Official 2022 Spanish Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Poll: Official 2022 Spanish Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Total Members Polled: 190
Discussion
Always a pity to see team orders deployed so early in the season without the aggravating factor of a developing threat or opportunity from / to another team's driver. Red Bull operating a 'true' 1 & 2 driver approach- not only choosing two drivers who one could expect to naturally shake out in a particular order through a race weekend, but actively kiboshing one driver's deserved shot at the win so that he presents no barrier whatsoever to the other.
That must've been so hard for Checo who has had to wait quite a while for such an opportunity and could've reasonably expected to take the flag with possibly two fewer pitstops and enjoying the benefit of the fully functional Red Bull on this occasion.
Max, as always, very testy indeed on the radio when things aren't going his way- but of course this is just the way he is in heat of the battle and is of course above criticism for this. At least he spared some thanks for Perez when the race was sealed.
If it wasn't Perez' race it was Leclerc's- great shame for him.
A good race even by the standards of your average F1 circuit. By Barcelona standards, very good indeed.
Also loving the looks of the 2022 cars. None of them are munters. It's easy to like the look of the Ferrari but I really like the look of the Mercedes. Not conventionally pretty but purposeful and uncompromising.
That must've been so hard for Checo who has had to wait quite a while for such an opportunity and could've reasonably expected to take the flag with possibly two fewer pitstops and enjoying the benefit of the fully functional Red Bull on this occasion.
Max, as always, very testy indeed on the radio when things aren't going his way- but of course this is just the way he is in heat of the battle and is of course above criticism for this. At least he spared some thanks for Perez when the race was sealed.
If it wasn't Perez' race it was Leclerc's- great shame for him.
A good race even by the standards of your average F1 circuit. By Barcelona standards, very good indeed.
Also loving the looks of the 2022 cars. None of them are munters. It's easy to like the look of the Ferrari but I really like the look of the Mercedes. Not conventionally pretty but purposeful and uncompromising.
Edited by HustleRussell on Monday 23 May 11:43
HustleRussell said:
Always a pity to see team orders deployed so early in the season without the aggravating factor of a developing threat or opportunity from / to another team's driver. Red Bull operating a 'true' 1 & 2 driver approach- not only choosing two drivers who one could expect to naturally shake out in a particular order through a race weekend, but actively kiboshing one driver's deserved shot at the win so that he presents no barrier whatsoever to the other.
That must've been so hard for Checo who has had to wait quite a while for such an opportunity and could've reasonably expected to take the flag with possibly two fewer pitstops and enjoying the benefit of the fully functional Red Bull on this occasion.
Max, as always, very testy indeed on the radio when things aren't going his way- but of course this is just the way he is in heat of the battle and is of course above criticism for this. At least he spared some thanks for Perez when the race was sealed.
If it wasn't Perez' race it was Leclerc's- great shame for him.
A good race even by the standards of your average F1 circuit. By Barcelona standards, very good indeed.
That strategy works until driver one crashes and hurts himself, then driver two is too far behind to win a championship.That must've been so hard for Checo who has had to wait quite a while for such an opportunity and could've reasonably expected to take the flag with possibly two fewer pitstops and enjoying the benefit of the fully functional Red Bull on this occasion.
Max, as always, very testy indeed on the radio when things aren't going his way- but of course this is just the way he is in heat of the battle and is of course above criticism for this. At least he spared some thanks for Perez when the race was sealed.
If it wasn't Perez' race it was Leclerc's- great shame for him.
A good race even by the standards of your average F1 circuit. By Barcelona standards, very good indeed.
HustleRussell said:
Max, as always, very testy indeed on the radio when things aren't going his way- but of course this is just the way he is in heat of the battle and is of course above criticism for this. At least he spared some thanks for Perez when the race was sealed.
Why should he be criticised? It's meant to be the pinnacle of motorsport and the drivers put a lot on the line yet Red Bull can't make a very simple flap actuator work properly. Of course he's going to be frustrated, especially as it looked like it was going to have a big say in the race at that point.Red Bull also massively stiched up Perez yesterday. Not necessarily with the team orders earlier in the race, but later on when they pitted him again to make sure he 'covered Russell' when in reality Russell was never going to be a threat from 25 seconds behind. He could easily have gone to the end and would probably have taken the win.
resolve10 said:
HustleRussell said:
Max, as always, very testy indeed on the radio when things aren't going his way- but of course this is just the way he is in heat of the battle and is of course above criticism for this. At least he spared some thanks for Perez when the race was sealed.
Why should he be criticised? It's meant to be the pinnacle of motorsport and the drivers put a lot on the line yet Red Bull can't make a very simple flap actuator work properly. Of course he's going to be frustrated, especially as it looked like it was going to have a big say in the race at that point.Red Bull also massively stiched up Perez yesterday. Not necessarily with the team orders earlier in the race, but later on when they pitted him again to make sure he 'covered Russell' when in reality Russell was never going to be a threat from 25 seconds behind. He could easily have gone to the end and would probably have taken the win.
HustleRussell said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Jesus wept.
Tyre Smoke said:
Jesus wept.
Tyre Smoke said:
Jesus is truly weeping.
The day of the Spanish grand prix not a good day for Jesus. TedStriker said:
Byker28i said:
Serious question - is it possible to block/ignore forum members on this site so you don't see their posts?Thanks.
A bit of partisan banter is fine, but some just take it to the obsessive level and ruin the thread for others. We've had quite a decent run this time out in terms of after race chat and would be good to keep it that way.
Anyway, my thoughts on the 'gift' - you have Max on a different strategy to Checo, with newer tyres, lapping a second a lap quicker and with a failing DRS system. As team principal you'd have to be mad to let them fight it out - the most likely scenario would be side by side into T1 due to slipstream not DRS then you have a 1-2 that could potentially turn into a DNF-DNF.
Alternative I suppose is to tell Max to stay behind, 'gifting' the win to Checo and preventing your driver from becoming top of the driver's championship.
I honestly can't see a situation in which anything but letting him past safely makes sense.
Anyway, my thoughts on the 'gift' - you have Max on a different strategy to Checo, with newer tyres, lapping a second a lap quicker and with a failing DRS system. As team principal you'd have to be mad to let them fight it out - the most likely scenario would be side by side into T1 due to slipstream not DRS then you have a 1-2 that could potentially turn into a DNF-DNF.
Alternative I suppose is to tell Max to stay behind, 'gifting' the win to Checo and preventing your driver from becoming top of the driver's championship.
I honestly can't see a situation in which anything but letting him past safely makes sense.
Just seen that the drone footage was a trial. Is there anywhere we can say "please god no" to this?
It wouldn't have been too bad had the camera actually stayed level but pretty hard to see whats going on at a 40 degree angle and 200ft away from the action with no zoom. Who the hell thought that would be a good idea?
It wouldn't have been too bad had the camera actually stayed level but pretty hard to see whats going on at a 40 degree angle and 200ft away from the action with no zoom. Who the hell thought that would be a good idea?
Daston said:
Just seen that the drone footage was a trial. Is there anywhere we can say "please god no" to this?
It wouldn't have been too bad had the camera actually stayed level but pretty hard to see whats going on at a 40 degree angle and 200ft away from the action with no zoom. Who the hell thought that would be a good idea?
Liberty I suspect It wouldn't have been too bad had the camera actually stayed level but pretty hard to see whats going on at a 40 degree angle and 200ft away from the action with no zoom. Who the hell thought that would be a good idea?
paulguitar said:
I can understand Red Bull doing what they did. As a spectator, it's disappointing, but we all know that Perez is very unlikely to ever be in a title hunt he's just not at that level consistently.
It was a bit early in the season though. It's just not very pleasant to see so early on, it's effectively them telling Perez that they don't believe he can be a world champion so no point trying. Which might be accurate but generally racing drivers like to believe that they can win! I question the damage to their second drivers motivation.I prefer the Mercedes method of giving an entirely fair hand to both drivers at least until one has a commanding point advantage and is also threatened by another driver from another team. As a result of that fairness both Mercedes drivers in the last several seasons have publicly said they understand and agree when the time does come for one of them to move over for the good of the team.
It goes to show how very different the culture is at RB compared to Merc. Even Ferrari made a public announcement back in 2019 that they would no longer have a 'number 2' driver culture, having spent all season tying themselves in knots trying to work out which driver they favoured. They just ended up with two pissed off drivers that both ignored the pitwall until they gave up medling.
TypeRTim said:
MarkwG said:
TypeRTim said:
They've admitted they're not really in the fight for the WDC and/or WCC this year, at least not on pace.
your point re: reliability is a decent one - but remember how he basically clawed back a huge deficit last year in the WDC because he took an unscheduled engine change with 4 races to go that put him to the back of the pack. Albeit, last year the financial penalties and restrictions aren't the same as this year, granted.
This early in the season, you need as much data as possible. I think the cooling problems was also a 'shadow positive', especially as it was experienced on both cars. They have double the data to learn from and 2 engines to examine to see if there was definite cause/effect.
If lewis had made the radio call after circling for 20 laps way out back without a chance of catching somebody, I would have more sympathy for his position and agree with him more - but it was only a couple of laps after the incident, the race was still so young!
A good driver will challenge his engineer to justify the new plan, particularly if it's counter to what was agreed in the prebrief, or the scenario wasn't expected or discussed. An immature driver will either ignore it or argue with it: Hamilton did neither, he simply offered the alternative to make sure it had been considered & discounted, & then got on with getting the best result from the car that was possible. Good communication, nothing more than that.your point re: reliability is a decent one - but remember how he basically clawed back a huge deficit last year in the WDC because he took an unscheduled engine change with 4 races to go that put him to the back of the pack. Albeit, last year the financial penalties and restrictions aren't the same as this year, granted.
This early in the season, you need as much data as possible. I think the cooling problems was also a 'shadow positive', especially as it was experienced on both cars. They have double the data to learn from and 2 engines to examine to see if there was definite cause/effect.
If lewis had made the radio call after circling for 20 laps way out back without a chance of catching somebody, I would have more sympathy for his position and agree with him more - but it was only a couple of laps after the incident, the race was still so young!
The tone was quite defeatist and depressed, rather than questioning and inquisitive. He wasn't challenging a strategy call from his engineer - he was opting to retire the car.
What he did afterwards, with the strategic freedom, was impressive nonetheless.
TedStriker said:
A bit of partisan banter is fine, but some just take it to the obsessive level and ruin the thread for others. We've had quite a decent run this time out in terms of after race chat and would be good to keep it that way.
Anyway, my thoughts on the 'gift' - you have Max on a different strategy to Checo, with newer tyres, lapping a second a lap quicker and with a failing DRS system. As team principal you'd have to be mad to let them fight it out - the most likely scenario would be side by side into T1 due to slipstream not DRS then you have a 1-2 that could potentially turn into a DNF-DNF.
Alternative I suppose is to tell Max to stay behind, 'gifting' the win to Checo and preventing your driver from becoming top of the driver's championship.
I honestly can't see a situation in which anything but letting him past safely makes sense.
I think far more has been made of having a 1-2 team, as so much has been made of Hamilton and Bottas in the past. We've now seen a "it makes sense for team orders" being applied by people who complained about Hamilton/Bottas team orders before, and others pointing out there's a clear Multi21 team out there. Anyway, my thoughts on the 'gift' - you have Max on a different strategy to Checo, with newer tyres, lapping a second a lap quicker and with a failing DRS system. As team principal you'd have to be mad to let them fight it out - the most likely scenario would be side by side into T1 due to slipstream not DRS then you have a 1-2 that could potentially turn into a DNF-DNF.
Alternative I suppose is to tell Max to stay behind, 'gifting' the win to Checo and preventing your driver from becoming top of the driver's championship.
I honestly can't see a situation in which anything but letting him past safely makes sense.
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