Are Red bull cheating?

[MarkwG]

asfault said:

there has to be some other easier way during the race or pitstop to change this...

There's no indication it was or could be changed during practice, qualifying or the race: the implication is that it could have been adjusted bewteen sessions to adapt to changing conditions, whilst under parc ferme conditions.

[snotrag]

Its the theatrics of getting the battery ratchet and every single 3/8ths extnesion in your top box out to demonstrate it that is making rhis funny.


Not shown - the knurled adjustment wheel and Sergios racing boots with the big toe cut out

Edited by snotrag on Friday 18th October 22:27

[PhilAsia]

732NM said:

PhilAsia said:

No, it isn't what I was suggesting. What I was suggesting is something much smaller, that could be somehow secreted into place by a mechanic (without the scrutineer suspecting) and used to adjust after qualifying whilst working on the the car.

It's not against the rules to work on the car. Zero need to hide tools.

Thanks. That's what I thought, although to be frank I was not absolutely sure how much work can be done. To squirrel a couple of clicks in a tight compartment would be pretty easy... "Look over THERE!!"...., wouldn't it?

[732NM]

MarkwG said:

There's no indication it was or could be changed during practice, qualifying or the race: the implication is that it could have been adjusted bewteen sessions to adapt to changing conditions, whilst under parc ferme conditions.

It's a way of making the car work better in qualy and then adjusted to optimise for the race, when it's supposed to be a fixed position compromise for both.

[732NM]

PhilAsia said:

Thanks. That's what I thought, although to be frank I was not absolutely sure how much work can be done. To squirrel a couple of clicks in a tight compartment would be pretty easy... "Look over THERE!!"...., wouldn't it?

If I can do it, I'm sure olly can.

The FIA have now mandated sealed covers, it's easy to cheat that by having the part the seal goes over removable itself.

[PhilAsia]

732NM said:

MarkwG said:

There's no indication it was or could be changed during practice, qualifying or the race: the implication is that it could have been adjusted bewteen sessions to adapt to changing conditions, whilst under parc ferme conditions.

It's a way of making the car work better in qualy and then adjusted to optimise for the race, when it's supposed to be a fixed position compromise for both.

Maybe the RB defenders need to see Q for quali and R for race on the adjustable part before they get suspicious?

[Vanden Saab]

Aiui it makes no difference in the race but possibly a couple of 10ths in qualifying.Seeing how close qualifying is these days the acid test will be whether the Red Bull qualifies a few places lower in the last 8 races.

[TheDeuce]

asfault said:

there has to be some other easier way during the race or pitstop to change this...

I would have thought there was a way to adjust the bib height that the FIA did know about and would check wasn't altered - they would expect there to be an identifiable official method to make such a change. In addition to that, this could be a surreptitious additional way to change it, whilst under the guise of making other normal and permitted changes in the same work area.

The whole thing stinks.

[732NM]

Vanden Saab said:

Aiui it makes no difference in the race but possibly a couple of 10ths in qualifying.Seeing how close qualifying is these days the acid test will be whether the Red Bull qualifies a few places lower in the last 8 races.

Pretty much, if it's going to do anything obvious, it will hurt their qualy pace.

[honda_exige]

732NM said:

honda_exige said:

Are you seriously suggesting that RedBull installed that thing in his right hand, one of these.....



.... into the footwell of their car, secured it and made it operable by the driver's foot? I mean that's a similar level of inventiveness to Trump suggesting you can inject bleach to cure Covid

You can't be this thick?

It's not a driver adjustable device.

It's a device operated by the mechanic which can easily be carried out during parc ferme.

JSF you shouldn't drink so much on a Friday night.

PhilAsia I do believe he's called you thick, are you gonna take that

[MarkwG]

732NM said:

MarkwG said:

There's no indication it was or could be changed during practice, qualifying or the race: the implication is that it could have been adjusted bewteen sessions to adapt to changing conditions, whilst under parc ferme conditions.

It's a way of making the car work better in qualy and then adjusted to optimise for the race, when it's supposed to be a fixed position compromise for both.

Thanks, that was my understanding, apologies if not clear.

[lambosagogo]

honda_exige said:

JSF you shouldn't drink so much on a Friday night.

PhilAsia I do believe he's called you thick, are you gonna take that

To be fair, he didn’t say that they did do that, only that it wouldn’t take much to do so. Like someone saying that while they do have a device in the car that could indeed do something they didn’t actually use it in that way.

[honda_exige]

lambosagogo said:

honda_exige said:

JSF you shouldn't drink so much on a Friday night.

PhilAsia I do believe he's called you thick, are you gonna take that

To be fair, he didn’t say that they did do that, only that it wouldn’t take much to do so. Like someone saying that while they do have a device in the car that could indeed do something they didn’t actually use it in that way.

I was being slightly facetious of course, I think even Ferrari in the Todt era wouldn't have got away with a Milwaukee gaffataped into the footwell. But he did literally write 'operate it with a driver's foot"....... then JSF waded into the thread with the energy and accuracy of an abusive husband coming home form the pub.

[RiseUp]

Whatever limits the FIA have imposed didn’t seem to hinder Max’s quali pace.

[PhilAsia]

honda_exige said:

732NM said:

honda_exige said:

Are you seriously suggesting that RedBull installed that thing in his right hand, one of these.....



.... into the footwell of their car, secured it and made it operable by the driver's foot? I mean that's a similar level of inventiveness to Trump suggesting you can inject bleach to cure Covid

You can't be this thick?

It's not a driver adjustable device.

It's a device operated by the mechanic which can easily be carried out during parc ferme.

JSF you shouldn't drink so much on a Friday night.

PhilAsia I do believe he's called you thick, are you gonna take that

Unlike you honda, I am quite quite happy to be called thick by someone who has far superior knowledge on a topic than I do. And, unlike you honda, we cannot all be the most knowledgeable about all the minutiae on every subject. So, for 732NM to enlighten me is advantageous, in that I learn something.

If you took a little time to understand my post, you would see that I used a fictitious and far-fetched example to illustrate a thought. The point being, it would be easy for someone to adjust the bib without any scrutineer seeing.

If you haven't noticed by now, when I do not have knowledge of an area I am quite often prone to exaggerating an idea to elaborate a point - hence my other comment on Max swapping his gold lamé boots for Pozidrive stillettos. 732NM then confirmed my thoughts, by stating simply it not beyond the wit of man to carry a small wrench in order to make such adjustments. Simple.

However, the comment was made to you I believe, and seems to have hit your ego rather hard..., as usual. Please, let it go...

Edited by PhilAsia on Saturday 19th October 07:41

[Derek Smith]

When asked how other teams might know about the adjustment in parc ferme, Brundle said in Practice 1 that there had been a lot of movement in team members from RB. Make of that what you will.

[Roofless Toothless]

PhilAsia said:

Unlike you honda, I am quite quite happy to be called thick by someone who has far superior knowledge on a topic than I do. And, unlike you honda, we cannot all be the most knowledgeable about all the minutiae on every subject. So, for 732NM to enlighten me is advantageous, in that I learn something.

If you took a little time to understand my post, you would see that I used a fictitious and far-fetched example to illustrate a thought. The point being, it would be easy for someone to adjust the bib without any scrutineer seeing.

If you haven't noticed by now, when I do not have knowledge of an area I am quite often prone to exaggerating an idea to elaborate a point - hence my other comment on Max swapping his gold lamé boots for Pozidrive stillettos. 732NM then confirmed my thoughts, by stating simply it not beyond the wit of man to carry a small wrench in order to make such adjustments. Simple.

However, the comment was made to you I believe, and seems to have hit your ego rather hard..., as usual. Please, let it go...

Edited by PhilAsia on Saturday 19th October 07:41

Pah! They were doing that back in Jackie Stewart’s day.

[PhilAsia]

Roofless Toothless said:

Pah! They were doing that back in Jackie Stewart’s day.

[Jasandjules]

honda_exige said:

Yes this isn't obvious at all. The FIA have all the footage from the CCTV this year from the cameras directly over the car. It's fairly trivial to go back and review.

And yet the FIA man, when directly challenged on this, said they won't be looking back over the CCTV and the one thing they can say is that going forwards it is not an issue......

ETA - and whilst I think of it, there was also a snippet of a comment that stuck in mind, about it only being able to move a tiny amount, just 2-3mm so not important. The same rule I believe was applied to a certain rear wing etc.............

Edited by Jasandjules on Saturday 19th October 13:54

[Jonnny]

RiseUp said:

Whatever limits the FIA have imposed didn’t seem to hinder Max’s quali pace.

It's true, but isn't the issue surrounding this the fact they were changing it between Quali and Race?