'kin Hell - just what is the point of modern f1?
Discussion
PhilAsia said:
nickfrog said:
thiscocks said:
That and the stewards getting involved in the racing.
Sorry you don't want the stewards to get involved in the racing ? How does that work? A free for all?I don't recall stewards being massively involved in racing incidents in the 70s, 80s and most of the 90's. The 'free for all' seemed to work fine. They are meant to be the best single seater drivers in the world. Let them get on with it.
Agreed - it is utterly ludicrous for a failed overtaking manoeuvre to result in a steward investigation (what a portentous sounding process for an incident lasting a second ) . And then to dish out a penalty for a driver daring to behave like a racing driver. Even worse is penalising a driver because his car broke...
I don't exempt the drivers from criticism as they are complicit in this stupid penalty regime for on track incidents. Hardly an overtake happens without a chorus , sometimes by both drivers , of 'look at what the horrid man just did '. I wish they would do their job and STFU
I don't exempt the drivers from criticism as they are complicit in this stupid penalty regime for on track incidents. Hardly an overtake happens without a chorus , sometimes by both drivers , of 'look at what the horrid man just did '. I wish they would do their job and STFU
Yes. Sadly I think the current rules just encourage them to behave like that. If the stewards weren’t so over involved then they’d just get on with it. I’m sure they’ll still complain to the team etc but not be demanding another driver be ‘punished’.
Looking at the first moto gp race sadly that is now going the same direction. Any rider who makes a mistake and takes someone else down results in mass vitriol from most riders demanding he be banned ect. Just pathetic.
Looking at the first moto gp race sadly that is now going the same direction. Any rider who makes a mistake and takes someone else down results in mass vitriol from most riders demanding he be banned ect. Just pathetic.
PhilAsia said:
nickfrog said:
thiscocks said:
That and the stewards getting involved in the racing.
Sorry you don't want the stewards to get involved in the racing ? How does that work? A free for all?
mw88 said:
entropy said:
How long before F1 incorporates BoP?
They've already started with the reduction in wind tunnel/CFD time for those who finished higher in the championship.Won't be long before they start adding success ballast and intake restrictors
I don't think this has been mentioned, but fifty years ago, DSJ wrote an interesting article in Motorsport on a similar theme.
For those who didn’t read it at the time (!) or don’t have a huge collection of Motorsport magazines to search through, here it is:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article...
For those who didn’t read it at the time (!) or don’t have a huge collection of Motorsport magazines to search through, here it is:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article...
mat205125 said:
PhilAsia said:
nickfrog said:
thiscocks said:
That and the stewards getting involved in the racing.
Sorry you don't want the stewards to get involved in the racing ? How does that work? A free for all?The stewards' role has always been crucial for the fairness of racing and they obviously need to get involved. Although if they didn't, it would be a hell of a "show", albeit quite a short one
Racing cars where only one line is the quickest is always going to lead to controversial situations and for the stewards it's often a case of damned if they do or damned if they don't.
Having said that I now see that thiscocks probably meant "not get involved quite as much". But even that is not obvious, as extending the run offs has made their role perhaps even more crucial in protecting the fairness of racing, which surely is a crucial part of 'the show" for a lot of fans.
Plinth said:
I don't think this has been mentioned, but fifty years ago, DSJ wrote an interesting article in Motorsport on a similar theme.
For those who didn’t read it at the time (!) or don’t have a huge collection of Motorsport magazines to search through, here it is:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article...
Aging human beings in "it was better in my day" shocker For those who didn’t read it at the time (!) or don’t have a huge collection of Motorsport magazines to search through, here it is:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article...
It's an almost universal constant that everyone seems to think they're miraculously the one / generation that's special, this time it's different etc., whereas in reality it's just the same repeated process over and over because it's an inherent part of the experience/process of aging.
It's good to read it in black and white from 50 years ago though, if you took the dates out and changed some of the driver / car references, that could have been written about half the threads on here!
nickfrog said:
I certainly didn't, hence my post. But if this refers to "the incident", I think we all need to move on, particularly as it wasn't the stewards but the race director.
The stewards' role has always been crucial for the fairness of racing and they obviously need to get involved. Although if they didn't, it would be a hell of a "show", albeit quite a short one
Racing cars where only one line is the quickest is always going to lead to controversial situations and for the stewards it's often a case of damned if they do or damned if they don't.
Having said that I now see that thiscocks probably meant "not get involved quite as much". But even that is not obvious, as extending the run offs has made their role perhaps even more crucial in protecting the fairness of racing, which surely is a crucial part of 'the show" for a lot of fans.
Fortunately nickfrog doesn't get to decide if and when "we need to move on". The stewards did not rule a five second penalty (a la Grosjean?) for the (little bit pregnant) overtake under the Safety Car. The Race Director changed the rules and the FIA did not rule against the fiasco. The stewards' role has always been crucial for the fairness of racing and they obviously need to get involved. Although if they didn't, it would be a hell of a "show", albeit quite a short one
Racing cars where only one line is the quickest is always going to lead to controversial situations and for the stewards it's often a case of damned if they do or damned if they don't.
Having said that I now see that thiscocks probably meant "not get involved quite as much". But even that is not obvious, as extending the run offs has made their role perhaps even more crucial in protecting the fairness of racing, which surely is a crucial part of 'the show" for a lot of fans.
The net result was that the Mercedes team and Lewis' efforts throughout a season became irrelevant/inconsequential An incredible new record of 8 WDCs was consigned to the trash and an unearned WDC was awarded to Max (not his fault btw). I am anticipating Max being supported in his effort become the first 8 time WDC, such is my lack of faith in the FIA following sporting and ethical procedure shown in 2021 and the aftermath, FIA upholding the illegal decision, flimsy penalty for illegal overspends, etc.
I believe I saw that Masi has shown up for this GP as well. Showing yet another staggering lack of shame!!
Had to check the date on this one, but apparently F1 have now banned teams from celebrating their drivers results.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-bans-f1-tea...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-bans-f1-tea...
G321 said:
Had to check the date on this one, but apparently F1 have now banned teams from celebrating their drivers results.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-bans-f1-tea...
No they haven't. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-bans-f1-tea...
SturdyHSV said:
Plinth said:
I don't think this has been mentioned, but fifty years ago, DSJ wrote an interesting article in Motorsport on a similar theme.
For those who didn’t read it at the time (!) or don’t have a huge collection of Motorsport magazines to search through, here it is:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article...
Aging human beings in "it was better in my day" shocker For those who didn’t read it at the time (!) or don’t have a huge collection of Motorsport magazines to search through, here it is:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article...
It's an almost universal constant that everyone seems to think they're miraculously the one / generation that's special, this time it's different etc., whereas in reality it's just the same repeated process over and over because it's an inherent part of the experience/process of aging.
It's good to read it in black and white from 50 years ago though, if you took the dates out and changed some of the driver / car references, that could have been written about half the threads on here!
DSJ said:
I don’t think it is possible to “lose interest” in Grand Prix racing, once you have discovered it. Moments of disenchantment may appear, but loss of interest is unlikely. I may be wrong
I think sums up many of us right now, we’ll find things outside F1, histories, hillclimbs, MotoGP, hell even short oval racing, but deep down, the interest remains….mat205125 said:
mw88 said:
entropy said:
How long before F1 incorporates BoP?
They've already started with the reduction in wind tunnel/CFD time for those who finished higher in the championship.Won't be long before they start adding success ballast and intake restrictors
Stroll's takeover and improving AM and the sudden rise to second best team this year is a coincidence and little to do with the new restrictions IMHO.
We've the had the testing restrictions for a number of years and has little effect on contemporaneous status quo.
coppice said:
Isn't it odd that when teams had budgets a fifth size of today and far more room for design innovation they tested nearly every week but now , "to save costs " , they spend five times more , don't test and yet make almost spec formula cars ?
They were simpler times. You could count the amount of team members with a pair of hands, downforce could be measured with piece of string, and winter testing testing involved going to Brazil and Argentina.I know all that , but it doesn't detract from the essential absurdity of blowing five times more for cars which are more similar than ever before, and which aren't even allowed out on their own.. And yes the cars were simpler - than now - but more sophisticated than ever before in their time . I dare say today's cars are Reliant Robins compared to 2063's effort .
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