Prost and Ferrari
Discussion
Some, as usual when Alain talks openly, fascinating stuff on his recent pod with Tom Clarkson.
Two things
One, that within weeks of ending it in 91, Luca was talking to him about getting together again after the whole thing was changed and Luca came back into he fold, possibly would have been disastrous considering how bad the 92 car was,
But even more interesting Alain actually talked to Jean Todt about partnering Michael in 96 solely as a number 2 driver to help the team. A lot of people have a picture painted of Prost/Ferrari, the truck comment etc, but he loved being at Ferrari and this was a genuine discussion as they knew it was going to take a lot of work to get Ferrari to the level needed.
I do not doubt for a minute there were selfish reasons behind the talk, but in the interview Prost is clear this was about helping the team, he could see what was going to happen there in the future and wanted to s help the get there, he was out of the sport for years admitted in the piece he was never going to try and beat Micheal, he was not that driver anymore, this was about helping Ferrari and maybe in his own mind repairing the damage done by both in 91.
He also says it was Todt and no doubt Weber/Michael that took it no further!
Two things
One, that within weeks of ending it in 91, Luca was talking to him about getting together again after the whole thing was changed and Luca came back into he fold, possibly would have been disastrous considering how bad the 92 car was,
But even more interesting Alain actually talked to Jean Todt about partnering Michael in 96 solely as a number 2 driver to help the team. A lot of people have a picture painted of Prost/Ferrari, the truck comment etc, but he loved being at Ferrari and this was a genuine discussion as they knew it was going to take a lot of work to get Ferrari to the level needed.
I do not doubt for a minute there were selfish reasons behind the talk, but in the interview Prost is clear this was about helping the team, he could see what was going to happen there in the future and wanted to s help the get there, he was out of the sport for years admitted in the piece he was never going to try and beat Micheal, he was not that driver anymore, this was about helping Ferrari and maybe in his own mind repairing the damage done by both in 91.
He also says it was Todt and no doubt Weber/Michael that took it no further!
LukeBrown66 said:
Some, as usual when Alain talks openly, fascinating stuff on his recent pod with Tom Clarkson.
Two things
One, that within weeks of ending it in 91, Luca was talking to him about getting together again after the whole thing was changed and Luca came back into he fold, possibly would have been disastrous considering how bad the 92 car was,
But even more interesting Alain actually talked to Jean Todt about partnering Michael in 96 solely as a number 2 driver to help the team. A lot of people have a picture painted of Prost/Ferrari, the truck comment etc, but he loved being at Ferrari and this was a genuine discussion as they knew it was going to take a lot of work to get Ferrari to the level needed.
I do not doubt for a minute there were selfish reasons behind the talk, but in the interview Prost is clear this was about helping the team, he could see what was going to happen there in the future and wanted to s help the get there, he was out of the sport for years admitted in the piece he was never going to try and beat Micheal, he was not that driver anymore, this was about helping Ferrari and maybe in his own mind repairing the damage done by both in 91.
He also says it was Todt and no doubt Weber/Michael that took it no further!
I was riveted to it. He's very articulate and has fantastic recall. I was watching a documentary recently about Tyson and Holyfield being great friends today and wondered how an older Prost and Senna would have been a fantastic story.Two things
One, that within weeks of ending it in 91, Luca was talking to him about getting together again after the whole thing was changed and Luca came back into he fold, possibly would have been disastrous considering how bad the 92 car was,
But even more interesting Alain actually talked to Jean Todt about partnering Michael in 96 solely as a number 2 driver to help the team. A lot of people have a picture painted of Prost/Ferrari, the truck comment etc, but he loved being at Ferrari and this was a genuine discussion as they knew it was going to take a lot of work to get Ferrari to the level needed.
I do not doubt for a minute there were selfish reasons behind the talk, but in the interview Prost is clear this was about helping the team, he could see what was going to happen there in the future and wanted to s help the get there, he was out of the sport for years admitted in the piece he was never going to try and beat Micheal, he was not that driver anymore, this was about helping Ferrari and maybe in his own mind repairing the damage done by both in 91.
He also says it was Todt and no doubt Weber/Michael that took it no further!
There is no question he made a huge change at Ferrari in spite of Cesare Fiorio attempting to f
k everything up. In early 1990 it looked like he had made a bad choice but he drove a string of impeccable races and much like Alonso two decades later, took an inferior Ferrari to within a whisker of a championship. Mansell couldn't fathom how Prost was fighting for the championship since he didn't understand that there was much more to it than just pure speed (on which Nigel was probably ahead).I remember press comments at the time that Luca rejoined just a few weeks after Prost had departed and how they could have built a formidable alliance, the building blocks were already being put together. Even though 1991 was a terrible season Prost nearly also won the French GP.
The truck reaction was Italian hysterics, he wasn't wrong.
Scrolling back a bit, I found this - https://podfollow.com/f1-beyond-the-grid/episode/8...
An earlier interview with Prost.
An earlier interview with Prost.
Was a great interview.
Was nice to hear something other then a focus on the Mclaren Senna vs Prost era in an interview with him (although it was still touched on).
The bit about the '93 season was pretty fascinating, the fight between driver and engineering on the car and how the setup was more or less taken out of the drivers hands and how he played with removing certain elements i.e power steering/abs to get some feel back. Not entirely surprising, but Interesting how he remembers specific car setups for some of the cars he raced in at certain tracks.
Would be interesting to compare some of the current crop in terms of engineering input compared to the sorts of feedback that Alains generation would be able to give back.
Tom's interviews are generally pretty bang on if anyone hasn't encountered the podcast previously.
Was nice to hear something other then a focus on the Mclaren Senna vs Prost era in an interview with him (although it was still touched on).
The bit about the '93 season was pretty fascinating, the fight between driver and engineering on the car and how the setup was more or less taken out of the drivers hands and how he played with removing certain elements i.e power steering/abs to get some feel back. Not entirely surprising, but Interesting how he remembers specific car setups for some of the cars he raced in at certain tracks.
Would be interesting to compare some of the current crop in terms of engineering input compared to the sorts of feedback that Alains generation would be able to give back.
Tom's interviews are generally pretty bang on if anyone hasn't encountered the podcast previously.
I would imagine Patrese had similar comments about the 1992 car, a car which in the interview Prost said he found to his liking far more than the 93 car.
What this piece shows is that Williams were not a massively friendly team, both Ayrton and Alain came from long stints at McLaren and said broadly similar things in that it was all about being a driver nothing more.
What this piece shows is that Williams were not a massively friendly team, both Ayrton and Alain came from long stints at McLaren and said broadly similar things in that it was all about being a driver nothing more.
LukeBrown66 said:
What this piece shows is that Williams were not a massively friendly team, both Ayrton and Alain came from long stints at McLaren and said broadly similar things in that it was all about being a driver nothing more.
I found it surprising coming from Prost. I would have thought he would not have been affected too much but then it shows there's more to being an F1 driver than pounding laps just to gain data for engineers and extracting performance on race weekends.Offering to drive for Ferrari was interesting and never heard of before considering he turned down McLaren. Prost, like Schumi after him, struggled with life away from F1 in the 90s.
Indeed, the more I,listen to Alain the more I realise he is vastly under rated, yes he was a politician, but so many others were, Piquet, Senna, Stewart, Scheckter, Pironi, they all were good at it. Prost just did it very well and the media all thought it was collusion with Balestre, I am sure the daft bugger favoured Alain but I would hope Alain did not curry favour with him.
I get the impression that environment was key for Alain and he never felt happy at Wiliams, no doubt mainly due to them and Renault constantly favouring Senna. I think if I could take a year off and be paid countless millions for doing sod all after 4 world titles I would too, fair play to him!
I get the impression that environment was key for Alain and he never felt happy at Wiliams, no doubt mainly due to them and Renault constantly favouring Senna. I think if I could take a year off and be paid countless millions for doing sod all after 4 world titles I would too, fair play to him!
LukeBrown66 said:
Indeed, the more I,listen to Alain the more I realise he is vastly under rated, yes he was a politician, but so many others were, Piquet, Senna, Stewart, Scheckter, Pironi, they all were good at it. Prost just did it very well and the media all thought it was collusion with Balestre, I am sure the daft bugger favoured Alain but I would hope Alain did not curry favour with him.
I get the impression that environment was key for Alain and he never felt happy at Wiliams, no doubt mainly due to them and Renault constantly favouring Senna. I think if I could take a year off and be paid countless millions for doing sod all after 4 world titles I would too, fair play to him!
Prost at Williams was something of a marriage of convenience but Renault certainly seemed to support it, perhaps as a way of completing unfinished business from 1983.I get the impression that environment was key for Alain and he never felt happy at Wiliams, no doubt mainly due to them and Renault constantly favouring Senna. I think if I could take a year off and be paid countless millions for doing sod all after 4 world titles I would too, fair play to him!
I'm not sure how Williams and Renault could favour Senna over Prost in 1993 when Senna was driving for McLaren-Ford.
Prost had 3 titles when he took his sabbatical in 1992, his 4th came with Williams in 1993.
Because Renault and Williams even in early 93 were trying to get Prost to agree to Senna coming in 94, Alain had specifically added to his contract that any team mate was fine part from Ayrton as he feared a repeat, quite rightly of 89. He was in a position to do this and Frank reneged on it thereby forcing him to pay Alain full salary with no driving in 94. Alain may be politriocal but he was also very stubborn, he know what would happen, Renault, Williams, everyone would start to favour Ayrton, the same stuff would happen again, hence the contract amendment.
I understand the haters, but unless you were in that position, I do not think you can condemn a man who built an empire at McLaren only to see it brought down by himself, Honda and Senna, he saw the likely result at Wiliams and quit early on full pay. I do not blame him.
I understand the haters, but unless you were in that position, I do not think you can condemn a man who built an empire at McLaren only to see it brought down by himself, Honda and Senna, he saw the likely result at Wiliams and quit early on full pay. I do not blame him.
Sigh.
Ok, again: there wasn’t collusion between JMB and Prost. The media back then didn’t hype anything up about it. Maybe the British Press tried, but MotorSport, AutoSport etc all reported on the same lines, which was that the ONLY thing Prost & Senna agreed on back then was that they were at war with JMB. For his part JMB was equally forthright that he loathed the pair of them and considered himself at war with them.
Ok, again: there wasn’t collusion between JMB and Prost. The media back then didn’t hype anything up about it. Maybe the British Press tried, but MotorSport, AutoSport etc all reported on the same lines, which was that the ONLY thing Prost & Senna agreed on back then was that they were at war with JMB. For his part JMB was equally forthright that he loathed the pair of them and considered himself at war with them.
LukeBrown66 said:
Because Renault and Williams even in early 93 were trying to get Prost to agree to Senna coming in 94, Alain had specifically added to his contract that any team mate was fine part from Ayrton as he feared a repeat, quite rightly of 89. He was in a position to do this and Frank reneged on it thereby forcing him to pay Alain full salary with no driving in 94. Alain may be politriocal but he was also very stubborn, he know what would happen, Renault, Williams, everyone would start to favour Ayrton, the same stuff would happen again, hence the contract amendment.
I don't buy into the conspiracy theory Williams/Renault favouring Senna. All they wanted was to assemble the best team/driver combo possible because they tried the same trick in '92. Mansell was asked about Prost joining the team and was initially wasn't keen on the idea and more likely in 93 they were hoping Prost, too, would also change his mind.
Prost, true to his word, retired. His reasons for doing so you can make of it what you will: the fear of history repeating itself, Renault eventually favouring Senna...
I disagree, Frank had a major love affair with Senna over many years and you know what would have happened if he went there. Prost was right to make this a part of his contract, he probably expected them to court him. Hence why he did it. He was asked about it in previous interviews and Frank was asking about Senna joining after only a few races, hence why he did not like this year so much.
I am not sure Mansell was unable to sign, i think was more Nigel asking stupid, ridiculous money than anything else, Williams and sponsors had to pay Alain let's remember, so quite where they ever thought they would be able to afford Alain after a title and Senna I do not know, it was never going to work.
I am not sure Mansell was unable to sign, i think was more Nigel asking stupid, ridiculous money than anything else, Williams and sponsors had to pay Alain let's remember, so quite where they ever thought they would be able to afford Alain after a title and Senna I do not know, it was never going to work.
entropy said:
LukeBrown66 said:
Because Renault and Williams even in early 93 were trying to get Prost to agree to Senna coming in 94, Alain had specifically added to his contract that any team mate was fine part from Ayrton as he feared a repeat, quite rightly of 89. He was in a position to do this and Frank reneged on it thereby forcing him to pay Alain full salary with no driving in 94. Alain may be politriocal but he was also very stubborn, he know what would happen, Renault, Williams, everyone would start to favour Ayrton, the same stuff would happen again, hence the contract amendment.
I don't buy into the conspiracy theory Williams/Renault favouring Senna. All they wanted was to assemble the best team/driver combo possible because they tried the same trick in '92. Mansell was asked about Prost joining the team and was initially wasn't keen on the idea and more likely in 93 they were hoping Prost, too, would also change his mind.
Prost, true to his word, retired. His reasons for doing so you can make of it what you will: the fear of history repeating itself, Renault eventually favouring Senna...
LukeBrown66 said:
I disagree, Frank had a major love affair with Senna over many years and you know what would have happened if he went there. Prost was right to make this a part of his contract, he probably expected them to court him. Hence why he did it. He was asked about it in previous interviews and Frank was asking about Senna joining after only a few races, hence why he did not like this year so much.
I am not sure Mansell was unable to sign, i think was more Nigel asking stupid, ridiculous money than anything else, Williams and sponsors had to pay Alain let's remember, so quite where they ever thought they would be able to afford Alain after a title and Senna I do not know, it was never going to work.
On condition of returning to Williams for '91 Mansell wanted to be contracted number 1 driver. In 92 Frank Williams mentioned Prost to Mansell and didn't want the Frenchman as his team-mate and later relented via remuneration demands (money, hotel rooms for the family); compensation for loss of number one status.I am not sure Mansell was unable to sign, i think was more Nigel asking stupid, ridiculous money than anything else, Williams and sponsors had to pay Alain let's remember, so quite where they ever thought they would be able to afford Alain after a title and Senna I do not know, it was never going to work.
Sure, Frank admired Senna, hoping Senna would in future repay his act of giving him his first F1 test drive at Donington Park.
Frank become so enamoured to particular driver? I can't see it.
He was never accused of favouritism. After Reutemann broke his number two status to AJ Williams became less keen to employ them. See Piquet vs. Mansell. When Frank was lying in a hospital bed the Brazillian had the temerity to mention he was the number one driver and even if he was the more likeable driver of the two the unconditional status quo was kept.
As mentioned earlier WGPE can be a cold environment. Even Senna was having difficulty gelling with the team in '94.
Williams are an engineering, performance and results results driven team and the driver just another cog in the machine. Was it not Patrick Head who said F1 drivers are like light bulbs because they can be replaced one after the other?
Williams in and on the cusp of their prime did whatever it took to sign top drivers.
Piblo
if you have nothing worthwhile to ad, why bother? Oh I know, figures.
I am not seeing your point entropy/ Frank TOLD Alain he was trying to sign Ayrton for 94 early in the 93 season, he was asked if he would change his arrangement, and obviously Alain said no. Prost has said on numerous occasions he never asked for no1 status in a team, not Renault, McLaren, ferrari. it just became that way. He even suggested Senna to Ron for 88!
But in this chat, it is clear all this behind the scenes stuff made him realise Wiliams was not for him, and also made it a lot easier to not drive in 94.
if you have nothing worthwhile to ad, why bother? Oh I know, figures.
I am not seeing your point entropy/ Frank TOLD Alain he was trying to sign Ayrton for 94 early in the 93 season, he was asked if he would change his arrangement, and obviously Alain said no. Prost has said on numerous occasions he never asked for no1 status in a team, not Renault, McLaren, ferrari. it just became that way. He even suggested Senna to Ron for 88!
But in this chat, it is clear all this behind the scenes stuff made him realise Wiliams was not for him, and also made it a lot easier to not drive in 94.
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