Official 2021 Saudi Arabia Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
Not the way I like to think, but restarts will be very dangerous for "unintentional" championship deciding collisions - the benefit of having one here is that it is not the last race and therefore will probably have a less severe penalty.
I trust i am wrong and sportsmanship prevails.
I trust i am wrong and sportsmanship prevails.
AW111 said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I've watched that clip twice, and still can't find the hairpiece 
McLaren, Alpine and Ferrari are all match or better than red bull in a straight line, and high speed corners.
Red Bull have an advantage in he low speed corner (one of)!
If red bull can’t use the medium downforce rear wing (problems in Sao Paolo and Doha) and compromise with a spoon wing (not enough downforce), or a barn door they could find themselves in the middle of a midfield DRS train.
Could see a very mixed up podium.
Red Bull have an advantage in he low speed corner (one of)!
If red bull can’t use the medium downforce rear wing (problems in Sao Paolo and Doha) and compromise with a spoon wing (not enough downforce), or a barn door they could find themselves in the middle of a midfield DRS train.
Could see a very mixed up podium.
Deesee said:
McLaren, Alpine and Ferrari are all match or better than red bull in a straight line, and high speed corners.
Red Bull have an advantage in he low speed corner (one of)!
If red bull can’t use the medium downforce rear wing (problems in Sao Paolo and Doha) and compromise with a spoon wing (not enough downforce), or a barn door they could find themselves in the middle of a midfield DRS train.
Could see a very mixed up podium.
It does look a challenging (dangerous?) circuit.- safety cars will mix things up for sure. Red Bull have an advantage in he low speed corner (one of)!
If red bull can’t use the medium downforce rear wing (problems in Sao Paolo and Doha) and compromise with a spoon wing (not enough downforce), or a barn door they could find themselves in the middle of a midfield DRS train.
Could see a very mixed up podium.
RB will surely fix its medium rear wing, but I'd expect Hamilton to win at a canter unless things are really mixed up.
Looking at the speed and the walls, quali will be dramatic too I expect. Especially if the RB is able to push Merc here, that would force them to both push to the limit in Q3..
I can't remeber the last time I looked forward to a middle east GP weekend as much
(EDIT: I can actually, Sakhir outer circuit)
I can't remeber the last time I looked forward to a middle east GP weekend as much
(EDIT: I can actually, Sakhir outer circuit)
Assuming Mercedes run their one-race-old Brazil engine in Hamilton's car, I think he'll be out of reach on this track. Not sure what the best engine Bottas has available is - he must have several which have only done one race, but I get the feeling they're all a bit knackered due to whatever Mercedes were experimenting with in them.
A tight corner either end of the long main straight should make overtaking plausible, although it would take a brave person to try to overtake Max down there with those walls so close.
A tight corner either end of the long main straight should make overtaking plausible, although it would take a brave person to try to overtake Max down there with those walls so close.
Edited by kambites on Friday 26th November 11:34
kambites said:
Assuming Mercedes run their one-race-old Brazil engine in Hamilton's car, I think he'll be out of reach on this track. Not sure what the best engine Bottas has available is - he must have several which have only done one race, but I get the feeling they're all a bit knackered due to whatever Mercedes were experimenting with in them.
A tight corner either end of the long main straight should make overtaking plausible, although it would take a brave person to try to overtake Max down there with those walls so close.
You could give Bottas an engine more powerful than Lewis... he will still drop back. He has given up on this season completely.A tight corner either end of the long main straight should make overtaking plausible, although it would take a brave person to try to overtake Max down there with those walls so close.
Edited by kambites on Friday 26th November 11:34
DrDeAtH said:
kambites said:
Assuming Mercedes run their one-race-old Brazil engine in Hamilton's car, I think he'll be out of reach on this track. Not sure what the best engine Bottas has available is - he must have several which have only done one race, but I get the feeling they're all a bit knackered due to whatever Mercedes were experimenting with in them.
A tight corner either end of the long main straight should make overtaking plausible, although it would take a brave person to try to overtake Max down there with those walls so close.
You could give Bottas an engine more powerful than Lewis... he will still drop back. He has given up on this season completely.A tight corner either end of the long main straight should make overtaking plausible, although it would take a brave person to try to overtake Max down there with those walls so close.
Edited by kambites on Friday 26th November 11:34
Deesee said:
McLaren, Alpine and Ferrari are all match or better than red bull in a straight line, and high speed corners.
Red Bull have an advantage in he low speed corner (one of)!
If red bull can’t use the medium downforce rear wing (problems in Sao Paolo and Doha) and compromise with a spoon wing (not enough downforce), or a barn door they could find themselves in the middle of a midfield DRS train.
Could see a very mixed up podium.
Interesting - when you say better in a straight line I assume you are talking about the speed traps? I always thought to an extent the slower teams were fast in the speed traps as they lacked the ability to add downforce (and drag) so they were still slower overall as they couldn't corner as quickly; the top teams accepting lower straight line speed in return for getting round the twisty bits. Presumably if they find they are vulnerable on the straights, Red bull can just trim off some wing and accept slightly slower cornering (which will still be better than the slower teams)Red Bull have an advantage in he low speed corner (one of)!
If red bull can’t use the medium downforce rear wing (problems in Sao Paolo and Doha) and compromise with a spoon wing (not enough downforce), or a barn door they could find themselves in the middle of a midfield DRS train.
Could see a very mixed up podium.
I think I saw that they have fixed their actuator issue now so shouldn't see the need to reinforce their wing the way they had to in USA, Mexico, Brazil and Qatar. May be a bit faster too.
TheDeuce said:
He's arguably been stronger since it becoming official he is no longer part of the team next season.
Would that be his stellar drive from 17th to 14th in Russia (pre rain), or his brilliant conversion of pole to third place in Brazil? Recovering from 9th to 6th (with a brand new engine) in USA? Pole to 15th in Mexico after dozing off at the start?Was that sarcasm?
Edited by Flooble on Friday 26th November 12:37
Flooble said:
TheDeuce said:
He's arguably been stronger since it becoming official he is no longer part of the team next season.
Would that be his stellar drive from 17th to 14th in Russia (pre rain), or his brilliant conversion of pole to third place in Brazil? Recovering from 9th to 6th (with a brand new engine) in USA? Pole to 15th in Mexico after dozing off at the start?Was that sarcasm?
But yes I can't see any real difference in his driving since he signed for Alfa. He has flashes of form but they are swamped by his mistakes and/or generally lackluster performances.
kambites said:
Flooble said:
TheDeuce said:
He's arguably been stronger since it becoming official he is no longer part of the team next season.
Would that be his stellar drive from 17th to 14th in Russia (pre rain), or his brilliant conversion of pole to third place in Brazil? Recovering from 9th to 6th (with a brand new engine) in USA? Pole to 15th in Mexico after dozing off at the start?Was that sarcasm?
But yes I can't see any real difference in his driving since he signed for Alfa. He has flashes of form but they are swamped by his mistakes and/or generally lackluster performances.
I don't think it's fair to say:
DrDeAtH said:
...He has given up on this season completely.
Because he clearly has not.All this talk of "should be Hamilton's race", "should be a cakewalk for Lewis" etc is making me nervous.
Yes, the Brazil engine seemed to have a healthy amount of straight line poke. And of course Lewis himself is an insanely skilled driver. But there's lots beyond his control that can go wrong, for example...
- Engine s
ts itself during the race (likelihood of this is higher with it running in a higher state of tune)
- Merc make a massive hash of strategy (let's be fair, it wouldn't be the first time)
- Max (or any other car, just seems most likely to be Max!) collides with Lewis
- More clownery from the FIA whips the rug out from under his feet
It's getting really tense now. I'm very much rooting for Lewis, I'd love to see him inch ahead in the WDC and get his 8th title, and all things being fair he has a solid chance of achieving that. But this is F1, where luck works both ways, odd stuff happens at inopportune times, and this time around the competition is both very close and utterly ruthless.
Looking forward to the final races being utter nail biters!
Yes, the Brazil engine seemed to have a healthy amount of straight line poke. And of course Lewis himself is an insanely skilled driver. But there's lots beyond his control that can go wrong, for example...
- Engine s
ts itself during the race (likelihood of this is higher with it running in a higher state of tune)- Merc make a massive hash of strategy (let's be fair, it wouldn't be the first time)
- Max (or any other car, just seems most likely to be Max!) collides with Lewis
- More clownery from the FIA whips the rug out from under his feet
It's getting really tense now. I'm very much rooting for Lewis, I'd love to see him inch ahead in the WDC and get his 8th title, and all things being fair he has a solid chance of achieving that. But this is F1, where luck works both ways, odd stuff happens at inopportune times, and this time around the competition is both very close and utterly ruthless.
Looking forward to the final races being utter nail biters!
Assuming they both make it to the end then the key outcome here is how close to Hamilton is Max at the end of the race. I'm finding it hard to see past the former winning it so Max really needs to be second so they need a clean run with a working rear wing.
Think the race could be chaotic though looking at that circuit preview so I'm just going to sit back and enjoy it
Think the race could be chaotic though looking at that circuit preview so I'm just going to sit back and enjoy it
Jonny_ said:
All this talk of "should be Hamilton's race", "should be a cakewalk for Lewis" etc is making me nervous.
Yes, the Brazil engine seemed to have a healthy amount of straight line poke. And of course Lewis himself is an insanely skilled driver. But there's lots beyond his control that can go wrong, for example...
- Engine sts itself during the race (likelihood of this is higher with it running in a higher state of tune)
- Merc make a massive hash of strategy (let's be fair, it wouldn't be the first time)
- Max (or any other car, just seems most likely to be Max!) collides with Lewis
- More clownery from the FIA whips the rug out from under his feet
It's getting really tense now. I'm very much rooting for Lewis, I'd love to see him inch ahead in the WDC and get his 8th title, and all things being fair he has a solid chance of achieving that. But this is F1, where luck works both ways, odd stuff happens at inopportune times, and this time around the competition is both very close and utterly ruthless.
Looking forward to the final races being utter nail biters!
Yep, every race and even pass attempt between Lewis and Max is exciting and uncomfortable now. The fear of something unfortunate or unavoidable deciding the championship in an instant after an entire season of (mostly) on merit battle.Yes, the Brazil engine seemed to have a healthy amount of straight line poke. And of course Lewis himself is an insanely skilled driver. But there's lots beyond his control that can go wrong, for example...
- Engine s
ts itself during the race (likelihood of this is higher with it running in a higher state of tune)- Merc make a massive hash of strategy (let's be fair, it wouldn't be the first time)
- Max (or any other car, just seems most likely to be Max!) collides with Lewis
- More clownery from the FIA whips the rug out from under his feet
It's getting really tense now. I'm very much rooting for Lewis, I'd love to see him inch ahead in the WDC and get his 8th title, and all things being fair he has a solid chance of achieving that. But this is F1, where luck works both ways, odd stuff happens at inopportune times, and this time around the competition is both very close and utterly ruthless.
Looking forward to the final races being utter nail biters!
Fingers crossed that the final victor this season does get the chance to do it on track and with full merit.
Piginapoke said:
Deesee said:
McLaren, Alpine and Ferrari are all match or better than red bull in a straight line, and high speed corners.
Red Bull have an advantage in he low speed corner (one of)!
If red bull can’t use the medium downforce rear wing (problems in Sao Paolo and Doha) and compromise with a spoon wing (not enough downforce), or a barn door they could find themselves in the middle of a midfield DRS train.
Could see a very mixed up podium.
It does look a challenging (dangerous?) circuit.- safety cars will mix things up for sure. Red Bull have an advantage in he low speed corner (one of)!
If red bull can’t use the medium downforce rear wing (problems in Sao Paolo and Doha) and compromise with a spoon wing (not enough downforce), or a barn door they could find themselves in the middle of a midfield DRS train.
Could see a very mixed up podium.
RB will surely fix its medium rear wing, but I'd expect Hamilton to win at a canter unless things are really mixed up.
I can't see Red Bull being able to fix this preferred wing, they have used Max and Checos, and with the budget caps is it a bit late in the day to make new ones?
Flooble said:
Deesee said:
McLaren, Alpine and Ferrari are all match or better than red bull in a straight line, and high speed corners.
Red Bull have an advantage in he low speed corner (one of)!
If red bull can’t use the medium downforce rear wing (problems in Sao Paolo and Doha) and compromise with a spoon wing (not enough downforce), or a barn door they could find themselves in the middle of a midfield DRS train.
Could see a very mixed up podium.
Interesting - when you say better in a straight line I assume you are talking about the speed traps? I always thought to an extent the slower teams were fast in the speed traps as they lacked the ability to add downforce (and drag) so they were still slower overall as they couldn't corner as quickly; the top teams accepting lower straight line speed in return for getting round the twisty bits. Presumably if they find they are vulnerable on the straights, Red bull can just trim off some wing and accept slightly slower cornering (which will still be better than the slower teams)Red Bull have an advantage in he low speed corner (one of)!
If red bull can’t use the medium downforce rear wing (problems in Sao Paolo and Doha) and compromise with a spoon wing (not enough downforce), or a barn door they could find themselves in the middle of a midfield DRS train.
Could see a very mixed up podium.
I think I saw that they have fixed their actuator issue now so shouldn't see the need to reinforce their wing the way they had to in USA, Mexico, Brazil and Qatar. May be a bit faster too.
Edited by Flooble on Friday 26th November 12:37
With the actuator thats a homologised part, if they have fixed it expect some chatter.
If Red Bull run the spoon wing (think SPA set up for them) that would be the lowest level of wing they could get away with, although FP1/FP2 will be interesting to see what they think they can get away with.
Deesee said:
Piginapoke said:
Deesee said:
McLaren, Alpine and Ferrari are all match or better than red bull in a straight line, and high speed corners.
Red Bull have an advantage in he low speed corner (one of)!
If red bull can’t use the medium downforce rear wing (problems in Sao Paolo and Doha) and compromise with a spoon wing (not enough downforce), or a barn door they could find themselves in the middle of a midfield DRS train.
Could see a very mixed up podium.
It does look a challenging (dangerous?) circuit.- safety cars will mix things up for sure. Red Bull have an advantage in he low speed corner (one of)!
If red bull can’t use the medium downforce rear wing (problems in Sao Paolo and Doha) and compromise with a spoon wing (not enough downforce), or a barn door they could find themselves in the middle of a midfield DRS train.
Could see a very mixed up podium.
RB will surely fix its medium rear wing, but I'd expect Hamilton to win at a canter unless things are really mixed up.
I can't see Red Bull being able to fix this preferred wing, they have used Max and Checos, and with the budget caps is it a bit late in the day to make new ones?
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