2021 Cost Cap Breaches

2021 Cost Cap Breaches

Author
Discussion

rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
Surely the simple answer is that they should cut this year's budget by whatever the overspend was last year..

So Verstappen's car will be more duct tape than carbon fibre for the last couple of races..

KaraK

13,177 posts

208 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
mk1coopers said:
As others have said, if it's proved, there should be a substantial penalties retrospectively applied, they need to be of a type that will deter the teams from doing it.

Having said that, F1 history shows that if a penalty is applied it will be constructed in a way that doesn't materially alter the results from previous races / Championships.
If (hypothetically) RBR committed a "material" breach it will become an exercise for the FIA in how to set a suitably scary deterrent whilst not changing the result of last years championships. I suggested in the Singapore GP thread that, should a WDC points penalty be desired it'll turn out to be 8 points or less. 8 WDC points is a noticeable amount that makes exceeding the cap a risky move but would still ensure that Max remains champion, because they won't change that - they've already demonstrated that when they admitted that the safety car rules weren't followed correctly. Max being '21 WDC is good for Liberty, and in this it's good for the FIA too, they won't disrupt that gravy train, especially not in a way that's going to make the sport itself look foolish, changing the WDC 10 months after the championship ended when they're already getting flak over things like how long it took to publish the Monza grid? Not going to happen in a month of sundays.






jules_s

4,237 posts

232 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
Catching up on FP1 Horner says RBR submitted their accounts and they were below the cap

He does sound nervous though...smile

Scabutz

7,482 posts

79 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
I live near the Red Bull garage, walking past it at 8am the sheer number of cars and people flooding into that place Im not surprised they busted their cap. The salary bill must be enormous. They all drive like wkers on the way in as well.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
Max being WDC in 21 was good for Liberty in 21….
It created drama and the new fans won off the back of it are all now loyal customers and they are not going to disappear if RB are penalised and Max kicked out of last year’s championship, it’s old news. What it would do is create more drama, more tension, more us vs them, more “RB are the bad boys of F1” nonsense and the new punters are captivated again.

Ultimately the FIA will pad it put until Max has the 22 title wrapped up, then some arbitrary financial penalties applied and the rules for recording expenditure clarified for 23.

trackdemon

12,149 posts

260 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
Altrezia said:
trackdemon said:
This doesn't make sense at all; I'm guessing you mean RB have to give 10% each to Ferrari & MB.... wink
I think he was joking because of the FIA Bias towards RB smile
:whoosh: for me! hehe

n3il123

2,602 posts

212 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
jules_s said:
Catching up on FP1 Horner says RBR submitted their accounts and they were below the cap

He does sound nervous though...smile
Made me laugh in the FP2 coverage when he said we all know where the comments are coming from.... so is it Ferrari or Mercedes? ... are they all ganging up on poor Red Bull?

Bright Halo

2,950 posts

234 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
It seems to me that cheats (if proven) in F1 are allowed to prosper and reap the rewards of their cheating. How can that be correct?

BrettMRC

4,037 posts

159 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
It'll probably end up being AM that have really gone nuts and still having to show for it...

RBR will have had nothing but a minor indescretion, a simple rounding error (to the neared $M) and everyone can just move on...


hehe

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
rscott said:
Surely the simple answer is that they should cut this year's budget by whatever the overspend was last year..

So Verstappen's car will be more duct tape than carbon fibre for the last couple of races..
This whole season is going to be over in two races, why don't Red Bull just not bother attending the races for the rest of the season and save the money instead?

carl_w

9,154 posts

257 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
Joey Deacon said:
This whole season is going to be over in two races, why don't Red Bull just not bother attending the races for the rest of the season and save the money instead?
Because they're contractually obligated to attend all of the races.

Dazzled

266 posts

225 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
Interesting interview with Toto after FP2. Said that two teams have breached the cap. One with a minor breach and another with a more significant overspend. They know the second is Red Bull and that if Horner doesn’t think there’s a problem then he needs to talk to his CFO.
Made the point that any advantage gained last season as a consequence of breaching the cap will have delivered an advantage this season and by definition for next season too as the regs are the same. Any sanction therefore should take this into account.

fttm

3,667 posts

134 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
All the signs of another farcical championship in the making , thought for a deluded moment we'd left all this nonsense behind and would see the fastest driver win , how naive rolleyes

BrettMRC

4,037 posts

159 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
jsf said:
Based on that interview with Toto and the previous one with Christian, Red Bull have massively taken the piss.

Sanction available to the court who police this includes removal of points from the WDC and WCC if under 5%, if over 5% overspend they can be thrown out of the championship. Toto's face and comments suggest RB are well over the 5% threshold.

Toto basically said RB have gained a 3 year advantage, 2021, 22 and 23 by breaking the cap.

This could be quite serious and could cost RB and Max their championships. It's F1 though, so they will probably get a bonus. laugh
Assuming it's as bad as this, you can't help but admire the job Mercedes did last year taking the championship down to the wire and staying within the rules.

cc3

2,787 posts

115 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
If it’s a material breach deduct them 75 points both for team and driver can’t have cheating. If they don’t have sufficient points in that year the deduction rolls into the next year

trackdemon

12,149 posts

260 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
fttm said:
All the signs of another farcical championship in the making , thought for a deluded moment we'd left all this nonsense behind and would see the fastest driver win , how naive rolleyes
If it transpires so, then it's nobody's fault but RB (& Aston). Rules are clear, the FIA have to enforce them. We'll see....

cc3

2,787 posts

115 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all

PhilAsia

3,697 posts

74 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
cc3 said:
So did Masi's hatchet job at AD...

cc3

2,787 posts

115 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
PhilAsia said:
cc3 said:
So did Masi's hatchet job at AD...
If it is a major budget breach the FIA will have zero credibility after Masi if they don’t strip RB of the title and even 22’s given knock on benefit

Jon_Bmw

619 posts

201 months

Friday 30th September 2022
quotequote all
Bold prediction;

RB will be over the limit, but find a loophole to avoid serious punishment (any expenditure doesn't mean all etc).

There will be a big slap on the wrists and a cost cap regulation clarification.

Meanwhile they gained a material advantage for 2 or 3 years. Lol.