James Key Departs McLaren

[What The Deuces]

Not a huge surprise. Never lived up to the billing really

[Presuming Ed]

Mclaren look like a team of Chiefs already. F1 doesn't operate under committee and i feel they have far too many people at director level and having 3 people replace one in design seems odd.

[What The Deuces]

Presuming Ed said:

Mclaren look like a team of Chiefs already. F1 doesn't operate under committee and i feel they have far too many people at director level and having 3 people replace one in design seems odd.

Actually in their heyday they had a matrix management system which effectively did that. It takes a long time to change the way a company works fundamentally (5 plus years), I think this restructure was planned for when Seidl left, he went early so its all pulled forward. Once this is embedded and the physical assets are complete and up and running if the results don't come then Zak will have failed as he'll have rolled all the dice then in terms of a Finance restructure, investment in assets, investment in personnel and an organisational restructure. Fingers crossed it works. He's a car man and its an historic team.

[deadslow]

What The Deuces said:

Presuming Ed said:

Mclaren look like a team of Chiefs already. F1 doesn't operate under committee and i feel they have far too many people at director level and having 3 people replace one in design seems odd.

Actually in their heyday they had a matrix management system which effectively did that. It takes a long time to change the way a company works fundamentally (5 plus years), I think this restructure was planned for when Seidl left, he went early so its all pulled forward. Once this is embedded and the physical assets are complete and up and running if the results don't come then Zak will have failed as he'll have rolled all the dice then in terms of a Finance restructure, investment in assets, investment in personnel and an organisational restructure. Fingers crossed it works. He's a car man and its an historic team.

did RD not instigate the matrix management system after Newey was poached away, so that no single individual would be so 'uniquely important' going forward?

[What The Deuces]

deadslow said:

did RD not instigate the matrix management system after Newey was poached away, so that no single individual would be so 'uniquely important' going forward?

I think it was then yes

[thegreenhell]

What The Deuces said:

Actually in their heyday they had a matrix management system which effectively did that.

That really depends on your definition of heyday. It was Martin Whitmarsh who instigated that matrix, and took the team from being a regular championship contender to the midfield outfit it's been ever since. All the dominant teams have had a strong, singular leader. No committee ever won anything.

[deadslow]

thegreenhell said:

What The Deuces said:

Actually in their heyday they had a matrix management system which effectively did that.

That really depends on your definition of heyday. It was Martin Whitmarsh who instigated that matrix, and took the team from being a regular championship contender to the midfield outfit it's been ever since. All the dominant teams have had a strong, singular leader. No committee ever won anything.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/no-more-matrix-management-structure-at-mclaren-formula-1-team-4991414/4991414/

[Muzzer79]

thegreenhell said:

What The Deuces said:

Actually in their heyday they had a matrix management system which effectively did that.

That really depends on your definition of heyday. It was Martin Whitmarsh who instigated that matrix, and took the team from being a regular championship contender to the midfield outfit it's been ever since. All the dominant teams have had a strong, singular leader. No committee ever won anything.

At what level are you defining your strong, singular leader?

Because many teams have been led by multiple management.

[entropy]

thegreenhell said:

That really depends on your definition of heyday. It was Martin Whitmarsh who instigated that matrix, and took the team from being a regular championship contender to the midfield outfit it's been ever since. All the dominant teams have had a strong, singular leader. No committee ever won anything.

The matrix system was incorporated in the 90s when Martin Whitmarsh used to work with BAE and F1 teams were growing. I've never been to Business Management School but Newey reckons the system was an insurance policy so that the team wasn't over reliant on single man like himself and when they left the team.

Muzzer79 said:

thegreenhell said:

What The Deuces said:

Actually in their heyday they had a matrix management system which effectively did that.

That really depends on your definition of heyday. It was Martin Whitmarsh who instigated that matrix, and took the team from being a regular championship contender to the midfield outfit it's been ever since. All the dominant teams have had a strong, singular leader. No committee ever won anything.

At what level are you defining your strong, singular leader?

Because many teams have been led by multiple management.

It's very hard to say because they all have fancy titles (Head of this, Director of that) and we don't know how the teams actually operates behind closed doors.

[Fundoreen]

Very odd as mclaren put a real shift in to get him away from the red bull family so must have thought he was good.
Its not a one man job though and there has to be quite a few capable people at a team. Paddy lowe was meant to be top drawer then went to williams and probably found quaint resources.

[TheDeuce]

Fundoreen said:

Very odd as mclaren put a real shift in to get him away from the red bull family so must have thought he was good.
Its not a one man job though and there has to be quite a few capable people at a team. Paddy lowe was meant to be top drawer then went to williams and probably found quaint resources.

perhaps at RB he was able to feed great ideas to a team already well up to speed to deliver them and maximise their potential. It could simply be that at Macca the team in place beneath him wasn't so strong and he lacked the leadership ability to create a downward talent improvement.

Not all great people are great in all situations.

We'll never know anyway, we'll never here the full detail, and any detail we might hear could be BS. All we can know for sure is that the guys at the very top have lost faith in his ability to create improvement.

[Fundoreen]

Alonso has been to blame since 2007 onward. Maybe him doing well now has finally quashed that go to excuse at mclaren.

[Pflanzgarten]

Zak Brown should stick at what he's good at, eating pies and getting stickers on the car.

[Leithen]

Seidl seems to have exited just quick enough to ensure nothing re this years cars performance sticks to him.

[patmahe]

McLaren departures and appointments is starting to feel like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

I'd love them to prove me wrong but it feels like Norris is being wasted there with a promise of future performance that might never ever come.

[InformationSuperHighway]

Zak needs to be team principal or leave.

He’s the charismatic leader but he’s elevated himself too high forming a committee underneath him.

[Sandpit Steve]

patmahe said:

McLaren departures and appointments is starting to feel like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

I'd love them to prove me wrong but it feels like Norris is being wasted there with a promise of future performance that might never ever come.

Yep, Seidl and now Key, two deckchairs on the sinking ship.

Lando must be hoping that Lewis retires at the end of this season, it’s his best chance to ever get into a winnable car.

[Boom78]

Their matrix model I believe was pretty short lived and a total failure. I remember at the time they announced their new matrix our company was also implementing theirs, ours lasted under a year! Great in theory but terrible in practice and hard to execute properly and stick to it. Empowered agile Scrum teams are the new’ish thing in design/tech and works much better.

[What The Deuces]

Sandpit Steve said:

Yep, Seidl and now Key, two deckchairs on the sinking ship.

Lando must be hoping that Lewis retires at the end of this season, it’s his best chance to ever get into a winnable car.

Which car is that?

Zak's issue is that he took over a team with no money and a bunch of ancient out of date assets. It was always going to take a huge amount of time to turn round. I think (hope) its heading in the right direction. I think the first car that comes soley from the new wind tunnel will be the acid test

[PhilAsia]

What The Deuces said:

Sandpit Steve said:

Yep, Seidl and now Key, two deckchairs on the sinking ship.

Lando must be hoping that Lewis retires at the end of this season, it’s his best chance to ever get into a winnable car.

Which car is that?

Zak's issue is that he took over a team with no money and a bunch of ancient out of date assets. It was always going to take a huge amount of time to turn round. I think (hope) its heading in the right direction. I think the first car that comes soley from the new wind tunnel will be the acid test

I hope that they do make a resurgence, although it won't be easy.

McLaren have been my fave F1 favorite team since my Dad worked for them when they were at Poyle Trading Estate in Colnbrook/Datchet. As an impressionable kid I sat in their car outside their factory, imagining...