Maya fighting it out for the 2025 title.
Sandpit Steve said:
Castellet said:
Yes, well done Jamie. Reserve role at this stage, but tested well in the Hypercar and has she a good chance of racing at some point in the season. Also of note is Ella Hakkinen, daughter of Mika, signing as a McLaren junior. She s only 14 and will get some testing experience next year before going into F4 in 27, likely in the F1 Academy and one of the European F4 series. You d have to think she would be in with a shout of moving up the ladder!
This weekend is the last Academy race of the season, in Vegas, a new track to all of the ladies, with Doriane and Maya fighting it out for the 2025 title.
Interesting about Ella Hakkinen..!!
Sandpit Steve said:
Also of note is Ella Hakkinen, daughter of Mika, signing as a McLaren junior. She s only 14 and will get some testing experience next year before going into F4 in 27, likely in the F1 Academy and one of the European F4 series. You d have to think she would be in with a shout of moving up the ladder!
Ella Hakkinen, Ella Lloyd and Ella Stevens. A job lot of Ellas.I have no issue with this, there needs to be representation at levels other than media etc, I don't follow junior racing enough to know who is quick.
What I do know is that Jamie has basically admitted that an Indycar was too much, she was not really strong enough, even in the feeder series she struggled at times.
Doriane, Lilou Wadoux, Jamie all do great in endurance racing, and even there Jamie is the first to admit she holds the fort as a bronze driver until the guys get in and go quicker.
There is nothing wrong with that, she doesn't make mistakes, throw it away and hasn't done all year, and they have won their class numerous times.
Endurance racing as a bronze or silver level is a real skill, usually left to very rich businessmen, who often let their ego get the better of them, she does not.
What I do know is that Jamie has basically admitted that an Indycar was too much, she was not really strong enough, even in the feeder series she struggled at times.
Doriane, Lilou Wadoux, Jamie all do great in endurance racing, and even there Jamie is the first to admit she holds the fort as a bronze driver until the guys get in and go quicker.
There is nothing wrong with that, she doesn't make mistakes, throw it away and hasn't done all year, and they have won their class numerous times.
Endurance racing as a bronze or silver level is a real skill, usually left to very rich businessmen, who often let their ego get the better of them, she does not.
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