The Alpine implosion
Discussion
thegreenhell said:
Does he have "a habit of bringing the company into disrepute"? Or was it just one incident that got dragged out in public? I'm not defending the guy, just wondering if I've missed some other incidents he caused.
As for "mentoring junior drivers", that was never really a strong suit at Red Bull. More like throwing a bunch of them in the deep end to see if any of them could swim, and not worrying too much about the ones who drowned.
The old 'throw enough sAs for "mentoring junior drivers", that was never really a strong suit at Red Bull. More like throwing a bunch of them in the deep end to see if any of them could swim, and not worrying too much about the ones who drowned.
t at the wall and hope some of it sticks' approach to driver mentoring 
Can Colapinto turn his career around? The standard of rookies has been so high in the last 20 years that drivers who get a reputation as crashers eventually get dropped, then no one else wants to touch them irrespective of money (Latifi, Maldonado, Mick).
I can only think of Massa and Grosjean who were given the chance to get past those early smashes.
I can only think of Massa and Grosjean who were given the chance to get past those early smashes.
DanielSan said:
Leithen said:
I mentioned that earlier. Wolff might have a say about Horner being involved…
He's got no share in the team, they're a customer whose paying full price for the engines. He'd have 0 say in anything to do with Horner going into the Enstone team, even come 2030 and supply contract renewal time, turning down a source of revenue for purely personal reasons wouldn't be particularly professional, especially given there's been no issue with Flavio running the team.It's business, you don't have to like the person you're doing a deal with
Instead he controls the engine supply. They currently supply four teams including their own. Aston Martin will be with Honda next year, so it was down to three (Mercedes, McLaren & Williams). On the face of it, it made sense to allow Alpine to take up the fourth supply position.
However, these are new engines, and whilst they like the idea of volume supply to improve development/reliability, supplying more than they need to might be a big logistical headache. More importantly, as per the rules, they are under no obligation to supply a fourth team - https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/what-f1s-rules-s....
With contracts signed, then it depends what is in them. I'd be very surprised if there weren't exit clauses for both parties.
Even if there aren't exit clauses, Wolff can make it very clear that with Horner as a part owner, the supply will last the length of the contract and no more. He can also have a lot of fun at Horner's expense. Given how much he apparently loathes Horner, this might be something of an issue for Alpine.
Mercedes may well also want to scale back its engine supply to the minimum required. It is being humiliated by a customer at the moment, in a marvellous reverse ferret situation that mirrors 2009. It obviously needs to abide by the rules, but it could chose to supply those teams in the future that pose less of a WC rivalry. If Alpine continues to be s
t, no problem. But Horner might well kick the team into shape.So, Wolff might well have a say, if indirectly, as to whether other shareholders would want Horner as part of their operation. Never pays to burn bridges, especially over piranha infested waters. And you can guarantee he's not going to put up with any of the s
t that Cyril Abiteboul put up with from Horner.WilsonWilson said:
Can Colapinto turn his career around? The standard of rookies has been so high in the last 20 years that drivers who get a reputation as crashers eventually get dropped, then no one else wants to touch them irrespective of money (Latifi, Maldonado, Mick).
I can only think of Massa and Grosjean who were given the chance to get past those early smashes.
Both of whom proved everyone wrong and enjoyed a continued F1 career with hardly any crashing I can only think of Massa and Grosjean who were given the chance to get past those early smashes.
thegreenhell said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Not unless he’s completely exonerated by the forthcoming employment tribunal, that many have said is a factor in his sacking from Red Bull.
Yes the tide might be turning on the extreme wokery of the past few years, but who’s putting serious money behind someone who has a habit of bringing the company into disrepute?
Now would a team hire Horny to manage the operation in the future, possibly yes. But very much as a sackable employee, as he’s always been.
I still think Horny should go back to Arden, and spend at least a couple of years running and mentoring junior drivers.
Does he have "a habit of bringing the company into disrepute"? Or was it just one incident that got dragged out in public? I'm not defending the guy, just wondering if I've missed some other incidents he caused.Yes the tide might be turning on the extreme wokery of the past few years, but who’s putting serious money behind someone who has a habit of bringing the company into disrepute?
Now would a team hire Horny to manage the operation in the future, possibly yes. But very much as a sackable employee, as he’s always been.
I still think Horny should go back to Arden, and spend at least a couple of years running and mentoring junior drivers.
As for "mentoring junior drivers", that was never really a strong suit at Red Bull. More like throwing a bunch of them in the deep end to see if any of them could swim, and not worrying too much about the ones who drowned.
thegreenhell said:
Wolff doesn't control the engine supply. AMG HPP is a separate company controlled 100% by Mercedes-Benz. Wolff isn't even a director of that company.
Would Mercedes supply an engine to anyone against his wishes? Why does he front the discussions on supply?Had Horner been ejected from RB earlier and become involved in Alpine before Mercedes agreed to supply them, would they have gone ahead and done so?
It’s a delicious scenario which will be very disappointing if Horner doesn’t end up at Alpine.
Blib said:
Jinba Ittai said:
Well Flávio Briatore and Pat Symonds, just to name two off the top of my head, were welcomed back to the sport with open arms, and they did far far worse than Horner has done. Horner will only go somewhere where he can have equity as part of the deal. Perhaps he brings Arden into F1 anfter taking over Alpine. Regardless of what you think of him personally, and I think he is a loathsome individual, what he achieved with RB won’t be conveniently forgotten. He will always be in demand as long as he wants to be in the sport.
Personally, I dont believe that a bent attempt to win a motor car race is far worse than being accused of sexual harassment and coercive, controlling behaviour of an employee.Still, each to their own, I suppose.
Blib said:
Jinba Ittai said:
Exactly. And in the F1 world, I've got a pretty good idea which is considered worse.
Really?You sure about that?
This ain't the 1970s any more. There's huge corporations involved nowadays.
Briatore was found guilty, therefore proven.
So yes, Briatore's offence is far greater at this point in time.
Blib said:
Jinba Ittai said:
Exactly. And in the F1 world, I've got a pretty good idea which is considered worse.
Really?You sure about that?
This ain't the 1970s any more. There's huge corporations involved nowadays.
Leithen said:
thegreenhell said:
Wolff doesn't control the engine supply. AMG HPP is a separate company controlled 100% by Mercedes-Benz. Wolff isn't even a director of that company.
Would Mercedes supply an engine to anyone against his wishes? Why does he front the discussions on supply?Had Horner been ejected from RB earlier and become involved in Alpine before Mercedes agreed to supply them, would they have gone ahead and done so?
It’s a delicious scenario which will be very disappointing if Horner doesn’t end up at Alpine.
I would be surprised if a contract to supply PUs to another team would have a 'Horner clause' as the provision of the PU is so critical to the customer team being able to function.
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