Discussion
HustleRussell said:
Should we just cut the crap and re-name the thread ‘WIMMIN on Sky F1’?
Seems fair enough to mention Bernie here. Many of the early comments defending Schiff claimed some combination of misogyny and racism, without acknowledging that she had no relevant experience to qualify her as a pundit and was really not very good.Bernie is the anti-Schiff - experienced, knowledgeable, articulate, and she's already very natural for someone that isn't from a media background. To quote every second PH headline, behold: nobody has a bad word to say. She's been excellent and I'd be very happy to see her at the rest of the races this season. She'll only get better with experience too.
It'd be great to see Bernie get her own thread on here, but since we all seem to agree she's great it would probably be a very short one
spikyone said:
HustleRussell said:
Should we just cut the crap and re-name the thread ‘WIMMIN on Sky F1’?
Seems fair enough to mention Bernie here. Many of the early comments defending Schiff claimed some combination of misogyny and racism, without acknowledging that she had no relevant experience to qualify her as a pundit and was really not very good.Bernie is the anti-Schiff - experienced, knowledgeable, articulate, and she's already very natural for someone that isn't from a media background. To quote every second PH headline, behold: nobody has a bad word to say. She's been excellent and I'd be very happy to see her at the rest of the races this season. She'll only get better with experience too.
It'd be great to see Bernie get her own thread on here, but since we all seem to agree she's great it would probably be a very short one
Schiff has not got a great deal of experience, therefore she gets flak. Because she is black she gets far more attention than her many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts that came before her.
Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
PhilAsia said:
My take on Schiff and Bernie is this.
Schiff has not got a great deal of experience, therefore she gets flak. Because she is black she gets far more attention than her many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts that came before her.
Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
So now that we've shown it wasn't gender, it must have been the other prejudice. Do you not hear how ridiculous that sounds? You're perhaps exposing your own prejudice if the main reason you can think of that people criticise Schiff more than others is effectively that "they're probably closet racists".Schiff has not got a great deal of experience, therefore she gets flak. Because she is black she gets far more attention than her many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts that came before her.
Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
It's pretty simple, she wasn't very good at what she was employed to do. Crofty gets far more flak and he's a white male, Herbert got a fair bit of stick too. Although maybe that's ageism...
Bernie gets praised because her experience is relevant to the job and she can string an interesting, coherent, relevant sentence together. Naomi has neither experience nor insight, and generally says nothing that adds to the conversation. She has said herself that she was surprised to be taken on as a pundit.
I can't think which "many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts" you're referring to either. Everyone that I recall being employed as a regular TV pundit has been an ex-F1 employee, either as a race/test driver or team member in some capacity. Any examples?
spikyone said:
PhilAsia said:
My take on Schiff and Bernie is this.
Schiff has not got a great deal of experience, therefore she gets flak. Because she is black she gets far more attention than her many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts that came before her.
Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
So now that we've shown it wasn't gender, it must have been the other prejudice. Do you not hear how ridiculous that sounds? You're perhaps exposing your own prejudice if the main reason you can think of that people criticise Schiff more than others is effectively that "they're probably closet racists".Schiff has not got a great deal of experience, therefore she gets flak. Because she is black she gets far more attention than her many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts that came before her.
Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
It's pretty simple, she wasn't very good at what she was employed to do. Crofty gets far more flak and he's a white male, Herbert got a fair bit of stick too. Although maybe that's ageism...
Bernie gets praised because her experience is relevant to the job and she can string an interesting, coherent, relevant sentence together. Naomi has neither experience nor insight, and generally says nothing that adds to the conversation. She has said herself that she was surprised to be taken on as a pundit.
I can't think which "many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts" you're referring to either. Everyone that I recall being employed as a regular TV pundit has been an ex-F1 employee, either as a race/test driver or team member in some capacity. Any examples?
PhilAsia said:
Of course I am showing my prejudice, I thought that was a given. My other points remain.
Your other points are quite obviously affected by your prejudice. You're very wrong to suggest that criticism of Schiff has anything to with her race, and demonstrably wrong to claim that crap white pundits with less experience have been hired by Sky/BBC/Ch4.My wife and I enjoyed the F1on Sky this weekend, first time for a while this weekend. The new Bernie was very good (the previous Bernie looked like a lttle grizzly short bloke), great to see Rachel back up front as well. Danica, you can stay at home as well please.
Just got to fire off Croft and all will be much better on Sky.
Just got to fire off Croft and all will be much better on Sky.
PhilAsia said:
Schiff has not got a great deal of experience, therefore she gets flak. Because she is black she gets far more attention than her many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts that came before her.
Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
My issue with Schiff's supposed lack of experience is that she doesn't use it to her advantage. Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
Plenty of racing drivers, regardless of how good they are, have worked as instructors or ended up as driver coaches so in that sense it would be interesting to see Schiff have a go on the SkyPad.
spikyone said:
PhilAsia said:
Of course I am showing my prejudice, I thought that was a given. My other points remain.
Your other points are quite obviously affected by your prejudice. You're very wrong to suggest that criticism of Schiff has anything to with her race, and demonstrably wrong to claim that crap white pundits with less experience have been hired by Sky/BBC/Ch4.entropy said:
PhilAsia said:
Schiff has not got a great deal of experience, therefore she gets flak. Because she is black she gets far more attention than her many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts that came before her.
Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
My issue with Schiff's supposed lack of experience is that she doesn't use it to her advantage. Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
Plenty of racing drivers, regardless of how good they are, have worked as instructors or ended up as driver coaches so in that sense it would be interesting to see Schiff have a go on the SkyPad.
I have no other views on Schiff apart from the indignation that I have seen written. I saw one interview with Lewis where she came across well, but nothing ground-breaking, nor hugely lacking.
Not sure this was commented on, but a 40-minute interview of Naomi, with Jodie Kidd.
Part I https://youtube.com/watch?v=9OkLZ-dm1_E
Part II https://youtube.com/watch?v=DITRlRZ6iJo
Quite a fascinating back-story, she’s done an awful lot of stuff in her short life, and she’s now setting up a foundation to support charities in South Africa, where she grew up.
Part I https://youtube.com/watch?v=9OkLZ-dm1_E
Part II https://youtube.com/watch?v=DITRlRZ6iJo
Quite a fascinating back-story, she’s done an awful lot of stuff in her short life, and she’s now setting up a foundation to support charities in South Africa, where she grew up.
I was beginning to warm to Naomi Schiff, and then I watched the F1 Show. I like a nice bit of décolletage as much as any bloke, but Jesus Christ woman, put your tits away!
Seriously, if she wants to be taken seriously as a woman in a male dominated world then she’s going about it the wrong way.
And yes, I am a grumpy old white man.
Seriously, if she wants to be taken seriously as a woman in a male dominated world then she’s going about it the wrong way.
And yes, I am a grumpy old white man.
DynoDad said:
I was beginning to warm to Naomi Schiff, and then I watched the F1 Show. I like a nice bit of décolletage as much as any bloke, but Jesus Christ woman, put your tits away!
Seriously, if she wants to be taken seriously as a woman in a male dominated world then she’s going about it the wrong way.
And yes, I am a grumpy old white man.
You’ll enjoy the ensemble today at Monaco. It’s a Schiff fashion display. She makes the other old men presenting very drab indeed.Seriously, if she wants to be taken seriously as a woman in a male dominated world then she’s going about it the wrong way.
And yes, I am a grumpy old white man.
DynoDad said:
I was beginning to warm to Naomi Schiff, and then I watched the F1 Show. I like a nice bit of décolletage as much as any bloke, but Jesus Christ woman, put your tits away!
Seriously, if she wants to be taken seriously as a woman in a male dominated world then she’s going about it the wrong way.
And yes, I am a grumpy old white man.
How about instead of thinking of her as a “woman in a male dominated world” Seriously, if she wants to be taken seriously as a woman in a male dominated world then she’s going about it the wrong way.
And yes, I am a grumpy old white man.
, we just think of her as a woman wearing what she wants to wear. Maybe it isn’t all about what men think. Radical I know.
spikyone said:
PhilAsia said:
My take on Schiff and Bernie is this.
Schiff has not got a great deal of experience, therefore she gets flak. Because she is black she gets far more attention than her many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts that came before her.
Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
So now that we've shown it wasn't gender, it must have been the other prejudice. Do you not hear how ridiculous that sounds? You're perhaps exposing your own prejudice if the main reason you can think of that people criticise Schiff more than others is effectively that "they're probably closet racists".Schiff has not got a great deal of experience, therefore she gets flak. Because she is black she gets far more attention than her many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts that came before her.
Bernie is experienced, therefore she gets praised.
It's pretty simple, she wasn't very good at what she was employed to do. Crofty gets far more flak and he's a white male, Herbert got a fair bit of stick too. Although maybe that's ageism...
Bernie gets praised because her experience is relevant to the job and she can string an interesting, coherent, relevant sentence together. Naomi has neither experience nor insight, and generally says nothing that adds to the conversation. She has said herself that she was surprised to be taken on as a pundit.
I can't think which "many, many, many inexperienced white counterparts" you're referring to either. Everyone that I recall being employed as a regular TV pundit has been an ex-F1 employee, either as a race/test driver or team member in some capacity. Any examples?
IIRC he had no F1 knowledge but was very very good at his job.
asfault said:
Pflanzgarten said:
Did Simon Lazonby? He was lucky to survive that Priness Grace comment the first year he went to Monaco.
What happened there? I forget
.It might be that she looks like her cat died, or looks as if she's being held hostage
. No change today...number2 said:
asfault said:
Pflanzgarten said:
Did Simon Lazonby? He was lucky to survive that Priness Grace comment the first year he went to Monaco.
What happened there? I forget.It might be that she looks like her cat died, or looks as if she's being held hostage
. No change today...Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff