The Official F1 2026 silly season *contains speculation*
Discussion
732NM said:
They can't fix it without a big change.
My bet is MGU-H returns.
That would of course help, but it's unpopular for good reasons.My bet is MGU-H returns.
It may well prove more palatable to increase ICE power share to ~70% at which point the harvesting and deployment will be next to invisible but still effective as a passing solution.
They clearly targeted '50%' electric as it's a great headline, just like 50% thermal efficiency was before. But it's simply too much electrification for current technology in F1.
Mgu-h return would be the quickest hot fix, but I still doubt they'll do that. I just can't see it happening.
Merry said:
TheDeuce said:
Mgu-h return would be the quickest hot fix, but I still doubt they'll do that. I just can't see it happening.
I feel like they're more likely to pop a motor on the front axle. Maybe make it a common part so no-one does anything sneaky with it.
It definitely will happen at some point, but they won't rush to cross that bridge. F1 cars remaining rwd for as long as possible is going to keep most fans happiest.
TheDeuce said:
Jesus, the sacred front axle.... That's more controversial than anything they've done to electrify the cars so far.
It definitely will happen at some point, but they won't rush to cross that bridge. F1 cars remaining rwd for as long as possible is going to keep most fans happiest.
Generator only on the front would still leave it RWD. It's unlikely to make a huge difference as they are already harvesting under braking.It definitely will happen at some point, but they won't rush to cross that bridge. F1 cars remaining rwd for as long as possible is going to keep most fans happiest.
Merry said:
TheDeuce said:
Mgu-h return would be the quickest hot fix, but I still doubt they'll do that. I just can't see it happening.
I feel like they're more likely to pop a motor on the front axle. Maybe make it a common part so no-one does anything sneaky with it.
732NM said:
TheDeuce said:
Jesus, the sacred front axle.... That's more controversial than anything they've done to electrify the cars so far.
It definitely will happen at some point, but they won't rush to cross that bridge. F1 cars remaining rwd for as long as possible is going to keep most fans happiest.
Generator only on the front would still leave it RWD. It's unlikely to make a huge difference as they are already harvesting under braking.It definitely will happen at some point, but they won't rush to cross that bridge. F1 cars remaining rwd for as long as possible is going to keep most fans happiest.
The front brakes currently carry plenty of responsibility for slowing the cars in a hurry, with an m/g on the axle they'd recoup significantly more power than only on the rear.
But outside of our debate about it, it doesn't matter, because it won't happen. They're currently trying to make some hefty electrification seem acceptable whilst maintaining an IC element. They're doing that because they want the cars to remain notionally 'the same as the old days', which means an engine and rwd. They won't do anything to alter the fundamental layout of the cars until they have to.
TheDeuce said:
A motor is a generator, a generator is a motor. They could of course use it only to generate - but it still wouldn't be a free running front axle.
The front brakes currently carry plenty of responsibility for slowing the cars in a hurry, with an m/g on the axle they'd recoup significantly more power than only on the rear.
But outside of our debate about it, it doesn't matter, because it won't happen. They're currently trying to make some hefty electrification seem acceptable whilst maintaining an IC element. They're doing that because they want the cars to remain notionally 'the same as the old days', which means an engine and rwd. They won't do anything to alter the fundamental layout of the cars until they have to.
A generator is not a motor, you have to design it as such, with the associated external hardware.The front brakes currently carry plenty of responsibility for slowing the cars in a hurry, with an m/g on the axle they'd recoup significantly more power than only on the rear.
But outside of our debate about it, it doesn't matter, because it won't happen. They're currently trying to make some hefty electrification seem acceptable whilst maintaining an IC element. They're doing that because they want the cars to remain notionally 'the same as the old days', which means an engine and rwd. They won't do anything to alter the fundamental layout of the cars until they have to.
The rear does a lot more braking on an F1 car than most realise, you have more tyre to exploit than the front and weight transfer is minimised by the suspension geometry and basic weight distribution and CofG.
732NM said:
TheDeuce said:
A motor is a generator, a generator is a motor. They could of course use it only to generate - but it still wouldn't be a free running front axle.
The front brakes currently carry plenty of responsibility for slowing the cars in a hurry, with an m/g on the axle they'd recoup significantly more power than only on the rear.
But outside of our debate about it, it doesn't matter, because it won't happen. They're currently trying to make some hefty electrification seem acceptable whilst maintaining an IC element. They're doing that because they want the cars to remain notionally 'the same as the old days', which means an engine and rwd. They won't do anything to alter the fundamental layout of the cars until they have to.
A generator is not a motor, you have to design it as such, with the associated external hardware.The front brakes currently carry plenty of responsibility for slowing the cars in a hurry, with an m/g on the axle they'd recoup significantly more power than only on the rear.
But outside of our debate about it, it doesn't matter, because it won't happen. They're currently trying to make some hefty electrification seem acceptable whilst maintaining an IC element. They're doing that because they want the cars to remain notionally 'the same as the old days', which means an engine and rwd. They won't do anything to alter the fundamental layout of the cars until they have to.
The rear does a lot more braking on an F1 car than most realise, you have more tyre to exploit than the front and weight transfer is minimised by the suspension geometry and basic weight distribution and CofG.
I note the current cars still have considerable front brake cooling, they're doing quite a lot still and about 90% of what they do could be reclaimed energy.
But I'll repeat, it won't happen anytime remotely soon. Do you think I'm wrong about that?
TheDeuce said:
At a component level, a motor is a generator and vice versa. The point is not how it might be used, it's that the application of either use marks the end of the front axle being free running. That would be a big deal.
I note the current cars still have considerable front brake cooling, they're doing quite a lot still and about 90% of what they do could be reclaimed energy.
But I'll repeat, it won't happen anytime remotely soon. Do you think I'm wrong about that?
No idea, the units are tiny so it's feasible. I've worked with a lot of inboard brake systems on F1 cars, it's no big deal to do that with electrics. I note the current cars still have considerable front brake cooling, they're doing quite a lot still and about 90% of what they do could be reclaimed energy.
But I'll repeat, it won't happen anytime remotely soon. Do you think I'm wrong about that?
I don't know what you mean by free running, unless you are taking energy from the drive system it's very low friction.
There will be no motor on the front axle (no way F1 is going 4WD) and there will be no MGU-H. Th engine manufacturers were the driver to remove the MGU-H as it has no place in an EV as there is no H.
The tweaks will all be software to change the regen and deployment rates. Maybe more for 2027 but not this year.
The tweaks will all be software to change the regen and deployment rates. Maybe more for 2027 but not this year.
732NM said:
TheDeuce said:
At a component level, a motor is a generator and vice versa. The point is not how it might be used, it's that the application of either use marks the end of the front axle being free running. That would be a big deal.
I note the current cars still have considerable front brake cooling, they're doing quite a lot still and about 90% of what they do could be reclaimed energy.
But I'll repeat, it won't happen anytime remotely soon. Do you think I'm wrong about that?
No idea, the units are tiny so it's feasible. I've worked with a lot of inboard brake systems on F1 cars, it's no big deal to do that with electrics. I note the current cars still have considerable front brake cooling, they're doing quite a lot still and about 90% of what they do could be reclaimed energy.
But I'll repeat, it won't happen anytime remotely soon. Do you think I'm wrong about that?
I don't know what you mean by free running, unless you are taking energy from the drive system it's very low friction.
Free running means that nothing adds negative or positive torque to the front, other than friction brakes - which have been there forever.
It would indeed be very easy to package a regen component on the front axle, but very difficult to sell that idea.
stemll said:
There will be no motor on the front axle (no way F1 is going 4WD) and there will be no MGU-H. Th engine manufacturers were the driver to remove the MGU-H as it has no place in an EV as there is no H.
The tweaks will all be software to change the regen and deployment rates. Maybe more for 2027 but not this year.
We are discussing 2027, 2026 they are screwed with just tinkering.The tweaks will all be software to change the regen and deployment rates. Maybe more for 2027 but not this year.
TheDeuce said:
I just think they don't want anything 'witchcraft' related on the front axle.
Free running means that nothing adds negative or positive torque to the front, other than friction brakes - which have been there forever.
It would indeed be very easy to package a regen component on the front axle, but very difficult to sell that idea.
It would be a piece of piss to sell.Free running means that nothing adds negative or positive torque to the front, other than friction brakes - which have been there forever.
It would indeed be very easy to package a regen component on the front axle, but very difficult to sell that idea.
732NM said:
TheDeuce said:
I just think they don't want anything 'witchcraft' related on the front axle.
Free running means that nothing adds negative or positive torque to the front, other than friction brakes - which have been there forever.
It would indeed be very easy to package a regen component on the front axle, but very difficult to sell that idea.
It would be a piece of piss to sell.Free running means that nothing adds negative or positive torque to the front, other than friction brakes - which have been there forever.
It would indeed be very easy to package a regen component on the front axle, but very difficult to sell that idea.
Let's see what happens. I predict pissing about with what they have already specified will happen, and that come 2028 they'll revise the power split.
And that f
k all will happen on the front axle.I don't know if I'm right but I'll take a friendly wager if you will
732NM said:
stemll said:
There will be no motor on the front axle (no way F1 is going 4WD) and there will be no MGU-H. Th engine manufacturers were the driver to remove the MGU-H as it has no place in an EV as there is no H.
The tweaks will all be software to change the regen and deployment rates. Maybe more for 2027 but not this year.
We are discussing 2027, 2026 they are screwed with just tinkering.The tweaks will all be software to change the regen and deployment rates. Maybe more for 2027 but not this year.
).stemll said:
What I wrote stands for 2027 too. There will be no front motor and no MGU-H. More than happy for you to prove me wrong once the 2027 regs are released. I've been wrong more often that I care to remember, but I'm confident in this (so that's me screwed ).
We are all just speculating, spit balling how to get out of this almighty cockup. ).Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff