Are Red bull cheating?

Are Red bull cheating?

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Discussion

Basil Brush

5,201 posts

269 months

Monday 16th September
quotequote all
ajprice said:
The reason for the drop off in Verstappen's results has been found hehe



Leeds! Leeds! Leeds! hehe
He's done a Kalvin!

gmk666

1,676 posts

231 months

Monday 16th September
quotequote all
Basil Brush said:
ajprice said:
The reason for the drop off in Verstappen's results has been found hehe



Leeds! Leeds! Leeds! hehe
He's done a Kalvin!
Point of order - Kalvin was good when he was played for us. Verstappen has done more of a Brolin.

Basil Brush

5,201 posts

269 months

Monday 16th September
quotequote all
gmk666 said:
Point of order - Kalvin was good when he was played for us. Verstappen has done more of a Brolin.
I know, I meant once he'd put the shirt down he'd never be the same.

Megaflow

9,830 posts

231 months

Tuesday 17th September
quotequote all
Interesting rumour circulating, apparently they may have been running three chamber rear dampers that delayed the return of the car to it’s original ride height using nitrogen, in a manner designed to replicate the trick hydraulic suspension everyone had before 2022.

https://youtu.be/kUg7xTlNmEc

ETA: For some phone typing...

Edited by Megaflow on Tuesday 17th September 12:21

Chamon_Lee

3,864 posts

153 months

Tuesday 17th September
quotequote all
Yes, specifically Max's car, clearly wings have been clipped because no one performance drops off that drastically

thepawbroon

1,183 posts

190 months

Tuesday 17th September
quotequote all
Megaflow said:
Interesting rumour circulating, apparently they may have been running three chamber rear dampers that delayed the return of the car to it’s original ride height using nitrogen, in a manner design to replicate the truck hydraulic suspension everyone had before 2022.

https://youtu.be/kUg7xTlNmEc
Interesting..... there's seemingly a quote attributed to Stefano Domenicali along the lines of "Red Bull domination not being allowed to continue". So we know where that came from? I'd not heard anything like that before.

Sandpit Steve

11,230 posts

80 months

Tuesday 17th September
quotequote all
I think we can definitively answer the question posed in the header as follows:

“Yes, but no longer”.

sidewinder500

1,332 posts

100 months

Tuesday 17th September
quotequote all
But it's damn clever...

PlywoodPascal

5,125 posts

27 months

Tuesday 17th September
quotequote all
PlywoodPascal said:
I thought the previous story was about their suspension and how that was borderline and they had to remove it?
Me, in August, on this thread
The dampers stuff has been known since spring.

PlywoodPascal

5,125 posts

27 months

Tuesday 17th September
quotequote all
thepawbroon said:
Megaflow said:
Interesting rumour circulating, apparently they may have been running three chamber rear dampers that delayed the return of the car to it’s original ride height using nitrogen, in a manner design to replicate the truck hydraulic suspension everyone had before 2022.

https://youtu.be/kUg7xTlNmEc
Interesting..... there's seemingly a quote attributed to Stefano Domenicali along the lines of "Red Bull domination not being allowed to continue". So we know where that came from? I'd not heard anything like that before.
Interview in Miami…


Siao

1,007 posts

46 months

Wednesday 18th September
quotequote all
thepawbroon said:
Megaflow said:
Interesting rumour circulating, apparently they may have been running three chamber rear dampers that delayed the return of the car to it’s original ride height using nitrogen, in a manner design to replicate the truck hydraulic suspension everyone had before 2022.

https://youtu.be/kUg7xTlNmEc
Interesting..... there's seemingly a quote attributed to Stefano Domenicali along the lines of "Red Bull domination not being allowed to continue". So we know where that came from? I'd not heard anything like that before.
Apart from the obvious (that they actually were cheating and it was dealt behind closed doors), he could have meant that they need to stop RB's domination, just like they had to stop Mercedes, RB's and Ferrari's before that. It got boring after a while, especially the latest RB's domination where they broke every record they could last year. Not that RB was cheating necessarily.

732NM

6,098 posts

21 months

Wednesday 18th September
quotequote all
Siao said:
Apart from the obvious (that they actually were cheating and it was dealt behind closed doors), he could have meant that they need to stop RB's domination, just like they had to stop Mercedes, RB's and Ferrari's before that. It got boring after a while, especially the latest RB's domination where they broke every record they could last year. Not that RB was cheating necessarily.
He said the opposite. He expects the other teams to catch up, but it's normal for dominance at times and people should watch this legacy being built.

He most certainly did not say they would do anything artificial to nobble them.

Boom78

1,315 posts

54 months

Thursday 19th September
quotequote all
This isn’t a dig at RB but F1 in general; the lack of transparency, closed doors, secret talks, secret ‘clamp downs’ does nothing for the sport. How can anyone investing, racing or watching think they’re getting treated fairly or getting value? I thought football was shady but F1 is probably worse!

However, on the flip side, this season has almost stoked my fire for F1, more winners, more competition etc.

Siao

1,007 posts

46 months

Thursday 19th September
quotequote all
732NM said:
Siao said:
Apart from the obvious (that they actually were cheating and it was dealt behind closed doors), he could have meant that they need to stop RB's domination, just like they had to stop Mercedes, RB's and Ferrari's before that. It got boring after a while, especially the latest RB's domination where they broke every record they could last year. Not that RB was cheating necessarily.
He said the opposite. He expects the other teams to catch up, but it's normal for dominance at times and people should watch this legacy being built.

He most certainly did not say they would do anything artificial to nobble them.
thumbup

NRS

22,816 posts

207 months

Thursday 19th September
quotequote all
Boom78 said:
This isn’t a dig at RB but F1 in general; the lack of transparency, closed doors, secret talks, secret ‘clamp downs’ does nothing for the sport. How can anyone investing, racing or watching think they’re getting treated fairly or getting value? I thought football was shady but F1 is probably worse!

However, on the flip side, this season has almost stoked my fire for F1, more winners, more competition etc.
Invested on the racing side - easy to accept it when you're making a fortune from it. Which is what is happening these days for a lot of people - owners, drivers etc.

On the fans side a lot don't realise the issues, either not knowing or deliberately not caring because it benefits their side. Just look at AD21 as one example - for anyone used to F1 it was instantly obvious what the decision to allow a car on brand new tyres with 2 compounds softer than their opponent would result in on the last lap - it wasn't a "race to the end", it was already a certainty that the car with those tyres would pass if there was no crash. But many either accepted that as "a race" because they didn't realise that, or it benefitted their driver.

They're in a position where they have to pretend there is no messing around with results for political reasons to keep fans interested, but the media and a lot of people involved in F1 will continue this because it makes them money, even if they lose out on results. It looks like it's now perhaps happening with McLaren where the flexi wing is not having a change in the tests, because it makes it a more fun fight to the end of the season.

Sandpit Steve

11,230 posts

80 months

Thursday 19th September
quotequote all
Boom78 said:
This isn’t a dig at RB but F1 in general; the lack of transparency, closed doors, secret talks, secret ‘clamp downs’ does nothing for the sport. How can anyone investing, racing or watching think they’re getting treated fairly or getting value? I thought football was shady but F1 is probably worse!

However, on the flip side, this season has almost stoked my fire for F1, more winners, more competition etc.
It was the same with Ferrari back in 2018.

When a car goes from being on rails to being a (relative) dog, or clearly has dozens of extra horsepower for a few races which then suddenly disappear, it creates a bad atmosphere for the fans.

Much better to just be honest, and say that a line was breached, but everyone appears to be scared witless to do as they used to and talk about these things openly. I guess it’s to do with Liberty, and lawyers.

Edited by Sandpit Steve on Thursday 19th September 13:45

Muzzer79

10,859 posts

193 months

Thursday 19th September
quotequote all
Sandpit Steve said:
I think we can definitively answer the question posed in the header as follows:

“Yes, but no longer”.
We can't definitively say anything without some actual evidence or a confession.

We can only answer the question posed in the header as

"Maybe"

deadslow

8,221 posts

229 months

Thursday 19th September
quotequote all
other teams innovate; RedBull cheat rofl

Jasandjules

70,420 posts

235 months

Thursday 19th September
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
We can't definitively say anything without some actual evidence or a confession.

We can only answer the question posed in the header as

"Maybe"
More likely than not. Whilst it is all circumstantial, it all is too difficult to suggest it is just a coincidence.

Muzzer79

10,859 posts

193 months

Thursday 19th September
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
Muzzer79 said:
We can't definitively say anything without some actual evidence or a confession.

We can only answer the question posed in the header as

"Maybe"
More likely than not. Whilst it is all circumstantial, it all is too difficult to suggest it is just a coincidence.
The timing doesn't look good for them but that doesn't mean they're definitively cheating.....

There's a plausible scenario where they've run a highly innovative car and just lost their way in development.

This era of F1 car is nothing if not highly fickle - look at the struggle Mercedes have, with a winning car one week and a mid-points scorer the next.

Same with Ferrari, to a lesser or greater degree.

It seems that one wrong development turn can be highly problematic - it's not unfeasible that this has happened to RBR.