Masi gone from F1
Discussion
confucuis said:
Muzzer79 said:
What was his motive?
This is all my personal opinion and I've no evidence to support this but:The "show" was his motive.
I think Liberty had got the season they wanted, full of controversy and drama that was precipitated by what seemed to be poor decisions by the officials. But if you look at those decisions through the context that Liberty wanted to "spice" up the championship and probably made it known to the FIA/stewards that they should let some things slide to ensure the "show".
Liberty built up the last race to be something epic. Two bitter rivals! Tied on points! Winner takes all!
However, Merc threw a spanner in the works in that they just f
ked off into the distance in the last race, with no chance of anyone catching them, no chance for battles, no "show". Liberty's big crescendo gone. But then Latifi crashed and they got their opportunity. That's why Masi first said that the cars would not be allowed to overtake then suddenly 30 seconds later, he countermanded that order. He got a nudge.Liberty did not expect the utter s
tstorm that rightly ensued. They probably expected everyone to love the drama, manufactured or not as is the American tendency with sport is. I don't think Masi intentionally bent the rules to favour RB, but more he bent the rules to favour the "show" which happened to involve RB and Merc./Tinfoil hat
But the question remains, what does he get out of that?
It was so obvious......if it was an attempt to manipulate the outcome, it was so ham-fisted to flout the rules, allow some lapped cars to overtake, to bring the safety car in early.....
If they wanted a show for the end, surely you'd throw a red flag, let Lewis and Max change tyres and have a >5 lap shootout. That would have been exciting, arguably legitimate and certainly less blatant.
As it was, the scenario ended up where Masi is out of a job, fans are up in arms and the championship is tainted. So what does Masi gain?
My point is that if it was for "the show" you'd have done it a hell of a lot better.
That leaves 2 options - conspiracy to directly help Red Bull win or a gigantic cock-up. There's nothing to suggest the former anywhere and, again, what does Masi gain by helping Red Bull?
vdn said:
mat205125 said:
Exactly this.
He was abused by team principles with an understandable appetite to steer scenarios to their agendas
The race director role was in a position where it was first and foremost there to ensure the safe operation of meetings, however always with a pushed agenda to put on a show ...... there was never a single decision that was ever going to meet with universal applause and support, which also remains the case today, and which will be the case forevermore irrespective of who is appointed to make judgement calls.
He became a Patsy at the end of 2021, and it's taken less than six months for the split-role team approach to be inadequate and unsustainable due to the lack of a single point of accountability, which Masi and Whiting offered in the role.
Whilst it's a controversial opinion, especially if you're a Mercedes or Lewis fan, I actually think that Masi did a reasonable job in the face of an impossible set of situations through the year.
I don't mean that in the same way as those defending Bo-Jo as "he's doing his best", and rather that I can't see anyone having done better.
The big thing that should have been nipped in the bud very early in 2021 was the Toto and Christian access to offload their opinions of what should happen every five minutes, and the toys-out-the-pram balling that temper tantrum Toto released should have been reprimanded severely ...... In any "real world" situation, this is bullying, plain and simple
"A reasonable job"He was abused by team principles with an understandable appetite to steer scenarios to their agendas
The race director role was in a position where it was first and foremost there to ensure the safe operation of meetings, however always with a pushed agenda to put on a show ...... there was never a single decision that was ever going to meet with universal applause and support, which also remains the case today, and which will be the case forevermore irrespective of who is appointed to make judgement calls.
He became a Patsy at the end of 2021, and it's taken less than six months for the split-role team approach to be inadequate and unsustainable due to the lack of a single point of accountability, which Masi and Whiting offered in the role.
Whilst it's a controversial opinion, especially if you're a Mercedes or Lewis fan, I actually think that Masi did a reasonable job in the face of an impossible set of situations through the year.
I don't mean that in the same way as those defending Bo-Jo as "he's doing his best", and rather that I can't see anyone having done better.
The big thing that should have been nipped in the bud very early in 2021 was the Toto and Christian access to offload their opinions of what should happen every five minutes, and the toys-out-the-pram balling that temper tantrum Toto released should have been reprimanded severely ...... In any "real world" situation, this is bullying, plain and simple
Your standards must be on another planet to most.
ChocolateFrog said:
I hope for Masi's sake he did make a few million out of throwing the championship.
I can understand greed and corruption better than I can sheer incompetence.
As above I doubt it was either, it was all about Liberty deciding a Mercedes domination had gone on long enough, hence the rule changes to favour high rake cars etc What they didn't expect was RB to cock up so much, or Merc to stage a great fightback, which is why we saw 'discretions' by Max treated favourably because with Liberty it was all about the big show, the entertainment and ratings and thats what they got for the last race.I can understand greed and corruption better than I can sheer incompetence.
Then in the last race, Merc ruined it by scampering off and rather than let it happen, have the PR of the great fightback story etc, Masi most likely got a nuge, or suddenly remembered...
No corruption or incompetence, just someone remembering to do as his employers wanted...
Byker28i said:
ChocolateFrog said:
I hope for Masi's sake he did make a few million out of throwing the championship.
I can understand greed and corruption better than I can sheer incompetence.
As above I doubt it was either, it was all about Liberty deciding a Mercedes domination had gone on long enough, hence the rule changes to favour high rake cars etc What they didn't expect was RB to cock up so much, or Merc to stage a great fightback, which is why we saw 'discretions' by Max treated favourably because with Liberty it was all about the big show, the entertainment and ratings and thats what they got for the last race.I can understand greed and corruption better than I can sheer incompetence.
Then in the last race, Merc ruined it by scampering off and rather than let it happen, have the PR of the great fightback story etc, Masi most likely got a nuge, or suddenly remembered...
No corruption or incompetence, just someone remembering to do as his employers wanted...
I'd agree that it had been engineered to a point but by the last race it didn't matter who won, it wouldn't have detracted from the product if Hamilton had won again.
The season had already gone down to about the last 15-20 laps before being decided.
jsf said:
Masi thought he was the show and started to love the attention, his ego bit him in the arse.
100% this. Putting those team/RD radio comms out to air was a terrible decision - it made the RD part of the show. And if you have a RD who likes the sound of their own voice and enjoys making withering putdowns, it's a recipe for nonsense like AD.entropy said:
Nova Gyna said:
What’s Vettel got to do with it?
He walked out of the drivers briefing in Austria. Not exactly a ringing endorsement that things have improved post-Masi, is it?Swapping out an inept, incompetent race director for two inconsistent ones was never going to be a good look for the FIA.
Muzzer79 said:
jm doc said:
Muzzer79 said:
jm doc said:
No, he very clearly did not make a "mistake". He knew the rules, he has quoted them unprompted in the past.
This was very simply a person in authority directly influencing the outcome of a worldwide sporting event, at the request of one team and even refusing the direct request of the other team to follow the rules.
This had multi-million pound consequnces for thousands of people.
That is corrupt, until proven otherwise by a full investigation under the auspices of the law.
So, guilty until proven innocent? This was very simply a person in authority directly influencing the outcome of a worldwide sporting event, at the request of one team and even refusing the direct request of the other team to follow the rules.
This had multi-million pound consequnces for thousands of people.
That is corrupt, until proven otherwise by a full investigation under the auspices of the law.
What was his motive, what was his reward and where’s the evidence of both?
1) Masi knew how to do a safety car start, he had done dozens and quoted the rules at times about this.
2) He stated clearly and unequivocally how he was going to do this when the time came in the race, and this was by the rules.
3) Horner then gets on the radio seconds later and says the immortal words, "we only need one lap Michael"
4) Wolf tells Masi, you have to follow the rules, but despite this reminder of the rules, astonishingly it is ignored.
5) Masi immediately throws the rulebook out of the window, Horner gets his one lap and RB get the title.
Everthing the RB fans and Max fans continue to spout about this is just deflection, deflection, deflection. That was the sequence of events. The only conclusion you can draw from that is that Horner influenced Masi. He was presented with a choice, follow the rules or don't follow the rules, and he CHOSE the latter after being asked to do that.
It's up to you and others defending Masi and RB to prove that there wasn't coercion/conspiracy/corruption. You don't seem to be able to get your heads around the facts, he did what he was asked to do by Horner.
jm doc said:
It's up to you and others defending Masi and RB to prove that there wasn't coercion/conspiracy/corruption. You don't seem to be able to get your heads around the facts, he did what he was asked to do by Horner.
Further confirmed by Masi's repeat of Wheatley's phrase about having "a motor race". [Edit to change the quote attribution, I'd remembered it as Horner's]
Edited by carl_w on Thursday 14th July 17:11
jm doc said:
Muzzer79 said:
jm doc said:
Muzzer79 said:
jm doc said:
No, he very clearly did not make a "mistake". He knew the rules, he has quoted them unprompted in the past.
This was very simply a person in authority directly influencing the outcome of a worldwide sporting event, at the request of one team and even refusing the direct request of the other team to follow the rules.
This had multi-million pound consequnces for thousands of people.
That is corrupt, until proven otherwise by a full investigation under the auspices of the law.
So, guilty until proven innocent? This was very simply a person in authority directly influencing the outcome of a worldwide sporting event, at the request of one team and even refusing the direct request of the other team to follow the rules.
This had multi-million pound consequnces for thousands of people.
That is corrupt, until proven otherwise by a full investigation under the auspices of the law.
What was his motive, what was his reward and where’s the evidence of both?
1) Masi knew how to do a safety car start, he had done dozens and quoted the rules at times about this.
2) He stated clearly and unequivocally how he was going to do this when the time came in the race, and this was by the rules.
3) Horner then gets on the radio seconds later and says the immortal words, "we only need one lap Michael"
4) Wolf tells Masi, you have to follow the rules, but despite this reminder of the rules, astonishingly it is ignored.
5) Masi immediately throws the rulebook out of the window, Horner gets his one lap and RB get the title.
Everthing the RB fans and Max fans continue to spout about this is just deflection, deflection, deflection. That was the sequence of events. The only conclusion you can draw from that is that Horner influenced Masi. He was presented with a choice, follow the rules or don't follow the rules, and he CHOSE the latter after being asked to do that.
It's up to you and others defending Masi and RB to prove that there wasn't coercion/conspiracy/corruption. You don't seem to be able to get your heads around the facts, he did what he was asked to do by Horner.
I'll ask again, IF Masi was indeed corrupt as you allege and directly sought to have Red Bull win the title:
> What was in it for him?
> Why do it so blatantly? It wasn't like it was a subtle act, right at the end of the race. Why not penalise Hamilton earlier in the race for the questionable move when he left the track and drop him down the order that way?
There's a hundred different ways in the 53 laps before Latifi's crash that Verstappen could have subtly been aided to get ahead of Hamilton.
> Being as it was so blatant, why hasn't any evidence been found of corruption between him and Red Bull in the subsequent FIA investigation?
Zarco said:
It was for 'the show' on Liberty's behalf if anything. Not a corrupt plot between RedBull and Masi.
This is my takeI think he'd likely been told all week to ensure everything is decided "on track" and to try to let them race. Both teams had talked about that earlier so it was clearly widely discussed at a minimal level (and would explain the "motor race" comment), and I think Masi panicked and lost track of time in trying to sort everything and have all the bickering from toto and Horner and also no doubt had "the show" printed out in red letters on every surface in the race room.
Hamilton nearly had max down the back straight, would have been interesting if he'd managed to get ahead what the last few corners would have been like.
Either way, Masi got caught up in it, mad a bad call and he's been paid off. I don't buy the conspiracies on favouring max, but this could make it more likely we find out sooner than later
Muzzer79 said:
jm doc said:
Muzzer79 said:
jm doc said:
Muzzer79 said:
jm doc said:
No, he very clearly did not make a "mistake". He knew the rules, he has quoted them unprompted in the past.
This was very simply a person in authority directly influencing the outcome of a worldwide sporting event, at the request of one team and even refusing the direct request of the other team to follow the rules.
This had multi-million pound consequnces for thousands of people.
That is corrupt, until proven otherwise by a full investigation under the auspices of the law.
So, guilty until proven innocent? This was very simply a person in authority directly influencing the outcome of a worldwide sporting event, at the request of one team and even refusing the direct request of the other team to follow the rules.
This had multi-million pound consequnces for thousands of people.
That is corrupt, until proven otherwise by a full investigation under the auspices of the law.
What was his motive, what was his reward and where’s the evidence of both?
1) Masi knew how to do a safety car start, he had done dozens and quoted the rules at times about this.
2) He stated clearly and unequivocally how he was going to do this when the time came in the race, and this was by the rules.
3) Horner then gets on the radio seconds later and says the immortal words, "we only need one lap Michael"
4) Wolf tells Masi, you have to follow the rules, but despite this reminder of the rules, astonishingly it is ignored.
5) Masi immediately throws the rulebook out of the window, Horner gets his one lap and RB get the title.
Everthing the RB fans and Max fans continue to spout about this is just deflection, deflection, deflection. That was the sequence of events. The only conclusion you can draw from that is that Horner influenced Masi. He was presented with a choice, follow the rules or don't follow the rules, and he CHOSE the latter after being asked to do that.
It's up to you and others defending Masi and RB to prove that there wasn't coercion/conspiracy/corruption. You don't seem to be able to get your heads around the facts, he did what he was asked to do by Horner.
I'll ask again, IF Masi was indeed corrupt as you allege and directly sought to have Red Bull win the title:
> What was in it for him?
> Why do it so blatantly? It wasn't like it was a subtle act, right at the end of the race. Why not penalise Hamilton earlier in the race for the questionable move when he left the track and drop him down the order that way?
There's a hundred different ways in the 53 laps before Latifi's crash that Verstappen could have subtly been aided to get ahead of Hamilton.
> Being as it was so blatant, why hasn't any evidence been found of corruption between him and Red Bull in the subsequent FIA investigation?
You're asking me to speculate, why don't you as to why he made a decision about ending the safety car, only to overturn it when asked, despite being warned that it was against the rules. Based on what actually happened of course, not just on fantasy "maybe he was tired", maybe he "thought it had to end under a green flag" (there were plenty of legal options for that), maybe he was "overstressed by all the radio calls and confused" (despite being told directly he was breaking the rules), "out of his depth" (but not deep enough to make a deliberate call to ignore the rules). There's no actual evidence to support any of that.
The one FACT we actually have is he was asked directly to ignore the rules and he changed his decision to do that. He engineered a result. That's evidence of corruption/collusion in the absence of a remotely explicable reason, and should be investigate independently as such, if only to clear his name if he really is so innocent..
I honestly believe you cannot be so naive as not to see that and therefore suspect you are now just trolling.
Lets leave it at that.
Newscuttlepanel said:
Panic and incompetence over corruption I’d say, so it sort of seems a shame he’s been lambasted to such a degree, but then I also think he just came across as a bit of an arrogant prick with the “it’s called a motor race Toto” comment so I can’t say he’ll be missed too much.
I think the contradiction in tone when talking to the two teams does him no favours.I’d still lean to idiocy in the hunt of the show over corruption.
But I can’t argue about the point of it warranting a proper investigation.
Even the internal investigation held was engineered to just try and delay any outcome in the hope everyone just gave up and moved on.
He’s gone . Achieved little to nothing of any benefit. Achieved a lasting legacy in how an incompetent occupant of a management role can affect outcomes. Probably won’t be forgotten though and will enter the lexicon of motor sport whenever the chance comes to say “ they’ve just done a Masi “ . In my mind he’s consigned to a cellar in Marko’s house wearing a Red Bull outfit , gimp mask and chain . Seems fitting .
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