The Official F1 2025 silly season *contains speculation*
Discussion
TheDeuce said:
(although that assumes they believe Max will remain longer term as their star driver - I think he will leave at the end of 2025, if they think the same is likely, it could be golden hour for a young talented driver who takes the No2 seat now)
You’d like to think this is his strategy. Take the seat, spend 1, maybe 2 years playing second fiddle to Max and learning as much as possible. Then Max goes and Voila! #1 driver! I think Lawson’s biggest risk is where will Red Bull be in the pecking order in 2 years time? wiliferus said:
TheDeuce said:
(although that assumes they believe Max will remain longer term as their star driver - I think he will leave at the end of 2025, if they think the same is likely, it could be golden hour for a young talented driver who takes the No2 seat now)
You’d like to think this is his strategy. Take the seat, spend 1, maybe 2 years playing second fiddle to Max and learning as much as possible. Then Max goes and Voila! #1 driver! I think Lawson’s biggest risk is where will Red Bull be in the pecking order in 2 years time? Will their first ever truly in-house developed PU be one of the best? It's possible, but is it really likely...?
Also Newey is gone. It's all well and good saying there's other design talent at the team to take over, I know there is. But how sure can Max be the loss of Newey won't still be felt for n the 2026 car?
andburg said:
Surely Perez exit is not about his his deal and payout.
I think it's exactly about that.He has a contract. (Rightly) he wants that contract honoured financially.
He also has personal sponsorships with the Mexican brands he brings with him. If he's not driving for Red Bull, they won't pay him as much, if at all. If his contract is being terminated, he will compensation for that element too - which could be the real sticking point.
One has to assume that Perez is holding all the good cards here, hence the delay.
Muzzer79 said:
andburg said:
Surely Perez exit is not about his his deal and payout.
I think it's exactly about that.He has a contract. (Rightly) he wants that contract honoured financially.
He also has personal sponsorships with the Mexican brands he brings with him. If he's not driving for Red Bull, they won't pay him as much, if at all. If his contract is being terminated, he will compensation for that element too - which could be the real sticking point.
One has to assume that Perez is holding all the good cards here, hence the delay.
wiliferus said:
TheDeuce said:
(although that assumes they believe Max will remain longer term as their star driver - I think he will leave at the end of 2025, if they think the same is likely, it could be golden hour for a young talented driver who takes the No2 seat now)
You’d like to think this is his strategy. Take the seat, spend 1, maybe 2 years playing second fiddle to Max and learning as much as possible. Then Max goes and Voila! #1 driver! I think Lawson’s biggest risk is where will Red Bull be in the pecking order in 2 years time? TheDeuce said:
Muzzer79 said:
Lawson does seem to be quite bolshy.
I can’t see him being so compliant on the moving-over front like Perez has been.
I recall Perez being considered a pretty potent driver at one point - specifically before and for the first few months of his tenure at RBR. That's the thing, it's not Lawson's style or ability that will determine his performance at the team so much as the role he is expected to deliver and subsequently the car and strategy he is handed.I can’t see him being so compliant on the moving-over front like Perez has been.
Albon, Gasly, Perez... Enter: Lawson. Poor sod.
"Red Bull; Clips your wings"
(although that assumes they believe Max will remain longer term as their star driver - I think he will leave at the end of 2025, if they think the same is likely, it could be golden hour for a young talented driver who takes the No2 seat now)
thegreenhell said:
wiliferus said:
TheDeuce said:
(although that assumes they believe Max will remain longer term as their star driver - I think he will leave at the end of 2025, if they think the same is likely, it could be golden hour for a young talented driver who takes the No2 seat now)
You’d like to think this is his strategy. Take the seat, spend 1, maybe 2 years playing second fiddle to Max and learning as much as possible. Then Max goes and Voila! #1 driver! I think Lawson’s biggest risk is where will Red Bull be in the pecking order in 2 years time? It really does depend on whether or not Horny and Helmut think Max is likely to depart - if they do think that, naturally they'll want to build up Lawson. If they don't think Max is going anywhere, then sadly it would seem likely Lawson is in for a difficult ride at the team.
TheDeuce said:
One year. I think Max will be at another team for the new regs era; 2026 season.
It really does depend on whether or not Horny and Helmut think Max is likely to depart - if they do think that, naturally they'll want to build up Lawson. If they don't think Max is going anywhere, then sadly it would seem likely Lawson is in for a difficult ride at the team.
Max has been quite open:It really does depend on whether or not Horny and Helmut think Max is likely to depart - if they do think that, naturally they'll want to build up Lawson. If they don't think Max is going anywhere, then sadly it would seem likely Lawson is in for a difficult ride at the team.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/verstappen-on-f...
thegreenhell said:
That's assuming he can survive two years in the team alongside Max without being broken, unlike everyone else who's been in that position.
it will be down to his own mind management. I don't think he has shown himself to be on Max's level right now. He would need to go into RedBull to learn and improve. Albon gave a very illuminating insight when he said Max takes the car to an extreme set-up, and if you try to go there you cannot do it, and your confidence is shot.If he goes in easy and tries to evolve into a RedBull driver, I think he would do ok
vaud said:
TheDeuce said:
One year. I think Max will be at another team for the new regs era; 2026 season.
It really does depend on whether or not Horny and Helmut think Max is likely to depart - if they do think that, naturally they'll want to build up Lawson. If they don't think Max is going anywhere, then sadly it would seem likely Lawson is in for a difficult ride at the team.
Max has been quite open:It really does depend on whether or not Horny and Helmut think Max is likely to depart - if they do think that, naturally they'll want to build up Lawson. If they don't think Max is going anywhere, then sadly it would seem likely Lawson is in for a difficult ride at the team.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/verstappen-on-f...
I'm not saying your wrong or that Max is being untruthful, just that we never really know until just after it's happened.
Lewis just last year... https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-merce...
Steamer said:
Anyone else think Sainz did well to step out from the Redbull umbrella when he did?... didn't pan out so well for Danny Ric though.
It looks great for Saintz right up until Ferrari signed Hamilton, so now he's in a Williams. I mean, he's still in F1 but that's about the only positive.ETA...
To add a bit of discussion to that, Saintz left Torro Rosso to join Renault who then binned him off for Ricciardo. After a couple of lack lustre years Ricciardo then turned McLaren's eye and Vettel left the Scuderia.
So you could say that Red Bull, Renault, McLaren* and Ferrari have all binned Carlos off (asterix against McLaren because as far as I'm aware, no one really knew who'd signed/left first-Saintz signed for Ferrari the same day as Ricciardo signed for McLaren).
Either there's a cabal of teams trying to waste his talent of he's not as amazing as we all may think.
Personally I think he's a great journeyman driver, maybe in a fluke year he could get a championship like Button but without that isn't going to be ultimately fast enough against the greats. I think he'll destroy Albon for instance but in a championship battle with a faster team mate he won't win enough.
He truly is who should be in the Red Bull seat but despite what's said in public, who knows if he even would want that team having been inside it.
Edited by PRO5T on Wednesday 18th December 14:02
Edited by PRO5T on Wednesday 18th December 14:03
PRO5T said:
It looks great for Saintz right up until Ferrari signed Hamilton, so now he's in a Williams. I mean, he's still in F1 but that's about the only positive.
ETA...
To add a bit of discussion to that, Saintz left Torro Rosso to join Renault who then binned him off for Ricciardo. After a couple of lack lustre years Ricciardo then turned McLaren's eye and Vettel left the Scuderia.
So you could say that Red Bull, Renault, McLaren* and Ferrari have all binned Carlos off (asterix against McLaren because as far as I'm aware, no one really knew who'd signed/left first-Saintz signed for Ferrari the same day as Ricciardo signed for McLaren).
Either there's a cabal of teams trying to waste his talent of he's not as amazing as we all may think.
Personally I think he's a great journeyman driver, maybe in a fluke year he could get a championship like Button but without that isn't going to be ultimately fast enough against the greats. I think he'll destroy Albon for instance but in a championship battle with a faster team mate he won't win enough.
He truly is who should be in the Red Bull seat but despite what's said in public, who knows if he even would want that team having been inside it.
Interesting insight.ETA...
To add a bit of discussion to that, Saintz left Torro Rosso to join Renault who then binned him off for Ricciardo. After a couple of lack lustre years Ricciardo then turned McLaren's eye and Vettel left the Scuderia.
So you could say that Red Bull, Renault, McLaren* and Ferrari have all binned Carlos off (asterix against McLaren because as far as I'm aware, no one really knew who'd signed/left first-Saintz signed for Ferrari the same day as Ricciardo signed for McLaren).
Either there's a cabal of teams trying to waste his talent of he's not as amazing as we all may think.
Personally I think he's a great journeyman driver, maybe in a fluke year he could get a championship like Button but without that isn't going to be ultimately fast enough against the greats. I think he'll destroy Albon for instance but in a championship battle with a faster team mate he won't win enough.
He truly is who should be in the Red Bull seat but despite what's said in public, who knows if he even would want that team having been inside it.
Edited by PRO5T on Wednesday 18th December 14:02
Edited by PRO5T on Wednesday 18th December 14:03
For all his faults Carlos is undoubtedly the smartest guy on the grid, his racecraft is impeccable when it come to big picture thinking and out-smarting his own engineers and showing up CLC flaws. Or it could be there's a cancer in Ferrari making them strategically crap.
PRO5T said:
It looks great for Saintz right up until Ferrari signed Hamilton, so now he's in a Williams. I mean, he's still in F1 but that's about the only positive.
Not quite, he's also not at Sauber, Haas or Alpine.Williams had a Q3 car at times towards the end of this season and seem to be on a positive trajectory. If Sainz out-performs Albon it looks as though frequent Q3s and points could be possible from the off.
Ferrari pulled out all the stops last few years and still fell short. So you try something else.
Sainz was unfortunate his contract was coming to an end. Lewis had not put pen to paper at merc,thats it.
EJ can do one. Just because he is best buddies with sainz sr we have to suffer all the comedy betrayal claptrap.
Max wins everything till the cars not first rate than muddles around in the lower points.
If one of the other big teams crack it in 2025 and 2026 and win everything why would they be calling up max?
Getting him as well is admiting you are useless without him. The whole point is to beat max and red bull to show your teams worth
not brick it and get him as well and lose the credit for your efforts.
Masterful of Russell to instigate a feud with the hooligan.
Sainz was unfortunate his contract was coming to an end. Lewis had not put pen to paper at merc,thats it.
EJ can do one. Just because he is best buddies with sainz sr we have to suffer all the comedy betrayal claptrap.
Max wins everything till the cars not first rate than muddles around in the lower points.
If one of the other big teams crack it in 2025 and 2026 and win everything why would they be calling up max?
Getting him as well is admiting you are useless without him. The whole point is to beat max and red bull to show your teams worth
not brick it and get him as well and lose the credit for your efforts.
Masterful of Russell to instigate a feud with the hooligan.
Forester1965 said:
Or it might be when it comes down to it Sainz isn't attractive to top teams.
If Wolff wasn’t obsessed about missing signing Verstappen, Sainz would have been straight into the Mercedes. I suspect that if Lauda was still around the discussions might have been very different. And if Brawn was still running the show, there wouldn’t have been any debate, he’d have been in that seat like a shot. Throughout the history of the sport, being in the right car at the right time is everything. Signing drivers after they have just left primary school hasn’t helped at all.
Well here is something to look forward to in 2025 ....
Guenther Steiner - The Tour!
https://www.ents24.com/uk/tour-dates/guenther-stei...
Guenther Steiner - The Tour!
https://www.ents24.com/uk/tour-dates/guenther-stei...
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