Official 2024 Qatar Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[Jasandjules]

vaud said:

I'm with Max on this one, as were many podcasts post the weekend- breaches of the double waved flag rules are bad in many Formula of racing. F1 has to lead by example.

And let's say an F1 car was to Brake Test another, what then ?

[honda_exige]

vaud said:

Likes Fast Cars said:

I had warmed to Max the last couple of seasons but after Austria and now this, fk him. What a , only Alonso and that dip st Stroll are worse!

I'm with Max on this one, as were many podcasts post the weekend- breaches of the double waved flag rules are bad in many Formula of racing. F1 has to lead by example.

There are two points in my view:

1) To not lift is an absolute penalty and rightly so - regardless of if it is reported or observed from the data (it should have been the latter, so race control asleep again, I think Max just prompted the question)

2) The issue is if we need to adjust the rules to set a max speed or similar in waved yellow zones to ensure better safety of drivers, etc.

People are forgetting that even if Max hadn't said anything, Ferrari almost 100% likely would've been on to it when it's that obvious. The only difference is it might have been a post race 30 second penalty.

[vaud]

Jasandjules said:

And let's say an F1 car was to Brake Test another, what then ?

I have no issue with any driver reporting a possible incident to their team for the team to decide if to report it upwards, regardless of driver or team.

[vaud]

honda_exige said:

People are forgetting that even if Max hadn't said anything, Ferrari almost 100% likely would've been on to it when it's that obvious. The only difference is it might have been a post race 30 second penalty.

Quite. What I find more surprising is that race control are not checking if drivers are lifting into double yellow zones...

For me it is (relatively) simple, once a double waved yellow is declared, drivers have a max speed limit for that zone, with X seconds to get to that speed, to allow for a driver suddenly entering a zone at speed.

[White-Noise]

vaud said:

Quite. What I find more surprising is that race control are not checking if drivers are lifting into double yellow zones...

For me it is (relatively) simple, once a double waved yellow is declared, drivers have a max speed limit for that zone, with X seconds to get to that speed, to allow for a driver suddenly entering a zone at speed.

That would not be totally surprising but they should be all over that. I've observed when at tracks like le mans when you happen to stand by the start or end of a slow zone there is a massive difference in how cautious different cars are, I was really surprised, some blatantly breaking the rules. I'm just making an example to show how closely they don't watch things.

[vaud]

White-Noise said:

That would not be totally surprising but they should be all over that. I've observed when at tracks like le mans when you happen to stand by the start or end of a slow zone there is a massive difference in how cautious different cars are, I was really surprised, some blatantly breaking the rules. I'm just making an example to show how closely they don't watch things.

Agree. It's somewhat at odds with the advertising in races of "AWS help collate millions of data points every race to analyse every aspect of performance"...

[Jasandjules]

vaud said:

Jasandjules said:

And let's say an F1 car was to Brake Test another, what then ?

I have no issue with any driver reporting a possible incident to their team for the team to decide if to report it upwards, regardless of driver or team.

You stated that F1 has to lead by example. So what example should it set when a car brake tests another on a live circuit during a Grand Prix?

[anonymous-user]

Jasandjules said:

You stated that F1 has to lead by example. So what example should it set when a car brake tests another on a live circuit during a Grand Prix?

Change the rules mid race next time out to hand them the WDC, obviously.

[vaud]

Jasandjules said:

You stated that F1 has to lead by example. So what example should it set when a car brake tests another on a live circuit during a Grand Prix?

The affected driver or team report it for investigation, with the slight caveat that brake testing is slightly more subjective than not lifting for a double waved yellow.

I'm not out for an argument, or any single driver. Just have rules and apply them to all.

[Nova Gyna]

vaud said:

White-Noise said:

That would not be totally surprising but they should be all over that. I've observed when at tracks like le mans when you happen to stand by the start or end of a slow zone there is a massive difference in how cautious different cars are, I was really surprised, some blatantly breaking the rules. I'm just making an example to show how closely they don't watch things.

Agree. It's somewhat at odds with the advertising in races of "AWS help collate millions of data points every race to analyse every aspect of performance"...

Whenever I’ve seen the race control room it’s filled with people looking at an array of screens - showing different angles, data streams, telemetry and whatnot. It’s basically designed to ensure no detail is missed, yet they still manage to fk it up occasionally.

Maybe that’s part of the problem, paralysis of analysis, with so much data coming in they can’t see the wood for the trees, or a huge piece of carbon fibre on track. Even with the latest greatest tech available, human error will inevitably creep in.

[Mr Tidy]

Forester1965 said:

Jasandjules said:

You stated that F1 has to lead by example. So what example should it set when a car brake tests another on a live circuit during a Grand Prix?

Change the rules mid race next time out to hand them the WDC, obviously.

That seems about right sadly.

[Teatowell]

Nova Gyna said:

Whenever I’ve seen the race control room it’s filled with people looking at an array of screens - showing different angles, data streams, telemetry and whatnot. It’s basically designed to ensure no detail is missed, yet they still manage to fk it up occasionally.

Maybe that’s part of the problem, paralysis of analysis, with so much data coming in they can’t see the wood for the trees, or a huge piece of carbon fibre on track. Even with the latest greatest tech available, human error will inevitably creep in.

The fact you’ve got MBS trying to change the rules to completely void any effective governance structure would indicate to me anyway, that’s not the issue.

[Nova Gyna]

Teatowell said:

The fact you’ve got MBS trying to change the rules to completely void any effective governance structure would indicate to me anyway, that’s not the issue.

Fair point about Dick Tater's governance antics, but even a perfectly transparent and accountable FIA wouldn’t solve the issue if race control is inundated with unnecessary complexity.

And of course, humans are the original malware.

[Byker28i]

honda_exige said:

Max didn't just ease off he actually braked - Norris blasted through double yellows at full throttle and a massive 80kph faster than Max.

Norris killed his own challenge, he's graciously accepted that, it's odd that you won't

On board video is out. Yellow board flashed about 2/10s of a sec before Norris passed it. He was already looking ahead.

I thought the data showed Max lifted 11% for 0.9 of a sec, as he set two fastest laps...