The Official F1 2023 silly season *contains speculation*

The Official F1 2023 silly season *contains speculation*

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Discussion

Deesee

8,331 posts

82 months

Sunday 7th August 2022
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stemll said:
Deesee said:
Oh and let’s be fair..

I had bucket loads of grief a couple of months ago for suggesting that PH fav Alonso was not in favour at Alpine, and Dani Ricc for not doing the numbers at Mc Merc..

This is the silly season discussion thread.. btw..
Except that Alonso was offered a new contract at Alpine, he just chose to go to AM instead but I'd wager he wasn't doing that until SV retired.

Doesn't mean he "wasn't in favour"
A very short contact rather than the 2 + 1 yr he has with team Strulović.

Fred has not really performed to his potential in the car, but to be fair Enstone have not held their part of any bargain by sacking most senior members of the team and generally trying to get to a Hass type level of performance. However definitely not ‘in favour’.

cgt2

7,093 posts

187 months

Sunday 7th August 2022
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Smollet said:
I guess we’ll have to disagree. Talented yes but that was all. He certainly shone in the early days but a bit of a show pony imgo
I think the realisation of how badly he screwed up by walking away from the dominant Williams probably messed his head up and he was a very emotionally driven character. But as I said he didn't have a car anywhere near the pace from 1991-3. If we look at 1994 and 1995 which are the only two seasons he had competitive machinery he was not bad at all, if obviously not on the same level as Schumacher and Hill.

TDK-C60

2,334 posts

29 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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Otmar pretty annoyed then -


https://racingnews365.com/szafnauer-criticises-pia...

His lawyers seem to think this is not over perhaps, but you'd think the FIA would have read his existing contract carefully before saying the Mac one was pukka.

DBSV8

5,958 posts

237 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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TDK-C60 said:
Otmar pretty annoyed then -


https://racingnews365.com/szafnauer-criticises-pia...

His lawyers seem to think this is not over perhaps, but you'd think the FIA would have read his existing contract carefully before saying the Mac one was pukka.
pasty has a face like a smug slapped arse .

not even in F1 and acting like a prima donna , if i was in Alpines position , and he ended up in an Alpine ...... I think Ocons car would magically be more reliable , have better pit stops and faster .............. a mediocre year as a rookie with an attitude can make a world of difference

patmahe

5,744 posts

203 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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cgt2 said:
Smollet said:
I guess we’ll have to disagree. Talented yes but that was all. He certainly shone in the early days but a bit of a show pony imgo
I think the realisation of how badly he screwed up by walking away from the dominant Williams probably messed his head up and he was a very emotionally driven character. But as I said he didn't have a car anywhere near the pace from 1991-3. If we look at 1994 and 1995 which are the only two seasons he had competitive machinery he was not bad at all, if obviously not on the same level as Schumacher and Hill.
I think Alesi was an extremely gifted driver, during his Ferrari days it was the third best car and Alesi just seemed unable to accept that so became frustrated and overdrove thinking he could make up for it's shortcomings and he couldn't, but he came damn close. As others have said, he lost a few wins through Ferrari screw ups.

He seemed to be a bit of a Villeneuve type character, always driving the wheels off what he had and spectacular to watch but with a hot headed temperament, maybe if he'd been able to dial things back a notch and manage tyres etc he'd have improved but I think it was a classic case of right place wrong time. Had he gone to Williams I think we'd be talking about retired world champion Jean Alesi.

patmahe

5,744 posts

203 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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DanielSan said:
Gtom said:
Wasn’t Pascal Wehrlein highly rated as well?
I never understood why anyone rated him that highly to be honest? Or know if anyone ever actually did and it wasn't just something planted into the media.
I read somewhere that he was talented but had a very bad attitude and rubbed up team personnel the wrong way. How a racing driver , even a young one, can't see that having the team onside can only improve your performance is beyond me. Constructive criticism is fine, but turning people against you is such a bad idea, this info was fed back to Toto Wolff and he dropped him rather than bring him in alongside Hamilton when Rosberg retired.

His reputation stopped him getting drives elsewhere too. In a sport where toxic personalities seem to be acceptable he must have been particularly bad for nobody to be willing to take him on.

kambites

67,462 posts

220 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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patmahe said:
I read somewhere that he was talented but had a very bad attitude and rubbed up team personnel the wrong way.
Did he have Alonso as a mentor at some point? biggrin

cgt2

7,093 posts

187 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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patmahe said:
He seemed to be a bit of a Villeneuve type character, always driving the wheels off what he had and spectacular to watch but with a hot headed temperament, maybe if he'd been able to dial things back a notch and manage tyres etc he'd have improved but I think it was a classic case of right place wrong time. Had he gone to Williams I think we'd be talking about retired world champion Jean Alesi.
Correct. Not only did he have Villeneuve's 27 on his car, I clearly remember from being at circuits at the time how incredibly popular he was with fans. Apart from Spa, Hockenheim and Silverstone, by far the most support and signs in the crowd were for Alesi.

liner33

10,642 posts

201 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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Always knew that the Alonso/Alpine relationship would sour just like every team relationship he has in F1 , the guy is toxic imo and not what he was . They are well shot of him and AM will regret signing him I reckon

Teddy Lop

8,294 posts

66 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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TDK-C60 said:
Otmar pretty annoyed then -


https://racingnews365.com/szafnauer-criticises-pia...

His lawyers seem to think this is not over perhaps, but you'd think the FIA would have read his existing contract carefully before saying the Mac one was pukka.
Pretty rich of him

All we can do is conjecture, but the more he doth protest...

Fundoreen

4,180 posts

82 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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Its the usual story we see in the general workplace. While relying on the vast experience and skill of older workers firms generally run them down for being old. In this instance Alonso took the best option for feeling valued.
Workers at Alpine are no doubt delighted as they can return to a steady mediocrity hiding in the shadows of the midfield with jobs for life as they budget cap and solid F1 entry protects them. Ocon will have his big grin and so will the other (not sour faced piastri lol) driver regardless.
Nobody likes a pushy employee or boss unless they want to win something. Stroll Sr and Alonso will try but you need a vast team of top people, so lets see.

samoht

5,633 posts

145 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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patmahe said:
I read somewhere that he was talented but had a very bad attitude and rubbed up team personnel the wrong way.
Pascal Wehrlein continuing to win friends and influence people https://the-race.com/formula-e/buemi-wehrlein-invo...

Likes Fast Cars

2,769 posts

164 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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liner33 said:
Always knew that the Alonso/Alpine relationship would sour just like every team relationship he has in F1 , the guy is toxic imo and not what he was . They are well shot of him and AM will regret signing him I reckon
I give it a year until Alonso falls out with Stroll Sr because Stroll Jr is getting all the shiny new toys and upgrades. It's going to be Macca 2007 all over again except this time he doesn't have a very fast and highly talented team mate.

Why teams sign this clown Alonso is beyond me....

Frimley111R

15,538 posts

233 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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paulguitar said:
vaud said:
Deesee said:
George, will be gone year after next, not the full package for what Merc need, I hope I’m proved wrong.
On what evidence?
Seems to me George has done a mighty job this season.
What?! GR has been excellent, fast and consistent. What more do you need from a new driver entering the team and leading the 8 times WC at the halfway point and having a pole to his name? If he isn't the full package I don't know who is.

Smollet

10,467 posts

189 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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Likes Fast Cars said:
I give it a year until Alonso falls out with Stroll Sr because Stroll Jr is getting all the shiny new toys and upgrades. It's going to be Macca 2007 all over again except this time he doesn't have a very fast and highly talented team mate.

Why teams sign this clown Alonso is beyond me....
Sponsors want a name. Alonso fits the bill, I doubt he’s that expensive and he can still pedal a car better than most.

ajprice

27,322 posts

195 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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The Kimoa sponsorship will probably go to AM along with Alonso.

vaud

Original Poster:

50,291 posts

154 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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ajprice said:
The Kimoa sponsorship will probably go to AM along with Alonso.
Given he was the founder and he's their brand ambassador... wink

Petrus1983

8,522 posts

161 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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ajprice said:
The Kimoa sponsorship will probably go to AM along with Alonso.
Alonso owns 25% of the brand so presumably a deal would have been done for Kimoa to feature in some capacity.

StevieBee

12,795 posts

254 months

Monday 8th August 2022
quotequote all
patmahe said:
DanielSan said:
Gtom said:
Wasn’t Pascal Wehrlein highly rated as well?
I never understood why anyone rated him that highly to be honest? Or know if anyone ever actually did and it wasn't just something planted into the media.
I read somewhere that he was talented but had a very bad attitude and rubbed up team personnel the wrong way. How a racing driver , even a young one, can't see that having the team onside can only improve your performance is beyond me. Constructive criticism is fine, but turning people against you is such a bad idea, this info was fed back to Toto Wolff and he dropped him rather than bring him in alongside Hamilton when Rosberg retired.

His reputation stopped him getting drives elsewhere too. In a sport where toxic personalities seem to be acceptable he must have been particularly bad for nobody to be willing to take him on.
Mmmm... sort of but there was more to it.

Wehrlein did himself no favours by publicly criticising Force India for choosing Ocon over him and there were indeed stories of less than harmonious relationships between him and his teams. All of those things though can be forgotten or put to one side if you're quick enough and whilst he showed some promise at Sauber and was seen as a good driver, Mercedes were looking at (and Wolff managing) drivers like Ocon and Russel who they considered to be better. His one shot would have been when Roseberg retired but Wolff considered him not ready and went for Bottas.



Fundoreen

4,180 posts

82 months

Monday 8th August 2022
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I would imagine Wehrlein was too intense for his actual acheivments. Like a Shumacher or senna without the titles but giving it the biggun at no titles teams. Should have been humble and smiley for a longer F1 career.