What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?

[HustleRussell]

sparta6 said:

Muzzer79 said:

sparta6 said:

What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?


Wolff searching for a new Michael Schumacher to close down their performance gap


good luck with that Toto

I doubt that.

They had the actual Michael Schumacher for a while and all he managed to do was trundle around in 8th, getting whipped by his young team mate.

yeah MSC should have stayed retired. Rosberg didn't deserve a medal for getting ahead of the old man

Would explain the decision to sign Mick Schumacher as development and reserve...

[sparta6]

Snappy89 said:

sparta6 said:

What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?


Wolff searching for a new Michael Schumacher to close down their performance gap


good luck with that Toto

They already have one so let's not start those silly comments.

But do they ?
If you're referring to Ham why isn't he taking a similar fight to Red Bull ?


Williams FW17
With what was regarded as the best chassis and aerodynamics in the field combined with the best engine, the 1995 season was disappointing for the team, who were beaten to both titles by Michael Schumacher. Although the FW17 was superior in qualifying trim, taking 12 pole positions, Schumacher was usually more competitive on race day. The Benetton team arguably made better strategy decisions during races and Schumacher was able to win nine races against Hill and Coulthard's combined total of five. This situation was not helped by both drivers making several unfortunate errors during the course of the season.

[sparta6]

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

Muzzer79 said:

sparta6 said:

What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?


Wolff searching for a new Michael Schumacher to close down their performance gap


good luck with that Toto

I doubt that.

They had the actual Michael Schumacher for a while and all he managed to do was trundle around in 8th, getting whipped by his young team mate.

yeah MSC should have stayed retired. Rosberg didn't deserve a medal for getting ahead of the old man

Would explain the decision to sign Mick Schumacher as development and reserve...

but we know Mick is no Michael

[Leithen]

sparta6 said:

but we know Mick is no Michael

I’m increasingly of the opinion that we have no idea how good Mick is, but we do know that HAAS is fundamentally st.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Mercury00 said:

I hate this attitude that only the big budget team deserve to win

I agree the team with the biggest spend shouldn't be allowed to win another race.

[Muzzer79]

sparta6 said:

Snappy89 said:

sparta6 said:

What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?


Wolff searching for a new Michael Schumacher to close down their performance gap


good luck with that Toto

They already have one so let's not start those silly comments.

But do they ?
If you're referring to Ham why isn't he taking a similar fight to Red Bull ?


Williams FW17
With what was regarded as the best chassis and aerodynamics in the field combined with the best engine, the 1995 season was disappointing for the team, who were beaten to both titles by Michael Schumacher. Although the FW17 was superior in qualifying trim, taking 12 pole positions, Schumacher was usually more competitive on race day. The Benetton team arguably made better strategy decisions during races and Schumacher was able to win nine races against Hill and Coulthard's combined total of five. This situation was not helped by both drivers making several unfortunate errors during the course of the season.

You gave the reasons in your own posts?

Mercedes aren't making better strategy decisions (at least Red Bull aren't making wrong ones) and the Red Bull drivers aren't making several unfortunate errors.

This coupled with the fact of course that you're comparing this year's Mercedes and Red Bull to the '95 Williams and Benetton.

A more accurate comparison would be the '95 Williams vs the '95 Ferrari or McLaren. A reasonable car, but fundamentally not equipped to win the title.

[sparta6]

Muzzer79 said:

sparta6 said:

Snappy89 said:

sparta6 said:

What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?


Wolff searching for a new Michael Schumacher to close down their performance gap


good luck with that Toto

They already have one so let's not start those silly comments.

But do they ?
If you're referring to Ham why isn't he taking a similar fight to Red Bull ?


Williams FW17
With what was regarded as the best chassis and aerodynamics in the field combined with the best engine, the 1995 season was disappointing for the team, who were beaten to both titles by Michael Schumacher. Although the FW17 was superior in qualifying trim, taking 12 pole positions, Schumacher was usually more competitive on race day. The Benetton team arguably made better strategy decisions during races and Schumacher was able to win nine races against Hill and Coulthard's combined total of five. This situation was not helped by both drivers making several unfortunate errors during the course of the season.

You gave the reasons in your own posts?

Mercedes aren't making better strategy decisions (at least Red Bull aren't making wrong ones) and the Red Bull drivers aren't making several unfortunate errors.

This coupled with the fact of course that you're comparing this year's Mercedes and Red Bull to the '95 Williams and Benetton.

A more accurate comparison would be the '95 Williams vs the '95 Ferrari or McLaren. A reasonable car, but fundamentally not equipped to win the title.

Keep ignoring the most important component:

"Schumacher was usually more competitive on race day"

MSC embarrased the mighty Williams and Newey.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Did you watch those races and the numerous controversy of Beneton?

[BoRED S2upid]

I don’t see why they didn’t change the sidepod issue pre season. I was very surprised to still see it on this years cars. They are obviously seeing something somewhere that nobody else is seeing.

[Siao]

sparta6 said:

Muzzer79 said:

sparta6 said:

What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?


Wolff searching for a new Michael Schumacher to close down their performance gap


good luck with that Toto

I doubt that.

They had the actual Michael Schumacher for a while and all he managed to do was trundle around in 8th, getting whipped by his young team mate.

yeah MSC should have stayed retired. Rosberg didn't deserve a medal for getting ahead of the old man

Knowing that Rosberg looked a prime Hamilton in the eye and even won in 2016, I don't think the old man did too badly all things considered.

[Siao]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

Did you watch those races and the numerous controversy of Beneton?

In 1995? Please, do tell

[sparta6]

Siao said:

sparta6 said:

Muzzer79 said:

sparta6 said:

What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?


Wolff searching for a new Michael Schumacher to close down their performance gap


good luck with that Toto

I doubt that.

They had the actual Michael Schumacher for a while and all he managed to do was trundle around in 8th, getting whipped by his young team mate.

yeah MSC should have stayed retired. Rosberg didn't deserve a medal for getting ahead of the old man

Knowing that Rosberg looked a prime Hamilton in the eye and even won in 2016, I don't think the old man did too badly all things considered.

True.
Fastest at Monaco Quali was pretty decent for an old guy in a non-front running car.

Must've downed a pint of Omega 3 beforehand.

[PhilAsia]

sparta6 said:

Siao said:

sparta6 said:

Muzzer79 said:

sparta6 said:

What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?


Wolff searching for a new Michael Schumacher to close down their performance gap


good luck with that Toto

I doubt that.

They had the actual Michael Schumacher for a while and all he managed to do was trundle around in 8th, getting whipped by his young team mate.

yeah MSC should have stayed retired. Rosberg didn't deserve a medal for getting ahead of the old man

Knowing that Rosberg looked a prime Hamilton in the eye and even won in 2016, I don't think the old man did too badly all things considered.

True.
Fastest at Monaco Quali was pretty decent for an old guy in a non-front running car.

Must've downed a pint of Omega 3 beforehand.

I thought at the same age as Alonso, 41, Schumi performed very poorly.

Rosberg is also very underestimated. He outperformed Schumi in every measurable area over three seasons:

Podiums

Fastest laps

Overtakes

Qualifying

In the rain

And points in three seasons - two seasons having double Schumi's points.

Schumi was eclipsed by his equal status team mate.

[Gad-Westy]

sparta6 said:

Snappy89 said:

sparta6 said:

What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?


Wolff searching for a new Michael Schumacher to close down their performance gap


good luck with that Toto

They already have one so let's not start those silly comments.

But do they ?
If you're referring to Ham why isn't he taking a similar fight to Red Bull ?


Williams FW17
With what was regarded as the best chassis and aerodynamics in the field combined with the best engine, the 1995 season was disappointing for the team, who were beaten to both titles by Michael Schumacher. Although the FW17 was superior in qualifying trim, taking 12 pole positions, Schumacher was usually more competitive on race day. The Benetton team arguably made better strategy decisions during races and Schumacher was able to win nine races against Hill and Coulthard's combined total of five. This situation was not helped by both drivers making several unfortunate errors during the course of the season.

Hmmm, I wonder if you made the same arguments for Red Bull when they were trailing Merc. Should they have ditched MV and gone searching for a magic new Schumacher? Or shall we accept that we're talking about top class drivers who have nothing to prove and that some cars are just faster than others?

Edited by Gad-Westy on Thursday 9th March 10:23

[NRS]

ralphrj said:

I read an explanation of the weekend of why Mercedes persevered with the W13 but are already talking of re-doing the W14.

The W13 generated plenty of downforce on paper (or on computer more likely) and in the wind tunnel but couldn't repeat the performance on track as it kept porpoising. The theory was that if they could solve the porpoising then they knew they were as fast or faster than Red Bull. Hence, they kept working on it.

The W14 is exactly as fast as it was designed to be but Red Bull, Aston Martin and Ferrari are all faster. The W14 has no fundamental problem that is preventing is from achieving its ultimate performance. Hence, they feel like they have gone down a dead end in terms of concept.

That’s very much my feeling. The computer said this would be a good design again, real life shows it doesn’t work so you’d be stupid to continue down the same route. Hence bailing out so quickly. It will have been thought through before, not a panic comment.

[Muzzer79]

Gad-Westy said:

sparta6 said:

Snappy89 said:

sparta6 said:

What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?


Wolff searching for a new Michael Schumacher to close down their performance gap


good luck with that Toto

They already have one so let's not start those silly comments.

But do they ?
If you're referring to Ham why isn't he taking a similar fight to Red Bull ?


Williams FW17
With what was regarded as the best chassis and aerodynamics in the field combined with the best engine, the 1995 season was disappointing for the team, who were beaten to both titles by Michael Schumacher. Although the FW17 was superior in qualifying trim, taking 12 pole positions, Schumacher was usually more competitive on race day. The Benetton team arguably made better strategy decisions during races and Schumacher was able to win nine races against Hill and Coulthard's combined total of five. This situation was not helped by both drivers making several unfortunate errors during the course of the season.

Hmmm, I wonder if you made the same arguments for Reb Bull when they were trailing Merc. Should they have ditched MV and gone searching for a magic new Schumacher? Or shall we accept that we're talking about top class drivers who have nothing to prove and that some cars are just faster than others?

Sparta will be along in a minute to explain to you how nobody can touch Schumacher, principally because he bought pizza for his mechanics when they were testing at Fiorano.

Pizza-power.......they key to any multi-championship bid

[HustleRussell]

PhilAsia said:

sparta6 said:

Siao said:

sparta6 said:

Muzzer79 said:

They had the actual Michael Schumacher for a while and all he managed to do was trundle around in 8th, getting whipped by his young team mate.

yeah MSC should have stayed retired. Rosberg didn't deserve a medal for getting ahead of the old man

Knowing that Rosberg looked a prime Hamilton in the eye and even won in 2016, I don't think the old man did too badly all things considered.

True.
Fastest at Monaco Quali was pretty decent for an old guy in a non-front running car.

Must've downed a pint of Omega 3 beforehand.

I thought at the same age as Alonso, 41, Schumi performed very poorly.

Rosberg is also very underestimated. He outperformed Schumi in every measurable area over three seasons:

Podiums

Fastest laps

Overtakes

Qualifying

In the rain

And points in three seasons - two seasons having double Schumi's points.

Schumi was eclipsed by his equal status team mate.

It's obviously not at all fair to compare Schumacher to other drivers by his unretirement years.

Apart from being old, Schumacher was coming back from both an extended period where he hadn't raced and an injury.

Leaving the sport on grooved tyres and then returning on slicks. One year on Bridgestones and then adapting to Pirelli tyres, which completely changed the shape of the races, at 42...

I very much doubt there was a public expectation from MSC or the team that Michael was going to out-perform the young gun.

I expect Michael privately thought he might fare better than he did but I think Michael was very brave to come back, and climbed a mountain during those years. Obviously his value to the team was far greater than the driving alone, and he is one of the handful of people who get credited with the its ongoing success.

Alonso's a different thing entirely. Doesn't appear to have ever even contemplated retirement, raced every year and never slowed down, no kids etc.

[Siao]

HustleRussell said:

PhilAsia said:

sparta6 said:

Siao said:

sparta6 said:

Muzzer79 said:

They had the actual Michael Schumacher for a while and all he managed to do was trundle around in 8th, getting whipped by his young team mate.

yeah MSC should have stayed retired. Rosberg didn't deserve a medal for getting ahead of the old man

Knowing that Rosberg looked a prime Hamilton in the eye and even won in 2016, I don't think the old man did too badly all things considered.

True.
Fastest at Monaco Quali was pretty decent for an old guy in a non-front running car.

Must've downed a pint of Omega 3 beforehand.

I thought at the same age as Alonso, 41, Schumi performed very poorly.

Rosberg is also very underestimated. He outperformed Schumi in every measurable area over three seasons:

Podiums

Fastest laps

Overtakes

Qualifying

In the rain

And points in three seasons - two seasons having double Schumi's points.

Schumi was eclipsed by his equal status team mate.

It's obviously not at all fair to compare Schumacher to other drivers by his unretirement years.

Apart from being old, Schumacher was coming back from both an extended period where he hadn't raced and an injury.

Leaving the sport on grooved tyres and then returning on slicks. One year on Bridgestones and then adapting to Pirelli tyres, which completely changed the shape of the races, at 42...

I very much doubt there was a public expectation from MSC or the team that Michael was going to out-perform the young gun.

I expect Michael privately thought he might fare better than he did but I think Michael was very brave to come back, and climbed a mountain during those years. Obviously his value to the team was far greater than the driving alone, and he is one of the handful of people who get credited with the its ongoing success.

Alonso's a different thing entirely. Doesn't appear to have ever even contemplated retirement, raced every year and never slowed down, no kids etc.

Agreed. Add to that the fact that he couldn't do sim (he was getting nausea), and with limited on track testing he was somewhat disadvantaged.

Michael's mission was to kick-start the Merc team and that much was accomplished.

He did catch up with Rosberg by 2012, but he was also making lots of mistakes. He just wasn't creme de la creme anymore, but still good enough for F1.

[angrymoby]

HustleRussell said:

It's obviously not at all fair to compare Schumacher to other drivers by his unretirement years.

Apart from being old, Schumacher was coming back from both an extended period where he hadn't raced and an injury.

Leaving the sport on grooved tyres and then returning on slicks. One year on Bridgestones and then adapting to Pirelli tyres, which completely changed the shape of the races, at 42...

I very much doubt there was a public expectation from MSC or the team that Michael was going to out-perform the young gun.

I expect Michael privately thought he might fare better than he did but I think Michael was very brave to come back, and climbed a mountain during those years. Obviously his value to the team was far greater than the driving alone, and he is one of the handful of people who get credited with the its ongoing success.

Alonso's a different thing entirely. Doesn't appear to have ever even contemplated retirement, raced every year and never slowed down, no kids etc.

Schumacher fans will say the above ...everyone else will say it's his lack of number one status (i doubt Alonso has that contractually at AM) & not being able to pound around Maranello for millions of laps (no one can doubt his work ethic)

I go with the latter

[Muzzer79]

HustleRussell said:

Apart from being old, Schumacher was coming back from both an extended period where he hadn't raced and an injury.

Leaving the sport on grooved tyres and then returning on slicks. One year on Bridgestones and then adapting to Pirelli tyres, which completely changed the shape of the races, at 42...

I very much doubt there was a public expectation from MSC or the team that Michael was going to out-perform the young gun.

I expect Michael privately thought he might fare better than he did but I think Michael was very brave to come back, and climbed a mountain during those years. Obviously his value to the team was far greater than the driving alone, and he is one of the handful of people who get credited with the its ongoing success.

If he couldn't cut it, he shouldn't have come back or should have cut his tenure short.

Mercedes didn't pay him $20m-odd to be the second driver. They paid him to lead the team and out-perform the car. He failed, at least at the second part of that.

I'm sure his presence drove the team to some degree; working with "the great" Michael Schumacher and all that. His team ethic was also not in question.

He is undoubtedly a part of Mercedes' story but to credit him for any significant part, let alone being a cornerstone, of Mercedes' subsequent success as some people do is a fallacy.