The Official F1 2023 silly season *contains speculation*

[thegreenhell]

DanielSan said:

Fundoreen said:

Inevitable that US based manufacturers would want to be involved in a US owned sport.
Ford seem to have done the ultimate no risk effort. Join the dominant team and pretty much win with the ford badge on a car right away. The cadillac thing sounds a bit pointless now as they will just tool around at the back if Andretti get on the grid.
Wondering how once again Honda have got themselves in a fix. How much know how was transferred to Red bull?
If honda come back it will be back to square one again with a backmarker team. Maybe thats what they want and its just a process to bring another generation of engineers along.
Mind you the new rules were supposed to make everyone more equal. No sigh of it so far.

Would it be the biggest shock if Honda joined Mclaren again? Rumours seem to suggest Honda do want to continue into 26, Mclaren will only progress so far whilst remaining as a customer team. The toxic side of the previous relationship has mostly disappeared and of the teams on the grid they'd surely be the most credible competitive option.

Maybe they could hire Alonso again as well?

[Deesee]

Mark-C said:

Deesee said:

andburg said:

DanielSan said:

Fundoreen said:

Inevitable that US based manufacturers would want to be involved in a US owned sport.
Ford seem to have done the ultimate no risk effort. Join the dominant team and pretty much win with the ford badge on a car right away. The cadillac thing sounds a bit pointless now as they will just tool around at the back if Andretti get on the grid.
Wondering how once again Honda have got themselves in a fix. How much know how was transferred to Red bull?
If honda come back it will be back to square one again with a backmarker team. Maybe thats what they want and its just a process to bring another generation of engineers along.
Mind you the new rules were supposed to make everyone more equal. No sigh of it so far.

Would it be the biggest shock if Honda joined Mclaren again? Rumours seem to suggest Honda do want to continue into 26, Mclaren will only progress so far whilst remaining as a customer team. The toxic side of the previous relationship has mostly disappeared and of the teams on the grid they'd surely be the most credible competitive option.

yes

McLaren are way behind merc, for me they need to be snapping at the heels before they can consider changing PU supplier to become a works team

The McLaren was described to me as a brick on wheels.. much work to be done.

So who would Honda work with then? Nobody really meets the criteria of snapping at the heels of Merc, Red Bull or Ferrari ...

Audi seem happy to pick Sauber

Audi sauber was a great value for money transaction..

For Honda, Williams.. perhaps AT as a works team?

I take it Honda still have the IP and Red Bull build the PU under licence?

[Deesee]

thegreenhell said:

Maybe they could hire Alonso again as well?

he be too busy hawking Strulovitch‘s latest brand while Flávio gets a return to the pit wall & Lance learns “team orders”.

[thegreenhell]

Deesee said:

For Honda, Williams.. perhaps AT as a works team?

I take it Honda still have the IP and Red Bull build the PU under licence?

I think the current PU is still built and maintained by Honda until 2025, so there was no transfer of IP.

RBPT is solely designing the new PU for 2026, independently from anything Honda are doing.

[MissChief]

patmahe said:

KaraK said:

Leithen said:

KaraK said:

Probably not - and likely because there's some distinctions there. Andretti tying in with Cadillac felt like a cynical an attempt to gain credibility for the bid "F1 wants manufacturers so here's the same thing we said before but with a Cadillac badge on it" whereas by any metric Red Bull have already established themselves as a credible F1 team. Ford's purported involvement, whether that's money and a blue oval stuck on a 100% RBPT engine or a full PU developed in house doesn't change that in the slightest, it wouldn't be the first time that RBR did some car manufacturer based sponsorship and I doubt it would be the last.

If only Franz Kafka was alive today and interested in motorsport...

Andretti lack credibility because they haven't already established themselves as a credible F1 team.

Come on, this is pure F1 hypocrisy. By any measure Andretti are the most credible new potential entrant that F1 has seen in years if not decades. Cadillac just handed Porsche (Red Bull's earlier possible badging powertrain collaborator) and Penske their arse in the Daytona 24hrs. It's one rule for the boys and another for everyone else.

Personally I'm not anti-Andretti at all, and I'm sorry if I gave that impression. As a fan I'm all for them joining the grid even as I can see why the teams don't want them to. I'm just suggesting why I think the F1 sphere in general wouldn't treat those two cases as being the same thing.

You're right however in that the way "credibility" bar for existing teams vs new potential entrants works is different - but how could it not be? It's like the difference between someone going for a job interview vs the person who is already employed in a similar role at the company. The interviewee has to jump through all kinds of hoops to try and demonstrate that they will be able to do the job, the employee just turns up does the work and goes home.

If F1 becomes a closed shop it will dwindle and die. If the current teams get their way and Andretti and others aren't allowed to enter then fine, but what happens when there is another global financial crisis or various manufacturers decide being in F1 doesn't sit well with their corporate image or their environmental stance.

As things stand we have 3 elite teams with most of the rest being junior teams of those 3 in some way, can anyone honestly say they expect Haas for example to be battling for championships any time soon? They might come close but ultimately they will be beholden to whoever is supplying their engines or whose driver they are running.

F1 needs to diversify the gene pool or risk becoming a boring stagnant commercial swamp.

Given there are only three engine manufacturers that are also car makers it would really only take one pulling out,E specially if it were Mercedes, for F1 to be in dire straits again. At the last Mercedes board meeting discussing F1 involvement the majority vote to remain was only carried by two or three votes I believe. A change of three board members could see Mercedes out by 2025.

[DanielSan]

Mark-C said:

Deesee said:

andburg said:

DanielSan said:

Fundoreen said:

Inevitable that US based manufacturers would want to be involved in a US owned sport.
Ford seem to have done the ultimate no risk effort. Join the dominant team and pretty much win with the ford badge on a car right away. The cadillac thing sounds a bit pointless now as they will just tool around at the back if Andretti get on the grid.
Wondering how once again Honda have got themselves in a fix. How much know how was transferred to Red bull?
If honda come back it will be back to square one again with a backmarker team. Maybe thats what they want and its just a process to bring another generation of engineers along.
Mind you the new rules were supposed to make everyone more equal. No sigh of it so far.

Would it be the biggest shock if Honda joined Mclaren again? Rumours seem to suggest Honda do want to continue into 26, Mclaren will only progress so far whilst remaining as a customer team. The toxic side of the previous relationship has mostly disappeared and of the teams on the grid they'd surely be the most credible competitive option.

yes

McLaren are way behind merc, for me they need to be snapping at the heels before they can consider changing PU supplier to become a works team

The McLaren was described to me as a brick on wheels.. much work to be done.

So who would Honda work with then? Nobody really meets the criteria of snapping at the heels of Merc, Red Bull or Ferrari ...

Audi seem happy to pick Sauber

Alpha Tauri confirmed with Ford, Aston Martin Honda seems unlikely, Williams are in a far worse state than Mclaren are, if they went with Haas they may as well start a team from scratch. If Honda are going to stay in F1 there aren't any better options unless a new entry pops up that isn't sponsored by GM.

[HustleRussell]

Panthera Team Asia Honda?

[Swampy1982]

[ajprice]

Mixed manufacturers isn't new to Red Bull, Honda must be pretty non plussed by it all.

[TikTak]

Personally I'm glad to see Ford back and mixing some things up right away.

The RB design department for the new car however. Not so much.

[vaud]

TikTak said:

Personally I'm glad to see Ford back and mixing some things up right away.

The RB design department for the new car however. Not so much.

It’s not the new car, just the livery?

[Leithen]

vaud said:

TikTak said:

Personally I'm glad to see Ford back and mixing some things up right away.

The RB design department for the new car however. Not so much.

It’s not the new car, just the livery?

Indeed, and there has been a fair amount off criticsm for that too. I know the sponsors want their show time and Ford especially had something to shout about, but I'd rather they had an extra testing day with the cars being revealed outside their pit garages. Televise the testing properly too. The days when cars embarrassingly exploded on their first outing have pretty much gone.

[andburg]

Mark-C said:

So who would Honda work with then? Nobody really meets the criteria of snapping at the heels of Merc, Red Bull or Ferrari ...

Audi seem happy to pick Sauber

They will work with whoever, they all have a long way to go.

Difference between McLaren and the other non works teams is they’ve been investing heavily and spending a lot pre budget cap.spending while talking about breaking back into the top 3 forever with no real sign of doing it.

Williams/Sauber while further back haven’t had the budget

[Fundoreen]

At worst maybe Honda would supply a new team or better still to come in as a manufacturer of car and chassis.
They must have been aware Red bull were going to bodge an old cortina badge on the car and have still expressed interest in F1.

[DanielSan]

andburg said:

DanielSan said:

Fundoreen said:

Inevitable that US based manufacturers would want to be involved in a US owned sport.
Ford seem to have done the ultimate no risk effort. Join the dominant team and pretty much win with the ford badge on a car right away. The cadillac thing sounds a bit pointless now as they will just tool around at the back if Andretti get on the grid.
Wondering how once again Honda have got themselves in a fix. How much know how was transferred to Red bull?
If honda come back it will be back to square one again with a backmarker team. Maybe thats what they want and its just a process to bring another generation of engineers along.
Mind you the new rules were supposed to make everyone more equal. No sigh of it so far.

Would it be the biggest shock if Honda joined Mclaren again? Rumours seem to suggest Honda do want to continue into 26, Mclaren will only progress so far whilst remaining as a customer team. The toxic side of the previous relationship has mostly disappeared and of the teams on the grid they'd surely be the most credible competitive option.

yes

McLaren are way behind merc, for me they need to be snapping at the heels before they can consider changing PU supplier to become a works team

But would it though..?

https://the-race.com/formula-1/initial-contact-mad...

[Deesee]

DanielSan said:

andburg said:

DanielSan said:

Fundoreen said:

Inevitable that US based manufacturers would want to be involved in a US owned sport.
Ford seem to have done the ultimate no risk effort. Join the dominant team and pretty much win with the ford badge on a car right away. The cadillac thing sounds a bit pointless now as they will just tool around at the back if Andretti get on the grid.
Wondering how once again Honda have got themselves in a fix. How much know how was transferred to Red bull?
If honda come back it will be back to square one again with a backmarker team. Maybe thats what they want and its just a process to bring another generation of engineers along.
Mind you the new rules were supposed to make everyone more equal. No sigh of it so far.

Would it be the biggest shock if Honda joined Mclaren again? Rumours seem to suggest Honda do want to continue into 26, Mclaren will only progress so far whilst remaining as a customer team. The toxic side of the previous relationship has mostly disappeared and of the teams on the grid they'd surely be the most credible competitive option.

yes

McLaren are way behind merc, for me they need to be snapping at the heels before they can consider changing PU supplier to become a works team

But would it though..?

https://the-race.com/formula-1/initial-contact-mad...

The 5yr NDA are just about to expire on the last venture..

Mc are better as McMerc’s

[Fundoreen]

Is there any rush at mclaren? Just see how good the Honda is first.How likely is Norris to stay if you tell him you are taking a gamble?
They need the direct comparison with the Mercedes team as well.

[super7]

Surely Honda will be joining up with Andretti…. They’re partners in Indy?

[Leithen]

I worry about McLaren. Losing Seidl was not good. I like Brown, but have they got the backing they need?

[super7]

super7 said:

Surely Honda will be joining up with Andretti…. They’re partners in Indy?

Maybe not…. Theyre also in cahoots with Chevy, although chevy want to badge an engine