The Official F1 2023 silly season *contains speculation*
Discussion
Pflanzgarten said:
DanielSan said:
Pflanzgarten said:
the-norseman said:
Has he? Kevin has finished in front of Mick 3 times, Mick has finished in front of Kevin 3 times
That is vastly over simplifying the results. Whenever mick has finished above kevin, neither have scored points and two out of three times kevin was one place behind.The other three that kevin finished above, he finished in the points-something Mick so far has found impossible to do.
_Yeti said:
DanielSan said:
Pflanzgarten said:
DanielSan said:
Pflanzgarten said:
the-norseman said:
Has he? Kevin has finished in front of Mick 3 times, Mick has finished in front of Kevin 3 times
That is vastly over simplifying the results. Whenever mick has finished above kevin, neither have scored points and two out of three times kevin was one place behind.The other three that kevin finished above, he finished in the points-something Mick so far has found impossible to do.
Based on what? Your opinion or a few points when we're not even half way through the season? It certainly doesn't look like thinkingis involved...
Has Russell handed Hamilton his ass this season? He's double the number of points ahead of Hamilton that KMag is in front of Schumacher after all.
vaud said:
I think it's good for a new driver to land in a car with low expectations, at least for one year. If expectations are low then it's easier to manage their profile.
At least I think it is valid in an era with almost not testing. The first year is then just a very extended testing.
Arguably Russell should have been promoted sooner.
I think, as a LH fan, this is where I currently stand with George. I thought he would come in and be s-l-i-g-h-t--l-y outclassed by Lewis due to Lewis' greater tyre whispering. Currently that has not been the case as George has generally been in the better position, either by chance or ability...maximising his opportunity and clouding my predictions, At least I think it is valid in an era with almost not testing. The first year is then just a very extended testing.
Arguably Russell should have been promoted sooner.
Good on him. I do not think Lewis is done in any way shape or form, but it is a Lewis/Alonso moment revisited, and spices up OUR chosen entertainment.
Enjoy...
Plenty of rumours around of Piastri getting in at Williams ahead of next season... (If he does then I've posted this in the wrong years thread!)
It would be harsh to boot Latifi mid-season, it's one of the worse ways to leave the sport (although obviously not the worst), no driver wants to be ushered out with such urgency. However... He's been terrible at Williams, and given his pay grade I suspect the cost of cutting his contract short is not that significant. It might even be less than the damage he's caused so far this season..
It would be harsh to boot Latifi mid-season, it's one of the worse ways to leave the sport (although obviously not the worst), no driver wants to be ushered out with such urgency. However... He's been terrible at Williams, and given his pay grade I suspect the cost of cutting his contract short is not that significant. It might even be less than the damage he's caused so far this season..
TheDeuce said:
Plenty of rumours around of Piastri getting in at Williams ahead of next season... (If he does then I've posted this in the wrong years thread!)
It would be harsh to boot Latifi mid-season, it's one of the worse ways to leave the sport (although obviously not the worst), no driver wants to be ushered out with such urgency. However... He's been terrible at Williams, and given his pay grade I suspect the cost of cutting his contract short is not that significant. It might even be less than the damage he's caused so far this season..
On the F1's youtube weekend warm-up, they all refused to believe he'd be out mid-season! But seemed to support him being dropped for Piastri for 2023. It would be harsh to boot Latifi mid-season, it's one of the worse ways to leave the sport (although obviously not the worst), no driver wants to be ushered out with such urgency. However... He's been terrible at Williams, and given his pay grade I suspect the cost of cutting his contract short is not that significant. It might even be less than the damage he's caused so far this season..
_Yeti said:
TheDeuce said:
Plenty of rumours around of Piastri getting in at Williams ahead of next season... (If he does then I've posted this in the wrong years thread!)
It would be harsh to boot Latifi mid-season, it's one of the worse ways to leave the sport (although obviously not the worst), no driver wants to be ushered out with such urgency. However... He's been terrible at Williams, and given his pay grade I suspect the cost of cutting his contract short is not that significant. It might even be less than the damage he's caused so far this season..
On the F1's youtube weekend warm-up, they all refused to believe he'd be out mid-season! But seemed to support him being dropped for Piastri for 2023. It would be harsh to boot Latifi mid-season, it's one of the worse ways to leave the sport (although obviously not the worst), no driver wants to be ushered out with such urgency. However... He's been terrible at Williams, and given his pay grade I suspect the cost of cutting his contract short is not that significant. It might even be less than the damage he's caused so far this season..
There are rumours though, and typically drivers being ejected mid season don't tend to find out until the summer break - not a good idea to let them know while they still have to drive the car.
Could all be noise of course - but he really is doing a shocking job so it wouldn't amaze me if it were true.
entropy said:
If Williams do indeed take Piastri and Renault engines where does this leave Audi/Porsche/VAG who were rumoured at taking over Didcot? Maybe Autocar were right after all?
Porsche are getting in bed with Red Bull and Audi are sniffing around to buy a team- but I don't think Williams is in the top two most likely teams for acquisition. Alfa Romeo and Aston Martin more likely. Anyway I think both companies are looking to be in for 2026 and may or may not elect to get involved earlier than that.
HustleRussell said:
entropy said:
If Williams do indeed take Piastri and Renault engines where does this leave Audi/Porsche/VAG who were rumoured at taking over Didcot? Maybe Autocar were right after all?
Porsche are getting in bed with Red Bull and Audi are sniffing around to buy a team- but I don't think Williams is in the top two most likely teams for acquisition. Alfa Romeo and Aston Martin more likely. Anyway I think both companies are looking to be in for 2026 and may or may not elect to get involved earlier than that.
Alfa wouldake sense.. but also F1 could use an 11th team and VAG can afford to create one - although getting the right talent assembled would be tricky and it could take a few years to get competitive.
Audi are going to have some trouble buying a team for their entry. They can't leave it until the eve of 2026, and if they buy someone before that then they'll end up being a customer team of a rival OEM until 2026 comes around and they start using their own new engine. I can't imagine Mercedes or Ferrari being happy to supply Audi with F1 engines in the meantime.
I suppose they could potentially break contract and switch to the RBR engine, but we don't know if RBR have the capacity to supply another team, or if Honda put any restrictions on RBR supplying a third party team with their IP.
I feel that their best option is to start with a new entry. Even if it costs them a billion dollars to get a team up and running, it's just a drop in their corporate ocean.
I suppose they could potentially break contract and switch to the RBR engine, but we don't know if RBR have the capacity to supply another team, or if Honda put any restrictions on RBR supplying a third party team with their IP.
I feel that their best option is to start with a new entry. Even if it costs them a billion dollars to get a team up and running, it's just a drop in their corporate ocean.
thegreenhell said:
Audi are going to have some trouble buying a team for their entry. They can't leave it until the eve of 2026, and if they buy someone before that then they'll end up being a customer team of a rival OEM until 2026 comes around and they start using their own new engine. I can't imagine Mercedes or Ferrari being happy to supply Audi with F1 engines in the meantime.
I suppose they could potentially break contract and switch to the RBR engine, but we don't know if RBR have the capacity to supply another team, or if Honda put any restrictions on RBR supplying a third party team with their IP.
I feel that their best option is to start with a new entry. Even if it costs them a billion dollars to get a team up and running, it's just a drop in their corporate ocean.
They can invest in RBR engines to increase capacity. The budget caps make discretionary allowances for new teams to enter the sport and make capital expenditures. Which actually could give a new team a few benefits initially - although like I said, that's set against the difficulty of assembling a brand new team these days.I suppose they could potentially break contract and switch to the RBR engine, but we don't know if RBR have the capacity to supply another team, or if Honda put any restrictions on RBR supplying a third party team with their IP.
I feel that their best option is to start with a new entry. Even if it costs them a billion dollars to get a team up and running, it's just a drop in their corporate ocean.
But anyway, I broadly agree - if they want to create a big wave in the sport and have full control from day one, they need to create that 11th team. I'm sure the sport will do all it can to encourage that too.
I could see Audi becoming a title sponsor for the next few years with the agreement that they take over the team when its current engine deal ends. There have been plenty of examples of customer teams having major sponsorship deals with car manufacturers who are competitors of their engine supplier.
kambites said:
I could see Audi becoming a title sponsor for the next few years with the agreement that they take over the team when its current engine deal ends. There have been plenty of examples of customer teams having major sponsorship deals with car manufacturers who are competitors of their engine supplier.
That's trur in the past, but these days the car groups are lesser and larger. I really can't see the likes of VAG using a non VAG branded engine. They're a manufacturer that I think I'm right in saying doesn't use any non VAG group power in any of their road cars?TheDeuce said:
kambites said:
I could see Audi becoming a title sponsor for the next few years with the agreement that they take over the team when its current engine deal ends. There have been plenty of examples of customer teams having major sponsorship deals with car manufacturers who are competitors of their engine supplier.
That's trur in the past, but these days the car groups are lesser and larger. I really can't see the likes of VAG using a non VAG branded engine. They're a manufacturer that I think I'm right in saying doesn't use any non VAG group power in any of their road cars?If Audi don't want a Mercedes branded engine, they can always call it something else like Redbull did with the Renault unit.
kambites said:
TheDeuce said:
kambites said:
I could see Audi becoming a title sponsor for the next few years with the agreement that they take over the team when its current engine deal ends. There have been plenty of examples of customer teams having major sponsorship deals with car manufacturers who are competitors of their engine supplier.
That's trur in the past, but these days the car groups are lesser and larger. I really can't see the likes of VAG using a non VAG branded engine. They're a manufacturer that I think I'm right in saying doesn't use any non VAG group power in any of their road cars?If Audi don't want a Mercedes branded engine, they can always call it something else like Redbull did with the Renault unit.
And when RBR had the Renault unit, it was still officially recognised as Renault.
I think you over-estimate how much anyone cares about things like that. I'm sure Audi's ultimate goal is to build their own engine but I don't see a problem with a short-term period where there's Audi badges on a Mercedes powered car.
I'm not saying they will, but if the opportunity came up to take a major stake in an existing team now I don't think they'd turn it down.
ETA: I guess they could always buy a team but not change its branding until 2026 if they were that worried about it
I'm not saying they will, but if the opportunity came up to take a major stake in an existing team now I don't think they'd turn it down.
ETA: I guess they could always buy a team but not change its branding until 2026 if they were that worried about it
Edited by kambites on Friday 17th June 15:56
kambites said:
I think you over-estimate how much anyone cares about things like that. I'm sure Audi's ultimate goal is to build their own engine but I don't see a problem with a short-term period where there's Audi badges on a Mercedes powered car.
I'm not saying they will, but if the opportunity came up to take a major stake in an existing team now I don't think they'd turn it down.
ETA: I guess they could always buy a team but not change its branding until 2026 if they were that worried about it
I would put money on there not being an Audi-Mercedes team, just as I don't think VAG would be able to buy Sauber and call the car a Lamborghini-Ferrari. It would be good trolling but would never happen in reality. The two companies are too much rivals in every sense for either of them to allow such a thing to happen.I'm not saying they will, but if the opportunity came up to take a major stake in an existing team now I don't think they'd turn it down.
ETA: I guess they could always buy a team but not change its branding until 2026 if they were that worried about it
Edited by kambites on Friday 17th June 15:56
thegreenhell said:
I would put money on there not being an Audi-Mercedes team, just as I don't think VAG would be able to buy Sauber and call the car a Lamborghini-Ferrari. It would be good trolling but would never happen in reality. The two companies are too much rivals in every sense for either of them to allow such a thing to happen.
No I'm sure it wouldn't be called "Audi-Mercedes". They'd either re-brand the engine similarly to Redbull did, or Audi would be a title sponsor like Infiniti have been for various teams over the years. More likely the former I'd imagine. It's not really very different than having Alfa Romeo branded cars with Ferrari engines is it? Those two car companies are entirely unrelated these days I think? Of course they're not quite so directly in competition.
Edited by kambites on Friday 17th June 17:09
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