What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?
Discussion
TheDeuce said:
marine boy said:
The Deuce, never considered myself a good engineer but a never written a Powerpoint, mathematical ungifted, never give up design engineer that with a bit of luck should see a F1 car I've helped design complete a full race distance for the 1000th time this weekend
An F1 car that's about to complete a full race distance for the 1000th time? I assume you were involved in the design of a standardised component/solution that has been used across several F1 cars then? Safety device? Electrical?Genuinely interested
I have also never written a powerpoint, although I don't think that's a typical requirement of good engineering. I'm pretty sharp on basic maths but I left school at 14 so missed out on the 'importance' of trigonometry etc, I left having been suspended for visiting the heads office after a detention to ask why the school was using (free) acorn computers to teach IT when it was clear that the IBM compatible system was the industry leader - and also wouldn't run my CAD software so was basically useless. Funnily enough I don't need complex maths when I can use CAD to design so I maintain it was the right time to give up on the education system - which was very antiquated in the 90's and I saw a totally different world ahead of me. Humans are good for imagining and visualising solutions. Machines are good for calculations. I've never understood the purpose of trying to teach humans to do complex calculations since the advent of the pocket calculator which can be bought for a few quid. I can manually calculate hoop stress and hydrostatic pressure which is useful in casual conversation with those I'm working with, but for the final hurdle of design I'll use the computer
Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 30th March 01:14
Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 30th March 01:15
skwdenyer said:
I read it as being the 1000th time a car (any car) to which he's contributed in the design is starting an F1 race...
That's it, not designed any standardised parts but have had a few years with 4 and 6 cars on the grid at a timeOnly taken 3 test cars, 1 qualifying only car, 39 race cars for 9 teams, 100,000's great work colleagues, £100,000,000's and 22 years of my life to get there
If I added other race cars outside of F1 that's going to be a few 100, not sure how many 100's
Have enjoyed designing on nearly all areas of a F1 car ie aero, chassis, engine box, battery, cooling system, steering wheel, suspension etc including pit stop gear and wind tunnel model. It's all just shapes, made from a material, doing a job
Never helped set a car on fire but have caused a few to go crispy brown around the edges. There were many I'd have loved to have helped burn to the ground
BrettMRC, hope you've got a great big photo of that race start on your man cave wall can you post up a pic
marine boy said:
That's it, not designed any standardised parts but have had a few years with 4 and 6 cars on the grid at a time
Only taken 3 test cars, 1 qualifying only car, 39 race cars for 9 teams, 100,000's great work colleagues, £100,000,000's and 22 years of my life to get there
If I added other race cars outside of F1 that's going to be a few 100, not sure how many 100's
Have enjoyed designing on nearly all areas of a F1 car ie aero, chassis, engine box, battery, cooling system, steering wheel, suspension etc including pit stop gear and wind tunnel model. It's all just shapes, made from a material, doing a job
Never helped set a car on fire but have caused a few to go crispy brown around the edges. There were many I'd have loved to have helped burn to the ground
BrettMRC, hope you've got a great big photo of that race start on your man cave wall can you post up a pic
But apart from that!?? Only taken 3 test cars, 1 qualifying only car, 39 race cars for 9 teams, 100,000's great work colleagues, £100,000,000's and 22 years of my life to get there
If I added other race cars outside of F1 that's going to be a few 100, not sure how many 100's
Have enjoyed designing on nearly all areas of a F1 car ie aero, chassis, engine box, battery, cooling system, steering wheel, suspension etc including pit stop gear and wind tunnel model. It's all just shapes, made from a material, doing a job
Never helped set a car on fire but have caused a few to go crispy brown around the edges. There were many I'd have loved to have helped burn to the ground
BrettMRC, hope you've got a great big photo of that race start on your man cave wall can you post up a pic
BrettMRC said:
sandman77 said:
BrettMRC said:
Talk to me once you're responsible for two cars catching fire on the grid.... 
That sounds like a story you need to share with us. Shame it was the wrong drawing... all going really well until the end of the formation lap. (1999 Australia, and then even the revised part caused issues later on in year.)
Vague memories of being a really disappointed kid as I liked Stewart
tight fart said:
I read today that Lewis feels he is to far forward over the front axle to feel comfortable, and that’s where the car needs redesigning.
Guess it depends which article and time of day. He's mentioned most general areas with the car bar reliability and he's said he's not comfortable or 'connected'. Obviously confidence in the machinery is a big thing and that's clearly shot to pieces, but even without that he was 2nd in FP1. I feel like an early Hamilton would probably be wringing this car to comfortable 3rds (especially as Ferrari don't seem to be capable of not causing themselves issues) but having a car that's only 90% of the way there compared to what he's used to probably feels rather disconcerting.
tight fart said:
I read today that Lewis feels he is to far forward over the front axle to feel comfortable, and that’s where the car needs redesigning.
I can't see them redesigning the car to move him further backwards. That means piling the oily bits up on top of each other more - a pretty big tear up.FNG said:
tight fart said:
I read today that Lewis feels he is to far forward over the front axle to feel comfortable, and that’s where the car needs redesigning.
I can't see them redesigning the car to move him further backwards. That means piling the oily bits up on top of each other more - a pretty big tear up.tight fart said:
I read today that Lewis feels he is to far forward over the front axle to feel comfortable, and that’s where the car needs redesigning.
Just did some quick maths, think it’s right.Tyre peak grip will be at a slip angle of 5-10 degrees typically. Of course this angle is zero when in a straight line.
So On turn in you want to get tbr rear tyres to the slip angle that gives peak grip. This means initially the rear end will slide. As the slip angle increases the grip will rise until the rate of ‘acceleration of the slide’ slows and the tyre is established at a stable slip angle, ideally close to the peak grip angle.
Sensing that transition from sliding to approaching optimum slip angle is what Hamilton is talking about when he says he can’t feel the rear.
The slip angle is the angle formed between the direction the tyres are point and the direction the car is going.
How much less lateral movement would the driver feel or be accelerated through for each 10cm forwards you move them? (For 8 deg slip)? It’s 1.4cm less. So very noticeable…
Muzzer79 said:
FNG said:
tight fart said:
I read today that Lewis feels he is to far forward over the front axle to feel comfortable, and that’s where the car needs redesigning.
I can't see them redesigning the car to move him further backwards. That means piling the oily bits up on top of each other more - a pretty big tear up.I would expect that in a well designed car the vertical CoG axis should run through the driver’s scull. While they cant move the drivers this year, they can move the CoG by repositioning the radiators and other stuff within the pods to make a significant difference. Lewis has said that just copying the RB pod profile in itself will not sort every aspect of his issues.
I presume this is another consequence of these bloated behemoths being so close to the weight limit and so teams being unable to move ballast around during set-up for a circuit. Lewis will have been moving his seat back and forth since his early karting days to feel part of the vehicle on a given circuit.
An interesting thought. Hamilton is 11cm shorter than Russell. The tub will be designed around George. Is Hamilton sitting further forward due to this?
A quick look suggests Hamilton has done better against team mates who are around his height, and less so against those who are taller.
Obv may be entirely coincidental
A quick look suggests Hamilton has done better against team mates who are around his height, and less so against those who are taller.
Obv may be entirely coincidental
skwdenyer said:
An interesting thought. Hamilton is 11cm shorter than Russell. The tub will be designed around George. Is Hamilton sitting further forward due to this?
A quick look suggests Hamilton has done better against team mates who are around his height, and less so against those who are taller.
Obv may be entirely coincidental
They have to be a defined distance behind the front wheels I believe and the rear bulkhead is fixed so he'd be sitting further behind if anything no? As they have to accommodate Russell's longer legs and torso. A quick look suggests Hamilton has done better against team mates who are around his height, and less so against those who are taller.
Obv may be entirely coincidental
Their heads will be in the same place then the pedal box moved forward and back depending on driver height.
Sandpit Steve said:
Well, they’ll be pretty happy this morning. 2nd and 3rd on the grid tomorrow.
The problem is that they’re the wrong way around. GR will be trying to stay ahead of LH, ditto LH trying to get ahead of GR to attack MV, which will leave FA to get past them both.GR is a fast driver but Merc are making a mistake in my view allowing both drivers to do their own thing. GR is the future but he should be made to defer to LH while the team are trying to catch up to the front. Once they’re at the front the drivers can compete all that they want.
Ferrari did something similar with Vettel and LeClerc. Look where they are now. GR is benefiting from LH being there - the team are benefiting. But should they push it such that LH decides to call it quits, where will that leave them?
There’s only so many races that LH will allow himself to be beaten by GR without any chance of winning a race or the WDC, before he’ll start to consider his position. Winning is everything, losing is no where.
rdjohn said:
I would expect that in a well designed car the vertical CoG axis should run through the driver’s scull. While they cant move the drivers this year, they can move the CoG by repositioning the radiators and other stuff within the pods to make a significant difference. Lewis has said that just copying the RB pod profile in itself will not sort every aspect of his issues.
No they can't, the CoG longitudinally is strictly limited into a tiny range by the regs.PhillipM said:
rdjohn said:
I would expect that in a well designed car the vertical CoG axis should run through the driver’s scull. While they cant move the drivers this year, they can move the CoG by repositioning the radiators and other stuff within the pods to make a significant difference. Lewis has said that just copying the RB pod profile in itself will not sort every aspect of his issues.
No they can't, the CoG longitudinally is strictly limited into a tiny range by the regs.4.2 Mass distribution
With the car resting on a horizontal plane the mass measured at the front and rear axles must not be less than the mass specified in Article 4.1 factored by 0.445 and 0.540 respectively at all times during the qualifying practice session. Rounding will be to nearest 0.5kg.
If, when required for checking, a car is not already fitted with dry-weather tyres, its mass will be determined using a set of dry-weather tyres selected by the FIA technical delegate
But I would expect that it moves around a lot during a race, for each corner, with fuel burn and the dynamic loads created by the floor and wings.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff