Christian Horner
Discussion
732NM said:
She maximised her assets. A man with her record and ability wouldn't have gone anywhere at the professional level. She's not completely crap, but miles off what's required even in sports cars.
Jamie is better, and she's bang average for sports cars.
Horner was similar, not good enough for professional racing, he was smart enough to realise that and change course.
See Zak Brown also, he enjoyed racing, realised driving wasn't going to he his way to his fortune so diverged to what he was good at. It's worked pretty well for him so far.Jamie is better, and she's bang average for sports cars.
Horner was similar, not good enough for professional racing, he was smart enough to realise that and change course.
. Fair point well made. llewop said:
Stuart70 said:
And yet (although he is a dislikeable wazzock) no-one questions his right to engage in the running of teams and a place in the firmament despite being a s
t racing driver (all relatively speaking).
Why does being female bring out the attack monkeys on their keyboards?
Er I think that there are a fair that do. Me included; the toxicity from him and Marko was extremely wearying and the absence of it is refreshing, long may it continue.t racing driver (all relatively speaking). Why does being female bring out the attack monkeys on their keyboards?
plus one. Smarmy pos... He was always so easy to work out with his blindingly obvious media spin, but thought he was clever.Milkyway said:
According to Business Matters magazine, CH has a new job.
London based Oakley Capital have employed him as an advisor for their investments in 'Premium Sports'.
(Best to take it with a pinch of salt... For now.)
Makes sense that he has to find 'the money', ahead of pointing that money at a team that he might somehow be able to buy a chunk of. Or a small % of that chunk.London based Oakley Capital have employed him as an advisor for their investments in 'Premium Sports'.
(Best to take it with a pinch of salt... For now.)
Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 2nd June 22:52
Although apparently Renault held veto powers over the shares in alpine currently for sale, and used it to block any sale that involves CH, so that one's off the table.
The most logical I've heard so far is that he'd end up running a new Chinese entrant. He'd need the capital investment outfit to buy a stake in a new team so those two rumours currently don't conflict with one another.
TheDeuce said:
Makes sense that he has to find 'the money', ahead of pointing that money at a team that he might somehow be able to buy a chunk of. Or a small % of that chunk.
Although apparently Renault held veto powers over the shares in alpine currently for sale, and used it to block any sale that involves CH, so that one's off the table.
The most logical I've heard so far is that he'd end up running a new Chinese entrant. He'd need the capital investment outfit to buy a stake in a new team so those two rumours currently don't conflict with one another.
I believe they only hold the veto until September. Mercedes has also pulled out of the bidding so be interesting to see what happens there.Although apparently Renault held veto powers over the shares in alpine currently for sale, and used it to block any sale that involves CH, so that one's off the table.
The most logical I've heard so far is that he'd end up running a new Chinese entrant. He'd need the capital investment outfit to buy a stake in a new team so those two rumours currently don't conflict with one another.
n3il123 said:
I believe they only hold the veto until September. Mercedes has also pulled out of the bidding so be interesting to see what happens there.
Yes that's correct (as reported at least)What isn't known is what other influence Renault may still maintain over the sale of the stock or first option to buy back themselves.
As an aside, Mercedes/Toto considered the stock grossly overpriced - it gave the team a valuation in excess of 3 billion! That's a lot for a team that has been leeching talent for years and currently represents little value in excess of holding a position on the grid. Whoever buys it (or part of it to hope to control it in the future) is essentially is buying a clean sheet more than a well functioning going concern.
TheDeuce said:
Yes that's correct (as reported at least)
What isn't known is what other influence Renault may still maintain over the sale of the stock or first option to buy back themselves.
As an aside, Mercedes/Toto considered the stock grossly overpriced - it gave the team a valuation in excess of 3 billion! That's a lot for a team that has been leeching talent for years and currently represents little value in excess of holding a position on the grid. Whoever buys it (or part of it to hope to control it in the future) is essentially is buying a clean sheet more than a well functioning going concern.
Just shows what a smart deal buying Williams for £160million was. I suppose the valuations are now all about future revenues and future capital growth. Liberty finally brought some common sense to the F1 Piranha Club.What isn't known is what other influence Renault may still maintain over the sale of the stock or first option to buy back themselves.
As an aside, Mercedes/Toto considered the stock grossly overpriced - it gave the team a valuation in excess of 3 billion! That's a lot for a team that has been leeching talent for years and currently represents little value in excess of holding a position on the grid. Whoever buys it (or part of it to hope to control it in the future) is essentially is buying a clean sheet more than a well functioning going concern.
rdjohn said:
TheDeuce said:
Yes that's correct (as reported at least)
What isn't known is what other influence Renault may still maintain over the sale of the stock or first option to buy back themselves.
As an aside, Mercedes/Toto considered the stock grossly overpriced - it gave the team a valuation in excess of 3 billion! That's a lot for a team that has been leeching talent for years and currently represents little value in excess of holding a position on the grid. Whoever buys it (or part of it to hope to control it in the future) is essentially is buying a clean sheet more than a well functioning going concern.
Just shows what a smart deal buying Williams for £160million was. I suppose the valuations are now all about future revenues and future capital growth. Liberty finally brought some common sense to the F1 Piranha Club.What isn't known is what other influence Renault may still maintain over the sale of the stock or first option to buy back themselves.
As an aside, Mercedes/Toto considered the stock grossly overpriced - it gave the team a valuation in excess of 3 billion! That's a lot for a team that has been leeching talent for years and currently represents little value in excess of holding a position on the grid. Whoever buys it (or part of it to hope to control it in the future) is essentially is buying a clean sheet more than a well functioning going concern.
It also goes to show how poor Claire's judgement was to continue to run the team at the same cost levels as usual, forcing the sale when they ran out of cash, as opposed to sensing the obvious direction Liberty wanted to go in and focussing on surviving long enough for the cost caps to come into effect.
Could she have had better foresight about that? Yes, clearly, Toto and Lawrence invested heavily at the right time to take advantage of the same set of developing circumstances. It was even discussed by us mere mortals on the Williams thread that she needed to move to become more of a Merc customer team and lose some staff as it was so obvious the effect the budget cap would have on team value.
It still winds me up to think about how much she lost in terms of team value for the family! Although on the flip side, by doing so she pretty much proved that it's best she isn't involved anymore.
TheDeuce said:
Yep.
It also goes to show how poor Claire's judgement was to continue to run the team at the same cost levels as usual, forcing the sale when they ran out of cash, as opposed to sensing the obvious direction Liberty wanted to go in and focussing on surviving long enough for the cost caps to come into effect.
Could she have had better foresight about that? Yes, clearly, Toto and Lawrence invested heavily at the right time to take advantage of the same set of developing circumstances. It was even discussed by us mere mortals on the Williams thread that she needed to move to become more of a Merc customer team and lose some staff as it was so obvious the effect the budget cap would have on team value.
It still winds me up to think about how much she lost in terms of team value for the family! Although on the flip side, by doing so she pretty much proved that it's best she isn't involved anymore.
Claire was never in charge, it was Frank being his usual stubborn self. Considering where he started and his previous failures, he and his family did more than alright out of F1, £110 million is not bad for a company on the brink.It also goes to show how poor Claire's judgement was to continue to run the team at the same cost levels as usual, forcing the sale when they ran out of cash, as opposed to sensing the obvious direction Liberty wanted to go in and focussing on surviving long enough for the cost caps to come into effect.
Could she have had better foresight about that? Yes, clearly, Toto and Lawrence invested heavily at the right time to take advantage of the same set of developing circumstances. It was even discussed by us mere mortals on the Williams thread that she needed to move to become more of a Merc customer team and lose some staff as it was so obvious the effect the budget cap would have on team value.
It still winds me up to think about how much she lost in terms of team value for the family! Although on the flip side, by doing so she pretty much proved that it's best she isn't involved anymore.
732NM said:
TheDeuce said:
Yep.
It also goes to show how poor Claire's judgement was to continue to run the team at the same cost levels as usual, forcing the sale when they ran out of cash, as opposed to sensing the obvious direction Liberty wanted to go in and focussing on surviving long enough for the cost caps to come into effect.
Could she have had better foresight about that? Yes, clearly, Toto and Lawrence invested heavily at the right time to take advantage of the same set of developing circumstances. It was even discussed by us mere mortals on the Williams thread that she needed to move to become more of a Merc customer team and lose some staff as it was so obvious the effect the budget cap would have on team value.
It still winds me up to think about how much she lost in terms of team value for the family! Although on the flip side, by doing so she pretty much proved that it's best she isn't involved anymore.
Claire was never in charge, it was Frank being his usual stubborn self. Considering where he started and his previous failures, he and his family did more than alright out of F1, £110 million is not bad for a company on the brink.It also goes to show how poor Claire's judgement was to continue to run the team at the same cost levels as usual, forcing the sale when they ran out of cash, as opposed to sensing the obvious direction Liberty wanted to go in and focussing on surviving long enough for the cost caps to come into effect.
Could she have had better foresight about that? Yes, clearly, Toto and Lawrence invested heavily at the right time to take advantage of the same set of developing circumstances. It was even discussed by us mere mortals on the Williams thread that she needed to move to become more of a Merc customer team and lose some staff as it was so obvious the effect the budget cap would have on team value.
It still winds me up to think about how much she lost in terms of team value for the family! Although on the flip side, by doing so she pretty much proved that it's best she isn't involved anymore.
Still, yes £110m is a good ending point - just not as good as increasing the teams value 10-20x within a single year and still owning it.
But it was, in every way, the families business to run how they saw fit, of course.
Edited by TheDeuce on Wednesday 3rd June 11:43
TheDeuce said:
Makes sense that he has to find 'the money', ahead of pointing that money at a team that he might somehow be able to buy a chunk of. Or a small % of that chunk.
Although apparently Renault held veto powers over the shares in alpine currently for sale, and used it to block any sale that involves CH, so that one's off the table.
The most logical I've heard so far is that he'd end up running a new Chinese entrant. He'd need the capital investment outfit to buy a stake in a new team so those two rumours currently don't conflict with one another.
As I've explained multiple times:Although apparently Renault held veto powers over the shares in alpine currently for sale, and used it to block any sale that involves CH, so that one's off the table.
The most logical I've heard so far is that he'd end up running a new Chinese entrant. He'd need the capital investment outfit to buy a stake in a new team so those two rumours currently don't conflict with one another.
Just as AN was given equity, CH will be given equity.
He won't need to "buy" it, at least not at full market value.
tele_lover said:
TheDeuce said:
Makes sense that he has to find 'the money', ahead of pointing that money at a team that he might somehow be able to buy a chunk of. Or a small % of that chunk.
Although apparently Renault held veto powers over the shares in alpine currently for sale, and used it to block any sale that involves CH, so that one's off the table.
The most logical I've heard so far is that he'd end up running a new Chinese entrant. He'd need the capital investment outfit to buy a stake in a new team so those two rumours currently don't conflict with one another.
As I've explained multiple times:Although apparently Renault held veto powers over the shares in alpine currently for sale, and used it to block any sale that involves CH, so that one's off the table.
The most logical I've heard so far is that he'd end up running a new Chinese entrant. He'd need the capital investment outfit to buy a stake in a new team so those two rumours currently don't conflict with one another.
Just as AN was given equity, CH will be given equity.
He won't need to "buy" it, at least not at full market value.
The dirty little sex pest isn't even in F1 any more and yet here we are still talking about him. Is F1's need for a pantomime villain so great even though he's now employed outside the sport we need to keep dragging him up?
It's a shame Flav's English is so bad (and the fact he struggles to get out what he can past the ridiculous new teeth) as we have the perfect villain within the paddock already. I suppose the team being a bit crap doesn't help either.
It's a shame Flav's English is so bad (and the fact he struggles to get out what he can past the ridiculous new teeth) as we have the perfect villain within the paddock already. I suppose the team being a bit crap doesn't help either.
PRO5T said:
The dirty little sex pest isn't even in F1 any more and yet here we are still talking about him. Is F1's need for a pantomime villain so great even though he's now employed outside the sport we need to keep dragging him up?
Or people are just reacting to the threat that the pest may return 
Although I do attribute some value to pantomime villains in the sport, but CH is so disingenuous which I find really uncomfortable and frustrating. If it was just gittishness I'd be ok, but it's the way he casually assumes that he's so clever that everyone that listens to his BS will go along with it. As an overall package, I think I'm mostly happy he's gone and stays gone.
As for being employed outside of the sport... no. I'm sure he's employed by them specifically in the hope he'll open a door into F1 investment, which is also no doubt why he wanted to be in their employment too. They are the money, he is the enabler - at least that will be the mutual desire.
TheDeuce said:
732NM said:
TheDeuce said:
Yep.
It also goes to show how poor Claire's judgement was to continue to run the team at the same cost levels as usual, forcing the sale when they ran out of cash, as opposed to sensing the obvious direction Liberty wanted to go in and focussing on surviving long enough for the cost caps to come into effect.
Could she have had better foresight about that? Yes, clearly, Toto and Lawrence invested heavily at the right time to take advantage of the same set of developing circumstances. It was even discussed by us mere mortals on the Williams thread that she needed to move to become more of a Merc customer team and lose some staff as it was so obvious the effect the budget cap would have on team value.
It still winds me up to think about how much she lost in terms of team value for the family! Although on the flip side, by doing so she pretty much proved that it's best she isn't involved anymore.
Claire was never in charge, it was Frank being his usual stubborn self. Considering where he started and his previous failures, he and his family did more than alright out of F1, £110 million is not bad for a company on the brink.It also goes to show how poor Claire's judgement was to continue to run the team at the same cost levels as usual, forcing the sale when they ran out of cash, as opposed to sensing the obvious direction Liberty wanted to go in and focussing on surviving long enough for the cost caps to come into effect.
Could she have had better foresight about that? Yes, clearly, Toto and Lawrence invested heavily at the right time to take advantage of the same set of developing circumstances. It was even discussed by us mere mortals on the Williams thread that she needed to move to become more of a Merc customer team and lose some staff as it was so obvious the effect the budget cap would have on team value.
It still winds me up to think about how much she lost in terms of team value for the family! Although on the flip side, by doing so she pretty much proved that it's best she isn't involved anymore.
Still, yes £110m is a good ending point - just not as good as increasing the teams value 10-20x within a single year and still owning it.
But it was, in every way, the families business to run how they saw fit, of course.
Edited by TheDeuce on Wednesday 3rd June 11:43
Foresight is a wonderful thing but I think the accepted version was that if they didn't sell the team when they did, it would simply have folded before the meteoric rise in value that F1 teams have experienced now and they would have ended up with nothing.
As it was, they got a nice retirement, debts cleared and something to show for Frank's life's work.
Williams had a lot of problems from the mid-2010s onwards. It's unfair to put all of that on Claire.
Muzzer79 said:
TheDeuce said:
732NM said:
TheDeuce said:
Yep.
It also goes to show how poor Claire's judgement was to continue to run the team at the same cost levels as usual, forcing the sale when they ran out of cash, as opposed to sensing the obvious direction Liberty wanted to go in and focussing on surviving long enough for the cost caps to come into effect.
Could she have had better foresight about that? Yes, clearly, Toto and Lawrence invested heavily at the right time to take advantage of the same set of developing circumstances. It was even discussed by us mere mortals on the Williams thread that she needed to move to become more of a Merc customer team and lose some staff as it was so obvious the effect the budget cap would have on team value.
It still winds me up to think about how much she lost in terms of team value for the family! Although on the flip side, by doing so she pretty much proved that it's best she isn't involved anymore.
Claire was never in charge, it was Frank being his usual stubborn self. Considering where he started and his previous failures, he and his family did more than alright out of F1, £110 million is not bad for a company on the brink.It also goes to show how poor Claire's judgement was to continue to run the team at the same cost levels as usual, forcing the sale when they ran out of cash, as opposed to sensing the obvious direction Liberty wanted to go in and focussing on surviving long enough for the cost caps to come into effect.
Could she have had better foresight about that? Yes, clearly, Toto and Lawrence invested heavily at the right time to take advantage of the same set of developing circumstances. It was even discussed by us mere mortals on the Williams thread that she needed to move to become more of a Merc customer team and lose some staff as it was so obvious the effect the budget cap would have on team value.
It still winds me up to think about how much she lost in terms of team value for the family! Although on the flip side, by doing so she pretty much proved that it's best she isn't involved anymore.
Still, yes £110m is a good ending point - just not as good as increasing the teams value 10-20x within a single year and still owning it.
But it was, in every way, the families business to run how they saw fit, of course.
Edited by TheDeuce on Wednesday 3rd June 11:43
Foresight is a wonderful thing but I think the accepted version was that if they didn't sell the team when they did, it would simply have folded before the meteoric rise in value that F1 teams have experienced now and they would have ended up with nothing.
As it was, they got a nice retirement, debts cleared and something to show for Frank's life's work.
Williams had a lot of problems from the mid-2010s onwards. It's unfair to put all of that on Claire.
I'm not going to criticise them for their choices as they were their choices to make. But it's still true that a sharp reduction in spending early on (when the caps were known to be coming) would have sustained them until the teams value rocketed. At which point, cashflow issues/debt would be immediately solvable by selling just a small % of equity.
The wholesale of the team was never actually required - although as I said previously, perhaps it is for the best that the team is now under different management.
PhilAsia said:
The sex pest has significantly less leverage than Newey. Smarmily spouting "look" followed by some inane, vapid bs, pales compared to Newey's legacy.
Do you want to stand in front of a lawyer and say that first bit?Horner might not be top rank as a financial wheeler dealer but he absolutely knows racing and probably is one of only three people who could take any team and eventually turn them into winners (and the two others does not include Adrian Newey).
R4EVS said:
PhilAsia said:
The sex pest has significantly less leverage than Newey. Smarmily spouting "look" followed by some inane, vapid bs, pales compared to Newey's legacy.
Do you want to stand in front of a lawyer and say that first bit?Horner might not be top rank as a financial wheeler dealer but he absolutely knows racing and probably is one of only three people who could take any team and eventually turn them into winners (and the two others does not include Adrian Newey).
Edited by Milkyway on Thursday 4th June 11:46
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