Official 2023 Australian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Poll: Official 2023 Australian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Total Members Polled: 170
Discussion
honda_exige said:
MustangGT said:
sparta6 said:
Bottas
Alonso, Leclerc or Russell for the 3rd step.
Maybe a bit irrational? Or, perhaps your obvious dislike of Lewis means you will always say George?
Maybe not so irrational when you consider that given they each have 1 race result over the other he picked the driver that has had the superior qualifying in both races so far.
Yes there are some over-sensitive peeps around here.
Expect some Alonso / Russell tangles
Interesting Hamilton saying he's not comfortable with the driving position of the W14 (and W13). Don't recall him mentioning this last year but could be mistaken.
________
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-seat-posit...
We sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers,” said Hamilton. “Our cockpit is too close to the front.
“When you’re driving, you feel like you’re sitting on the front wheels which is one of the worst feelings to feel when you’re driving a car.
“If you were driving your car at home, and you put the wheels right underneath your legs, you would not be happy when you’re approaching the roundabout!
“So, what that does is it just really changes the attitude of the car and how you perceive its movement. And it makes it harder to predict, compared to when you’re further back and you’re sitting closer, more centre.
“It’s just something I’ve really struggled with.”
Asked by The Race if Hamilton had accepted that Mercedes would retain the seating position because of the team’s belief it was part of making the fastest possible car, he replied: “Yeah, I listened to the team and that was the direction that they said that we should go.
________
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-seat-posit...
We sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers,” said Hamilton. “Our cockpit is too close to the front.
“When you’re driving, you feel like you’re sitting on the front wheels which is one of the worst feelings to feel when you’re driving a car.
“If you were driving your car at home, and you put the wheels right underneath your legs, you would not be happy when you’re approaching the roundabout!
“So, what that does is it just really changes the attitude of the car and how you perceive its movement. And it makes it harder to predict, compared to when you’re further back and you’re sitting closer, more centre.
“It’s just something I’ve really struggled with.”
Asked by The Race if Hamilton had accepted that Mercedes would retain the seating position because of the team’s belief it was part of making the fastest possible car, he replied: “Yeah, I listened to the team and that was the direction that they said that we should go.
honda_exige said:
Interesting Hamilton saying he's not comfortable with the driving position of the W14 (and W13). Don't recall him mentioning this last year but could be mistaken.
________
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-seat-posit...
We sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers,” said Hamilton. “Our cockpit is too close to the front.
“When you’re driving, you feel like you’re sitting on the front wheels which is one of the worst feelings to feel when you’re driving a car.
“If you were driving your car at home, and you put the wheels right underneath your legs, you would not be happy when you’re approaching the roundabout!
“So, what that does is it just really changes the attitude of the car and how you perceive its movement. And it makes it harder to predict, compared to when you’re further back and you’re sitting closer, more centre.
“It’s just something I’ve really struggled with.”
Asked by The Race if Hamilton had accepted that Mercedes would retain the seating position because of the team’s belief it was part of making the fastest possible car, he replied: “Yeah, I listened to the team and that was the direction that they said that we should go.
makes sense________
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-seat-posit...
We sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers,” said Hamilton. “Our cockpit is too close to the front.
“When you’re driving, you feel like you’re sitting on the front wheels which is one of the worst feelings to feel when you’re driving a car.
“If you were driving your car at home, and you put the wheels right underneath your legs, you would not be happy when you’re approaching the roundabout!
“So, what that does is it just really changes the attitude of the car and how you perceive its movement. And it makes it harder to predict, compared to when you’re further back and you’re sitting closer, more centre.
“It’s just something I’ve really struggled with.”
Asked by The Race if Hamilton had accepted that Mercedes would retain the seating position because of the team’s belief it was part of making the fastest possible car, he replied: “Yeah, I listened to the team and that was the direction that they said that we should go.
sure I've read various places say as a driver you want the car to pivot round your head. Moving the pivot behind will take some major adjusting to
pablo said:
Sandpit Steve said:
This is getting silly now. A change of leadership at the FIA and race control last year, was supposed to move on from the mess under Todt and Masi - but instead, the mess is still happening, but accompanied by over-zealous policing of the most minor and petty rules.
To be fair, this image shows the problem, 12 men leaning against that angled lattice is going to end in disaster eventually. Yes it’s designed to stop cars at 200 mph but it’s still a risk however unlikely and no one wants to see them fall onto the track
How many times has the fence looked like it would fail after the pit crew have hung off it?
If the answer is zero then it’s an over-zealous rule.
andburg said:
honda_exige said:
Interesting Hamilton saying he's not comfortable with the driving position of the W14 (and W13). Don't recall him mentioning this last year but could be mistaken.
________
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-seat-posit...
We sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers,” said Hamilton. “Our cockpit is too close to the front.
“When you’re driving, you feel like you’re sitting on the front wheels which is one of the worst feelings to feel when you’re driving a car.
“If you were driving your car at home, and you put the wheels right underneath your legs, you would not be happy when you’re approaching the roundabout!
“So, what that does is it just really changes the attitude of the car and how you perceive its movement. And it makes it harder to predict, compared to when you’re further back and you’re sitting closer, more centre.
“It’s just something I’ve really struggled with.”
Asked by The Race if Hamilton had accepted that Mercedes would retain the seating position because of the team’s belief it was part of making the fastest possible car, he replied: “Yeah, I listened to the team and that was the direction that they said that we should go.
makes sense________
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-seat-posit...
We sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers,” said Hamilton. “Our cockpit is too close to the front.
“When you’re driving, you feel like you’re sitting on the front wheels which is one of the worst feelings to feel when you’re driving a car.
“If you were driving your car at home, and you put the wheels right underneath your legs, you would not be happy when you’re approaching the roundabout!
“So, what that does is it just really changes the attitude of the car and how you perceive its movement. And it makes it harder to predict, compared to when you’re further back and you’re sitting closer, more centre.
“It’s just something I’ve really struggled with.”
Asked by The Race if Hamilton had accepted that Mercedes would retain the seating position because of the team’s belief it was part of making the fastest possible car, he replied: “Yeah, I listened to the team and that was the direction that they said that we should go.
sure I've read various places say as a driver you want the car to pivot round your head. Moving the pivot behind will take some major adjusting to
andburg said:
honda_exige said:
Interesting Hamilton saying he's not comfortable with the driving position of the W14 (and W13). Don't recall him mentioning this last year but could be mistaken.
________
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-seat-posit...
We sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers,” said Hamilton. “Our cockpit is too close to the front.
“When you’re driving, you feel like you’re sitting on the front wheels which is one of the worst feelings to feel when you’re driving a car.
“If you were driving your car at home, and you put the wheels right underneath your legs, you would not be happy when you’re approaching the roundabout!
“So, what that does is it just really changes the attitude of the car and how you perceive its movement. And it makes it harder to predict, compared to when you’re further back and you’re sitting closer, more centre.
“It’s just something I’ve really struggled with.”
Asked by The Race if Hamilton had accepted that Mercedes would retain the seating position because of the team’s belief it was part of making the fastest possible car, he replied: “Yeah, I listened to the team and that was the direction that they said that we should go.
makes sense________
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-seat-posit...
We sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers,” said Hamilton. “Our cockpit is too close to the front.
“When you’re driving, you feel like you’re sitting on the front wheels which is one of the worst feelings to feel when you’re driving a car.
“If you were driving your car at home, and you put the wheels right underneath your legs, you would not be happy when you’re approaching the roundabout!
“So, what that does is it just really changes the attitude of the car and how you perceive its movement. And it makes it harder to predict, compared to when you’re further back and you’re sitting closer, more centre.
“It’s just something I’ve really struggled with.”
Asked by The Race if Hamilton had accepted that Mercedes would retain the seating position because of the team’s belief it was part of making the fastest possible car, he replied: “Yeah, I listened to the team and that was the direction that they said that we should go.
sure I've read various places say as a driver you want the car to pivot round your head. Moving the pivot behind will take some major adjusting to
Hard to find calibrated side on views, W14 seems similar to the Aston, both appreciably more 'cab forward' than the McLaren.
If only Sainz had more wins as the Ferrari pitwall don't seem to care much if he wins 
Aside from the 2 photographers that have to be there, and his cousin, only 7 bothered to cheer him on his first ever win in F1. Nice to see a Mclaren member cheering him home though
I think stopping them hanging over the track through the fencing would have been a more balanced approach, but banning them being on top of the angled section is maybe a bit much
One for the historians, in "the good old days" when the flag was enthusiastically waved by a bloke stood on the track, were there ever any incidents?
Aside from the 2 photographers that have to be there, and his cousin, only 7 bothered to cheer him on his first ever win in F1. Nice to see a Mclaren member cheering him home though
I think stopping them hanging over the track through the fencing would have been a more balanced approach, but banning them being on top of the angled section is maybe a bit much
One for the historians, in "the good old days" when the flag was enthusiastically waved by a bloke stood on the track, were there ever any incidents?
SturdyHSV said:
If only Sainz had more wins as the Ferrari pitwall don't seem to care much if he wins
Aside from the 2 photographers that have to be there, and his cousin, only 7 bothered to cheer him on his first ever win in F1. Nice to see a Mclaren member cheering him home though
I think stopping them hanging over the track through the fencing would have been a more balanced approach, but banning them being on top of the angled section is maybe a bit much
One for the historians, in "the good old days" when the flag was enthusiastically waved by a bloke stood on the track, were there ever any incidents?
I can't remember an F1 incident - found this from 2021 Le mans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iBKFfweqKEAside from the 2 photographers that have to be there, and his cousin, only 7 bothered to cheer him on his first ever win in F1. Nice to see a Mclaren member cheering him home though
I think stopping them hanging over the track through the fencing would have been a more balanced approach, but banning them being on top of the angled section is maybe a bit much
One for the historians, in "the good old days" when the flag was enthusiastically waved by a bloke stood on the track, were there ever any incidents?
Mark-C said:
SturdyHSV said:
If only Sainz had more wins as the Ferrari pitwall don't seem to care much if he wins
Aside from the 2 photographers that have to be there, and his cousin, only 7 bothered to cheer him on his first ever win in F1. Nice to see a Mclaren member cheering him home though
I think stopping them hanging over the track through the fencing would have been a more balanced approach, but banning them being on top of the angled section is maybe a bit much
One for the historians, in "the good old days" when the flag was enthusiastically waved by a bloke stood on the track, were there ever any incidents?
I can't remember an F1 incident - found this from 2021 Le mans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iBKFfweqKEAside from the 2 photographers that have to be there, and his cousin, only 7 bothered to cheer him on his first ever win in F1. Nice to see a Mclaren member cheering him home though
I think stopping them hanging over the track through the fencing would have been a more balanced approach, but banning them being on top of the angled section is maybe a bit much
One for the historians, in "the good old days" when the flag was enthusiastically waved by a bloke stood on the track, were there ever any incidents?
honda_exige said:
Always used to find it crazy how far forward the cockpit was on 70s F1 cars.
Hard to find calibrated side on views, W14 seems similar to the Aston, both appreciably more 'cab forward' than the McLaren.
I'd guess this is because of the way they need to shape the tub / fuel tank and recesses for the inboard radiators on the merc. Only way they'll move the driver back would be to move things between them and the engine elsewhere or to shorten the wheelbase by bringing the rear axle forwards, both are definitely next year items.Hard to find calibrated side on views, W14 seems similar to the Aston, both appreciably more 'cab forward' than the McLaren.
andburg said:
honda_exige said:
Interesting Hamilton saying he's not comfortable with the driving position of the W14 (and W13). Don't recall him mentioning this last year but could be mistaken.
________
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-seat-posit...
We sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers,” said Hamilton. “Our cockpit is too close to the front.
“When you’re driving, you feel like you’re sitting on the front wheels which is one of the worst feelings to feel when you’re driving a car.
“If you were driving your car at home, and you put the wheels right underneath your legs, you would not be happy when you’re approaching the roundabout!
“So, what that does is it just really changes the attitude of the car and how you perceive its movement. And it makes it harder to predict, compared to when you’re further back and you’re sitting closer, more centre.
“It’s just something I’ve really struggled with.”
Asked by The Race if Hamilton had accepted that Mercedes would retain the seating position because of the team’s belief it was part of making the fastest possible car, he replied: “Yeah, I listened to the team and that was the direction that they said that we should go.
makes sense________
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-seat-posit...
We sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers,” said Hamilton. “Our cockpit is too close to the front.
“When you’re driving, you feel like you’re sitting on the front wheels which is one of the worst feelings to feel when you’re driving a car.
“If you were driving your car at home, and you put the wheels right underneath your legs, you would not be happy when you’re approaching the roundabout!
“So, what that does is it just really changes the attitude of the car and how you perceive its movement. And it makes it harder to predict, compared to when you’re further back and you’re sitting closer, more centre.
“It’s just something I’ve really struggled with.”
Asked by The Race if Hamilton had accepted that Mercedes would retain the seating position because of the team’s belief it was part of making the fastest possible car, he replied: “Yeah, I listened to the team and that was the direction that they said that we should go.
sure I've read various places say as a driver you want the car to pivot round your head. Moving the pivot behind will take some major adjusting to
Only mention it as I was struggling not to be skeptical about what input he could have really offered but that's another good example that I hadn't thought of.
Also, a better comparison picture from that linked article above:
Edited by SturdyHSV on Thursday 30th March 12:12
Muzzer79 said:
How many times has the fence failed?
How many times has the fence looked like it would fail after the pit crew have hung off it?
If the answer is zero then it’s an over-zealous rule.
That won't stand up in court if it happens in a country such as Italy with their corporate manslaughter rules etc. Probably wouldn't hold up anywhere if an injured person decided to sue.How many times has the fence looked like it would fail after the pit crew have hung off it?
If the answer is zero then it’s an over-zealous rule.
Besides it's not just people leaning on the fence. Many times I've seen them hanging over the track through the access points.
Everyone is always "what a stupid rule" until something happens. I expect many people thought there was nothing wrong with having the transporter ramps a couple of feet off the ground until it wasn't.....
SturdyHSV said:
andburg said:
honda_exige said:
Interesting Hamilton saying he's not comfortable with the driving position of the W14 (and W13). Don't recall him mentioning this last year but could be mistaken.
________
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-seat-posit...
We sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers,” said Hamilton. “Our cockpit is too close to the front.
“When you’re driving, you feel like you’re sitting on the front wheels which is one of the worst feelings to feel when you’re driving a car.
“If you were driving your car at home, and you put the wheels right underneath your legs, you would not be happy when you’re approaching the roundabout!
“So, what that does is it just really changes the attitude of the car and how you perceive its movement. And it makes it harder to predict, compared to when you’re further back and you’re sitting closer, more centre.
“It’s just something I’ve really struggled with.”
Asked by The Race if Hamilton had accepted that Mercedes would retain the seating position because of the team’s belief it was part of making the fastest possible car, he replied: “Yeah, I listened to the team and that was the direction that they said that we should go.
makes sense________
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-seat-posit...
We sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers,” said Hamilton. “Our cockpit is too close to the front.
“When you’re driving, you feel like you’re sitting on the front wheels which is one of the worst feelings to feel when you’re driving a car.
“If you were driving your car at home, and you put the wheels right underneath your legs, you would not be happy when you’re approaching the roundabout!
“So, what that does is it just really changes the attitude of the car and how you perceive its movement. And it makes it harder to predict, compared to when you’re further back and you’re sitting closer, more centre.
“It’s just something I’ve really struggled with.”
Asked by The Race if Hamilton had accepted that Mercedes would retain the seating position because of the team’s belief it was part of making the fastest possible car, he replied: “Yeah, I listened to the team and that was the direction that they said that we should go.
sure I've read various places say as a driver you want the car to pivot round your head. Moving the pivot behind will take some major adjusting to
Only mention it as I was struggling not to be skeptical about what input he could have really offered but that's another good example that I hadn't thought of.
Also, a better comparison picture from that linked article above:
Edited by SturdyHSV on Thursday 30th March 12:12
I'm struggling a little bit to not see this as an excuse from Lewis. At some point do you suggest it's evidence that he isn't adaptable? Or that adaptability lessens with age? - Alonso shows that isn't necessarily true for all.
honda_exige said:
Obviously the photos aren't 100% accurate due to angulation but the Merc doesn't seem too dissimilar from the Ferrari/Merc/Aston, only the RB seems to be significantly different.
I'm struggling a little bit to not see this as an excuse from Lewis. At some point do you suggest it's evidence that he isn't adaptable? Or that adaptability lessens with age? - Alonso shows that isn't necessarily true for all.
Would be interesting to see it as a proportion of the wheelbase - I.e. the drivers head is x% of the distance from the front axle to rear axle. I think that might be more relevant.I'm struggling a little bit to not see this as an excuse from Lewis. At some point do you suggest it's evidence that he isn't adaptable? Or that adaptability lessens with age? - Alonso shows that isn't necessarily true for all.
If you look at those pictures the front wheels are aligned but the rear wheels are all different.
pablo said:
Muzzer79 said:
pablo said:
Sandpit Steve said:
This is getting silly now. A change of leadership at the FIA and race control last year, was supposed to move on from the mess under Todt and Masi - but instead, the mess is still happening, but accompanied by over-zealous policing of the most minor and petty rules.
To be fair, this image shows the problem, 12 men leaning against that angled lattice is going to end in disaster eventually. Yes it’s designed to stop cars at 200 mph but it’s still a risk however unlikely and no one wants to see them fall onto the trackHow many times has the fence looked like it would fail after the pit crew have hung off it?
If the answer is zero then it’s an over-zealous rule.
It’s always nice to see the team congratulating the winner has they cross the line but no one wants to witness a freak accident. Mechanics on the wall look safe enough.
Sandpit Steve said:
Can’t see past the Red Bulls, assuming their reliability holds up.
Of note, is that for the first time F2 and F3 are going to Australia as support races, which will be a good experience for the support series. No idea how they got the budget, for what must be a 747 full of kit for each series.
Found a useful little link for when F2/F3 is happening - hopefully Sky will broadcast the F2. Atleast we can then watch some proper racing this weekend Of note, is that for the first time F2 and F3 are going to Australia as support races, which will be a good experience for the support series. No idea how they got the budget, for what must be a 747 full of kit for each series.
https://www.grandprix.com.au/schedule/track?events...
tertius said:
honda_exige said:
Obviously the photos aren't 100% accurate due to angulation but the Merc doesn't seem too dissimilar from the Ferrari/Merc/Aston, only the RB seems to be significantly different.
I'm struggling a little bit to not see this as an excuse from Lewis. At some point do you suggest it's evidence that he isn't adaptable? Or that adaptability lessens with age? - Alonso shows that isn't necessarily true for all.
Would be interesting to see it as a proportion of the wheelbase - I.e. the drivers head is x% of the distance from the front axle to rear axle. I think that might be more relevant.I'm struggling a little bit to not see this as an excuse from Lewis. At some point do you suggest it's evidence that he isn't adaptable? Or that adaptability lessens with age? - Alonso shows that isn't necessarily true for all.
If you look at those pictures the front wheels are aligned but the rear wheels are all different.
Really interesting what has come out about Hamilton's preferences. Was looking forward to someone posting a graphic to compare the cars so thanks for that. I'm surprised how much variation there is. Looks to be 500-600mm. I remember hearing that the Mercedes gearbox is very long indeed by design, in order to concentrate the mass in the middle and presumably to create opportunity to waist the bodywork ahead of the rear axle and create volume under the floor. With bargeboards gone there is probably less scope to perform aero miracles between the front axle and the sidepods. I remember that in the previous aero era everyone was trying to move the front axle as far forward as possible (and/or the cockpit and sidepods backward, presumably) to create space for bargeboards.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of a trend towards more forward cockpits over time in this regulation set. I expect Hamilton will have a battle on his hands trying to get moved backward. He is going to have to adapt. It does look tricky though. Obviously your gyro is in your head, so there's that, but also all of your sensation of what the car is doing will come from your arse and trunk, and imagining where those are on those side images is interesting. Hadn't realised how extreme it is. Must be like driving a bus and trying to feel what the rear axle is doing.
Perhaps an aggressive reduction in minimum weight or floor area is in order to encourage shorter wheelbases. From a drivetrain perspective I bet Mercedes in particular would have no trouble taking half a metre out behind the engine.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of a trend towards more forward cockpits over time in this regulation set. I expect Hamilton will have a battle on his hands trying to get moved backward. He is going to have to adapt. It does look tricky though. Obviously your gyro is in your head, so there's that, but also all of your sensation of what the car is doing will come from your arse and trunk, and imagining where those are on those side images is interesting. Hadn't realised how extreme it is. Must be like driving a bus and trying to feel what the rear axle is doing.
Perhaps an aggressive reduction in minimum weight or floor area is in order to encourage shorter wheelbases. From a drivetrain perspective I bet Mercedes in particular would have no trouble taking half a metre out behind the engine.
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