Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?

Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?

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Discussion

Yazza54

16,430 posts

158 months

Thursday 12th May
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JoelH said:
ch37 said:
Nobody is going to fund to that degree in WEC, BTCC, WRC etc as they don't receive even 5% of the exposure that F1 gets and they'd never realistically see any sort of return on the investment.
They wouldn't need to fund to that degree in many other categories such as BTCC and TCR as the costs are a fraction of what FW is. BTCC in particular is very good for brand exposure in terms of outlay. As for the exposure it all depends on the target market/countries. BTCC and Aussie Supercars are way, way above 5% of F1 in their main markets.

I'd be interested to see stats on how much of the F1 audience actually watches the FW races. I expect it's less than the number of people who watch some of the other non-F1 series.
I've never watched a FW race. Don't see the point in it. I know it's supposed to be a woman's racing formula to gain females exposure but the reality is that they were never disallowed or alienated from mainstream Motorsport in the first place. If they were good enough and had the backing they would be welcome.

LukeBrown66

2,245 posts

23 months

Thursday 12th May
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I have no issue with increasing exposure and f=trying to create role models to follow, but the obsession with single seaters is wrong, they are and always have been the most expensive form of racing to get involved in.

I would much rather see a few teams run in multiple disciplines aswell as FW, and LMP3 is not cheap, but nothing like a season in GP3 or F3. A brand new R5 costs about 180 grand, a BTCC car could probably be bought for that price, that would expose top talent to tv audiences, it can also travel to new locations with endurance and rallying. The cost of being "allowed" to compete in GOP meetings would probably easily cover all this.

The focus on single seaters is not helping this initiative at all long term. And this comes from the people who run it, not from fans or likely the girls in it.

leef44

2,774 posts

130 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
Yazza54 said:
I've never watched a FW race. Don't see the point in it. I know it's supposed to be a woman's racing formula to gain females exposure but the reality is that they were never disallowed or alienated from mainstream Motorsport in the first place. If they were good enough and had the backing they would be welcome.
It's a vicious cycle, how do you know whether they are good enough if they don't get the sponsorship to fund the backing?

How are they going to get the sponsorship unless the profile is raised?

So FW came about to raise the profile. If the backing comes and they get the training, maybe we will see one or two come good i.e. get to the level competitive with men.

Yazza54

16,430 posts

158 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
leef44 said:
Yazza54 said:
I've never watched a FW race. Don't see the point in it. I know it's supposed to be a woman's racing formula to gain females exposure but the reality is that they were never disallowed or alienated from mainstream Motorsport in the first place. If they were good enough and had the backing they would be welcome.
It's a vicious cycle, how do you know whether they are good enough if they don't get the sponsorship to fund the backing?

How are they going to get the sponsorship unless the profile is raised?

So FW came about to raise the profile. If the backing comes and they get the training, maybe we will see one or two come good i.e. get to the level competitive with men.
They should start off in more affordable but still competitive forms of Motorsport like everyone else does. Karting, club racing etc.

mat205125

16,506 posts

190 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
Yazza54 said:
They should start off in more affordable but still competitive forms of Motorsport like everyone else does. Karting, club racing etc.
They've nearly all been there and done that.

They're not STARTING their careers in FW

Yazza54

16,430 posts

158 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
mat205125 said:
Yazza54 said:
They should start off in more affordable but still competitive forms of Motorsport like everyone else does. Karting, club racing etc.
They've nearly all been there and done that.

They're not STARTING their careers in FW
I know, and they haven't got to where they need to be by that point

So what does that tell you?

They probably just aren't good enough, like 99% of the blokes aren't!

So FW is basically a lower league of racing (in terms of talent on the grid) to give women's racing a platform, the premise that it is a feeder to anything is completely wrong. If they weren't women the majority of them might not be racing at all, at least not on Sky TV.

TheDeuce

13,917 posts

43 months

Thursday 12th May
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This thread is now making me question FW more than ever - and I was always quite dubious about the principle of introducing segregation into the sport in the first place.

I understand the supposed purpose of FW and I can just about imagine that a young girl watching female racers would get drawn in the same way I did watching the male stars of the day when I was young. So in terms of young ladies being drawn in and inspired... Fine, that can probably work.

But how does that translate in to getting more girls into karts? It might increase the chances of them asking their parents about how to become a racer, but surely most parents that could afford the expense of karting are going to take a broad look at FW as a target and be clever enough to conclude it's basically a dead end.

So in conclusion: FW achieves its goal at getting more girls interested but also, by it's very nature, proves it's a waste of time anyway confused


thegreenhell

10,703 posts

196 months

Thursday 12th May
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Is "FW" the same thing as W Series?

TheDeuce

13,917 posts

43 months

Thursday 12th May
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thegreenhell said:
Is "FW" the same thing as W Series?
Yep. Formula W.. which is what it was referred too widely initially.

Should I use 'WS' instead?


thegreenhell

10,703 posts

196 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
Do what you want, but Formula Woman (FW) is something entirely separate to this, which is and always has been called W Series.

SmoothCriminal

4,197 posts

176 months

Thursday 12th May
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If women have the skill to compete and make it to f1 then they should not be getting special treatment or an easy ride they should start at the beginning like every other male driver competing against males.

What is the point of women racing against each other like Chadwick who then goes into a formula and gets absolutely smashed by males with less experience than her

I really wish someone would put a female into an f1 car so we can be done with this debate.

CharlesElliott

1,450 posts

259 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
Formula Woman was / is a completely different thing, altough when people in this thread say FW or Formula Woman they mean W Series.

Originally a 2004 Mazda RX-8 based competition, it was looking for 'most improved' through the series. A similar thing was run in 2005 / 2006, using Caterhams.

It came back in 2021, and is now using Ginettas I think.


TheDeuce

13,917 posts

43 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
SmoothCriminal said:
If women have the skill to compete and make it to f1 then they should not be getting special treatment or an easy ride they should start at the beginning like every other male driver competing against males.

What is the point of women racing against each other like Chadwick who then goes into a formula and gets absolutely smashed by males with less experience than her

I really wish someone would put a female into an f1 car so we can be done with this debate.
They have put females into F1 cars.

One of them won half a point once: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_Formu...


Yazza54

16,430 posts

158 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
SmoothCriminal said:
If women have the skill to compete and make it to f1 then they should not be getting special treatment or an easy ride they should start at the beginning like every other male driver competing against males.

What is the point of women racing against each other like Chadwick who then goes into a formula and gets absolutely smashed by males with less experience than her

I really wish someone would put a female into an f1 car so we can be done with this debate.
This is how I feel.

I am all for women in top level Motorsport, but formula woman is a marketing farce, and Ultimately, it's positive discrimination.

MontyPythonX

259 posts

93 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
So in conclusion: FW achieves its goal at getting more girls interested but also, by it's very nature, proves it's a waste of time anyway confused
You could argue it's a waste of time for the current generation of female drivers (unfortunately). However it should hopefully pay dividends with the next generation of drivers. With more females competing, they might be able to compete with the males on a level playing field and then they can do away with FW/WS.

TheDeuce

13,917 posts

43 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
MontyPythonX said:
TheDeuce said:
So in conclusion: FW achieves its goal at getting more girls interested but also, by it's very nature, proves it's a waste of time anyway confused
You could argue it's a waste of time for the current generation of female drivers (unfortunately). However it should hopefully pay dividends with the next generation of drivers. With more females competing, they might be able to compete with the males on a level playing field and then they can do away with FW/WS.
That's my point though. It probably get's more interested initially but does that actually carry through to more girls going karting and taking it seriously? Or does their interest simply wane again when they see the current generation of racers are stuck, unable to progress beyond the girls only series.


thegreenhell

10,703 posts

196 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
Isn't it a waste of time for most people, male or female, to try to take up motor racing as a career (as opposed to a fun hobby)? The number who actually make it anywhere near a paying profession are a minuscule proportion of those who start at out at the bottom, and the rest are just pissing in the wind.

This female-only series is a dead end in terms of progression up the motorsport ladder, but it probably represents the most media exposure and potential prize money that any of them will ever see in this sport, so it's easy to see why they would do it even knowing they probably won't ever get to F1. Or maybe even because they know that.

RB Will

7,921 posts

217 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
Another who cant really see the point in the series, but I am aware these days that it is all about the representation.

I know a few females who are into this stuff.
Went to school with a girl who was well into F1, used to chat to her about it. This was about 20 years ago. She came out of college to a job at a local race engineering firm while she studied at uni then got a job at McLaren. She didn't need some scheme to show her a woman could do it and nothing told her she couldn't so she went and did it and beat men to the job on equal footing.

Used to race karts with a couple of sisters who were pretty handy, would podium at most meets, both raced until their mid/ late teens then just went off into normal life. Could have got somewhere if determined.

Another girl / young lady we had on one of our 24hr kart teams, again very handy and well into motorsport. She is still involved but has not progressed beyond amateur karts herself, had a family and all that jazz, looking to get her kids into karting, her hubby is into it too. She has been involved in promoting women in motorsport, had an all female kart team and is part of Motorsport Women which promotes women in all sorts of disciplines.

None of these girls needed a female lead or forceful parent to get them into racing it was just something they liked. I feel these are the sorts of people you will need to get a woman to high level in motorsport, as with the men, you will need someone who is willing to dedicate their life to it.

I have a friend that I had never been beaten by in karts. I stupidly didn't chase my dream so have done nothing more than trackdays, karting and test days. He gave up everything, including moving across the world, to chase the dream and fair play to him he has made it, been successful in a variety of series and is properly living the dream.

On the other hand you have people like my other half's aunt who moan like buggery that even though companies turned up to her daughters career day at school waving all their inclusivity banners etc she had a whinge that if they did not have a bloke and woman on the stand to talk to the boys and girls it wasn't good enough and her daughter just couldn't envisage herself doing any of those jobs.

TheDeuce

13,917 posts

43 months

Thursday 12th May
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
Isn't it a waste of time for most people, male or female, to try to take up motor racing as a career (as opposed to a fun hobby)? The number who actually make it anywhere near a paying profession are a minuscule proportion of those who start at out at the bottom, and the rest are just pissing in the wind.

This female-only series is a dead end in terms of progression up the motorsport ladder, but it probably represents the most media exposure and potential prize money that any of them will ever see in this sport, so it's easy to see why they would do it even knowing they probably won't ever get to F1. Or maybe even because they know that.
It is a waste of time in the sense that most drivers of any sex have a very limited chance of a paying career, I agree. But at least in the main series there is a chance to progress up the formulas if you're good enough to win at each stage. In W series it's all but a foregone conclusion that success still leaves you dead-ended - at least in terms of progression to F1. Obviously some W series winners do go on to pickup a pay check in other series, but they become fairly obscure and it's unlikely to lead to a lasting and particularly profitable career.

what will Chadwick do after year three in W series? go to some random series we have never heard of? Become a resident instructor at a circuit someplace? All perfectly valid but it would be more exciting if she could have some experience is faster open wheel cars than W series and then perhaps slot back in to F3 and do battle there on a more even footing.

Cold

12,803 posts

67 months

Friday 13th May
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
SmoothCriminal said:
If women have the skill to compete and make it to f1 then they should not be getting special treatment or an easy ride they should start at the beginning like every other male driver competing against males.

What is the point of women racing against each other like Chadwick who then goes into a formula and gets absolutely smashed by males with less experience than her

I really wish someone would put a female into an f1 car so we can be done with this debate.
They have put females into F1 cars.

One of them won half a point once: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_Formu...
They have put many, many men into F1 cars too. A huge number of those men didn't even do as well as that.