'kin Hell - just what is the point of modern f1?

'kin Hell - just what is the point of modern f1?

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Discussion

honda_exige

5,980 posts

205 months

Tuesday 21st March 2023
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Stealthracer said:
4 - No more mashing the throttle through the firewall for 85% of the lap, drivers will have to use their skill to control the throttle instead, particularly when exiting corners.
The skill in driving racing cars isn't in the throttle pedal, its the in the brake pedal. Always has been. Have a read of some of Jackie Stewart's comments about it.

With the short braking distances the skill in that is even higher these days, especially the timing then compensating for downforce bleeding away.

The rest of your recommendations while fun would likely produce cars that aren't much quicker than GT3 cars around a lap.

Stealthracer

7,639 posts

177 months

Tuesday 21st March 2023
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It's not absolute speed that's important, as anyone who's watched 2CV racing will tell you!

Sandpit Steve

9,885 posts

73 months

Tuesday 21st March 2023
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honda_exige said:
The skill in driving racing cars isn't in the throttle pedal, its the in the brake pedal. Always has been. Have a read of some of Jackie Stewart's comments about it.

With the short braking distances the skill in that is even higher these days, especially the timing then compensating for downforce bleeding away.

The rest of your recommendations while fun would likely produce cars that aren't much quicker than GT3 cars around a lap.
The braking performance of a modern F1 car, is the single most impressive aspect of watching live.

It simply doesn’t come across on TV, they never have a good angle of a car going from 200mph to 40mph in the space of 100 yards.

nickfrog

20,871 posts

216 months

Tuesday 21st March 2023
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I am pretty sure that throttle modulation remains a key attribute for F1 drivers, particularly in this era. Otherwise they wouldn't even need to short shift.

Castellet

152 posts

17 months

Tuesday 21st March 2023
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Stealthracer said:
It's not absolute speed that's important, as anyone who's watched 2CV racing will tell you!
Know someone who raced in those.
Said he didn’t have a Speedometer…………. he had a Calendar biggrin

shaunroche

Original Poster:

208 posts

145 months

Tuesday 21st March 2023
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Well, if that's proved one thing it's this: it seems very difficult for a large number of people to give replies without resorting to being offensive, not being able to distinguish between opinion and fact and certainly not being very comfortable with free speech or a difference of opinion.

I am well aware that as I come from a generation of Digital immigrants, those Digital natives have a whole different outlook on the World - it is much more tech and social media based and I can see how that technology etc. is represented in this 'Sport' and their everyday lives.

I know that forums have taken the place of those conversations and arguments that used to take place in the pub - if you made a stupid or baseless comment, you would be laughed at and the conversation would move on...it appears to me the later generations have only ever been able to give their opinions digitally, meaning they have never experienced anyone arguing through a viewpoint different to their own, that opinion becomes fact and anyone with a different view is wrong.

I think I stated I wasn't saying it was better in my day, I was genuinely asking a question - a question which the vast majority either couldn't reply to, or just didn't bother but then again, that's the modern way; give an opinion to a question, don't answer it!

I agree there were some boring races as well as exciting ones in the past, the grooved tyres seasons leave me feeling cold with boredom looking back and who ever it was who suggested it was more exciting because we got to see our Heroes die, well, how you leap from asking why to modern F1 is sh*t to enjoying watching death and injury, well, I really don't know what to say frankly.

As for the comments which said if you find it so boring, why bother watching, you clearly don't understand what you are looking at....well, what I am looking at is a procession, race in race out driven by robots who've been programmed from the age of 4 and trust me, I have a modicum of intellect, I am able to discern what I am looking at and do have the ability, not to watch if I so choose.

It does look like I will stop watching, I find little of interest to look at but one thing's for sure I'll do what suits me and not because someone has told me to stop watching because I don't understand it.

A big thank you to those who bothered to give an answer or were constructive, there weren't many of you!

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Tuesday 21st March 2023
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A post or thread bemoaning F1 is just not very original. In fact it happens very frequently on PH at all times, but particularly when certain patterns inherent to the sport re-occur.

Anyone who has been on here for a while is just tired of it and has learned that nothing good ever comes out of such threads. At the end of the day, if someone starts a thread and the very title is " 'kin Hell - just what is the point of modern f1?", what is the value in trying to turn around a mindset which is clearly entrenched.

However the sport's popularity grows and it has a lot of very loyal fans.

Stealthracer

7,639 posts

177 months

Tuesday 21st March 2023
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shaunroche said:
... It does look like I will stop watching ...
Just remember that if you do stop watching, you will never be able to mention F1 again! They don't like that on here.

LukeBrown66

4,479 posts

45 months

Tuesday 21st March 2023
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Lol, obviously, it matters not that you keep up to date with it news wise or used to watch from the 70's

None of that maters, because it's all about the now and the you.

It's as if there was no f1 before now, especially with the way it is pushed these days.

nickfrog

20,871 posts

216 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
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Shaun I don't know you but if you feel the need to throw insults at Russell despite his fairly reasonable view, you have to accept that you're the one who sounds seriously unhinged, at best.

nickfrog

20,871 posts

216 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
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shaunroche said:
Btw, I take it you are a Southerner?
What is that question supposed to mean or imply?

shaunroche

Original Poster:

208 posts

145 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2023
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nickfrog said:
Shaun I don't know you but if you feel the need to throw insults at Russell despite his fairly reasonable view, you have to accept that you're the one who sounds seriously unhinged, at best.
Hi Nick, I feel that there were at least two insults in the reply in question, neither reasonable and if you feel my seemingly poor attempt at tongue-in-cheek humour displays the hallmarks of someone who is seriously unhinged, then I think you need to recalibrate your understanding of what being seriously unhinged means.

Have a nice day, and I mean that x.

SturdyHSV

10,083 posts

166 months

Friday 24th March 2023
quotequote all
shaunroche said:
Well, if that's proved one thing it's this: it seems very difficult for a large number of people to give replies without resorting to being offensive, not being able to distinguish between opinion and fact and certainly not being very comfortable with free speech or a difference of opinion.

I am well aware that as I come from a generation of Digital immigrants, those Digital natives have a whole different outlook on the World - it is much more tech and social media based and I can see how that technology etc. is represented in this 'Sport' and their everyday lives.

I know that forums have taken the place of those conversations and arguments that used to take place in the pub - if you made a stupid or baseless comment, you would be laughed at and the conversation would move on...it appears to me the later generations have only ever been able to give their opinions digitally, meaning they have never experienced anyone arguing through a viewpoint different to their own, that opinion becomes fact and anyone with a different view is wrong.
Despite this compelling narrative of the "later generations" all being incapable of discussion, the reality of this being on a forum, and this forum inparticular, is you'll (probably) find very few of these fabled digital natives on here.

I think it's fairly commonly accepted that forums are (typically) not where digital natives communicate, and from my skim through the thread, the people with the strongest opinions least interested in discussing them are (typically) those that also insist on telling us which pre-Falklands War decade they've been watching since tongue out

Any time anybody looks in to it, PH on the whole is overwhelmingly men over 50, majority possibly even over 60. I'd be staggered if this sub-forum is any different. As such, I'd suggest the complete lack of ability (or to be charitable, lack of interest) in actual discussion is very unlikely to be justifiably attributable to "later generations".

I could well be wrong, and in fact the endless point scoring arguments are all being carried out by an unusual subset of 20 somethings that are drawn to this rickety old car forum, and will merrily eat my hat when "the kids" chime in to correct me shortly smile

EDIT:

This is intended to be a friendly continuation of discussion, I'm not frothing at you saying you're wrong or anything, just giving my perspective on it as I didn't particularly agree beer

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Friday 24th March 2023
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OP is 20 year my senior! I'm surprised too wink

PhilAsia

3,697 posts

74 months

Friday 24th March 2023
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SturdyHSV said:
.......just giving my perspective on it as I didn't particularly agree beer
I abhor the aggression shown by the "I don't particularly agree" crowd in forums... laugh


nb. tum furnly im cheek btw.

SturdyHSV

10,083 posts

166 months

Friday 24th March 2023
quotequote all
PhilAsia said:
SturdyHSV said:
.......just giving my perspective on it as I didn't particularly agree beer
I abhor the aggression shown by the "I don't particularly agree" crowd in forums... laugh


nb. tum furnly im cheek btw.
I thought I'd put the edit in as I read it back and despite trying to come across neutral it still sounded a bit shouty!

It's really difficult to not sound like a prick in text (I certainly haven't managed it yet!) as you're either concise and come across as blunt and obnoxious, or you try to explain and give context, and come across as a condescending smart arse hehe

sociopath

3,433 posts

65 months

Friday 24th March 2023
quotequote all
Stealthracer said:
Castellet said:
... When I was a kid you could switch on Grandstand and the BBC outside broadcast could be showing F1 or Touring Cars or Sports Cars or the IOM TT or Rally Cross or the RAC or multiple other 2 or 4 wheel racing - even hill climbing.
I remember that!

(Although what I remember most is missing most of it, 'cos my Dad was sat there with the racing pages in his lap, switching over to the horses every 5 minutes.)
I don't remember it, because basically it didn't happen.

PhilAsia

3,697 posts

74 months

Friday 24th March 2023
quotequote all
SturdyHSV said:
PhilAsia said:
SturdyHSV said:
.......just giving my perspective on it as I didn't particularly agree beer
I abhor the aggression shown by the "I don't particularly agree" crowd in forums... laugh


nb. tum furnly im cheek btw.
I thought I'd put the edit in as I read it back and despite trying to come across neutral it still sounded a bit shouty!

It's really difficult to not sound like a prick in text (I certainly haven't managed it yet!) as you're either concise and come across as blunt and obnoxious, or you try to explain and give context, and come across as a condescending smart arse hehe
laugh


Blunt and obnoxious in my case laugh




Stealthracer

7,639 posts

177 months

Friday 24th March 2023
quotequote all
ay I also just mention one of the other things I don't like about modern F1 - the wheels which in years gone by were fine, now look like something that was pinched off a 1950s London bus!

NRS

22,079 posts

200 months

Saturday 25th March 2023
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I think there is a few issues, a lot of what has been said before. One of the main ones not mentioned is that although a lot of the previous decades had cars down a lap the reliability meant it was far from clear if that’s how it would end. These days the reliability is so good it’s a massive shock if someone has an engine failure or similar. So there’s less suspense of it happening.

One of the other issues post liberty in particular is the manipulation of races. It’s always been there but it seems to have increased a bit more now - or is done in a more clumsy way. They like to try and close the pack up if possible to get more overtakes. The issue is F1 isn’t really about a lot of overtakes, there’s other series for that, it’s about the long term strategy and seeing someone close up and wondering if they will be able to pass in the few remaining laps. When they then throw a safety car or bend the rules (like Abu Dhabi 2021) it is actually really obvious what is going to happen for anyone with experience, and so makes it less interesting for them. For the average fan who doesn’t know much it’s more fun as there’s more direct fights - ironically that type of fan would probably be better served by some other series!

I’m also wondering how the price cap will work going forward with rule changes. Before someone would have a big lead, then over some seasons the gap would close at the end of a huge development war. I wonder if the price cap will slow down the amount of development, with the result the teams have not closed up by the next rule change. With unlimited money they’d move as fast as possible to the perfect solution for that set of regulations and run out of places to improve things. If they can only get there slower but have the same pace of regulation changes they might never get to that place where the car is close to perfect and everyone bunches up.