Adrian Newey starts work at Aston Martin

[hondajack85]

You hire or go into a joint project and hope the other party can deliver what they said. All you can go on is their previous success,which is a pretty strong indicator in this case.
What makes me laugh is the suggestion someone from Aston should have parked themselves outside the honda factory and poked into everything going on.
These must be the people that make mechanics lives hell by standing over them while they fits some part or other lol.
Maybe its the same crowd that were hysterical about racing to see Trump 1 minute after he got elected to be first in line with the deranged deal maker.
Or even the people that buy 1000x of toilet paper as soon as something or other is mentioned in the news.
Patience and trust is the only thing in short supply in many cases.

[anonymous_user]

hondajack85 said:

All you can go on is their previous success,which is a pretty strong indicator in this case

Is it?

it took them 4 years to win a race when they re-entered F1 with new engine regs

Edited by anonymous_user on Friday 20th March 16:02

[WestyCarl]

hondajack85 said:

What makes me laugh is the suggestion someone from Aston should have parked themselves outside the honda factory and poked into everything going on.

I've worked for a Japanese corporation for 20+yrs and this is exactly what I would have done. Dress it up in a liason / co-ordination title but I'd have had someone senior from Aston over in Honda since the start.

The Japanese are good at many things, what they are not good at is quick decision making and facing (admitting) reality when it's not good.

[shtu]

WestyCarl said:

I've worked for a Japanese corporation for 20+yrs and this is exactly what I would have done. Dress it up in a liason / co-ordination title but I'd have had someone senior from Aston over in Honda since the start.

The Japanese are good at many things, what they are not good at is quick decision making and facing (admitting) reality when it's not good.

Absolutely this. You don't sign a deal of that magnitude and then go "see you in 2026 with those winning engines", you have to have your own people close enough to see what's happening, are things progressing as planned, and so on.

Aston seem to have missed that somehow.

[MustangGT]

hondajack85 said:

All you can go on is their previous success,which is a pretty strong indicator in this case.

Not at all, the regulations are so different it is a fresh start, especially since they lost most of the expertise to RBR and their other motorsports divisions. Not that they were that successful the last time for several years.

[Otispunkmeyer]

WestyCarl said:

hondajack85 said:

What makes me laugh is the suggestion someone from Aston should have parked themselves outside the honda factory and poked into everything going on.

I've worked for a Japanese corporation for 20+yrs and this is exactly what I would have done. Dress it up in a liason / co-ordination title but I'd have had someone senior from Aston over in Honda since the start.

The Japanese are good at many things, what they are not good at is quick decision making and facing (admitting) reality when it's not good.

Same. Currently work for one. That would be day one for me as well for exactly the things you state.

[skwdenyer]

Otispunkmeyer said:

WestyCarl said:

hondajack85 said:

What makes me laugh is the suggestion someone from Aston should have parked themselves outside the honda factory and poked into everything going on.

I've worked for a Japanese corporation for 20+yrs and this is exactly what I would have done. Dress it up in a liason / co-ordination title but I'd have had someone senior from Aston over in Honda since the start.

The Japanese are good at many things, what they are not good at is quick decision making and facing (admitting) reality when it's not good.

Same. Currently work for one. That would be day one for me as well for exactly the things you state.

Likewise. I've worked in Tokyo. Never seen so many people around a table for a meeting in which nothing is decided There's a groupthink momentum to Japanese business which definitely can need reigning-in sometimes...

My Mother also did business in Tokyo many years ago, dealing with NHK. Once they'd made her an honorary man to be able to meet with her at all (really!), they then sat down. 15 people from NHK on one side; my Mother + 1 on the other. "How are you able to take decisions without everyone else here?" was the next question...

[skwdenyer]

StevieBee said:

RacerMike said:

I ve heard various comments from people I know who ve worked on various projects of his, and he simply does not understand compromise of any kind.

I'm sure it was one of his early cars that required drivers to cut the toes of their racing books off to enable them to operate the pedals without snagging, such was the compactness of the design. A small 'bubble' above the footwell would have solved the problem and had no impact on aero but he wouldn't allow it.

I recall a lovely story about Colin Chapman, which I've undoubtedly mis-remembered somewhat, but here goes. During the development of the Lotus Elite, Chapman had a much older engineer who acted as something of a mentor. This chap recalls Chapman banging on his front door at 1am. "Its a disaster," he said, "the car's too small." Chapman was renowned for making cars just big enough for him (5'8" from memory). So he said, there just wasn't enough internal height in the car. Another 1.5" was needed.

"Can't you raise the roof by 1.5"?" "No, that will ruin the styling and aerodynamics."
"Can't you drop the floor 1.5"?" "No, the ground clearance is already marginal."
"Well, can't you raise the roof by 3/4" and drop the floor by 3/4?"

So the story goes, Chapman thought for a moment, turned bright red, and exploded "I'm not doing that; it's a bloody compromise!"

[Bright Halo]

Bright Halo said:

This will end in tears.
Adrian Newey is not and has never been a team leader!
A genius yes, but not a team leader.

This was so obviously going to happen that I just cannot for the life of me understand how AM did not see it was the wrong decision.

[asfault]

This is japanese culture though isn't it?
Part of the fukushima problem was someone lower down spotting a potential problem but it not being culturally right to question your boss so nothing gets said or done?
Also Toyota failed in f1 for trying to make their own brakes instead of just buying from Brembo like everyone else did.

[SturdyHSV]

It's likely not a dissimilar perspective with Mr Stroll as Mr Newey.

It's very common with successful or intelligent people, they see their results in an area, and extrapolate those abilities into any other area assuming their sheer magnificence will make them brilliant at anything they turn their hand to.

Whoever made the decision to stop Adrian wasting his time as TP, good on them for making it quickly at least, if only they'd realised beforehand what a ridiculous notion it was!

[732NM]

It was never a long term position, the main issue currently is not something Newey or any TP can fix. They need a PU that functions.

[thegreenhell]

Even if Wheatley is heading there, it won't be for a few months while he tends his garden. Either Newey or A.N.Other will need to fill in as interim TP, probably for most of the rest of this season.

[Purosangue]

thegreenhell said:

Even if Wheatley is heading there, it won't be for a few months while he tends his garden. Either Newey or A.N.Other will need to fill in as interim TP, probably for most of the rest of this season.

was thinking the same thing , has to be for next year surely .

in the meantime Aston and Audi stagnate at the back of the grid , reckon if Aston are not at the front next year Alonso will walk

[WestyCarl]

Purosangue said:

thegreenhell said:

Even if Wheatley is heading there, it won't be for a few months while he tends his garden. Either Newey or A.N.Other will need to fill in as interim TP, probably for most of the rest of this season.

was thinking the same thing , has to be for next year surely .

in the meantime Aston and Audi stagnate at the back of the grid , reckon if Aston are not at the front next year Alonso will walk

I have no real idea what's wrong with the Honda engine, but knowing Japanese corporations it'll be 2 yrs before it's competitive, if at all.

Frankly I think there's a serious risk Honda will pull out again at the end of this year.

[Finlandese]

WestyCarl said:

I have no real idea what's wrong with the Honda engine, but knowing Japanese corporations it'll be 2 yrs before it's competitive, if at all.

Frankly I think there's a serious risk Honda will pull out again at the end of this year.

It certainly looks like Aston is doing everything they can to drive Honda away from F1.

[hondajack85]

They are just testing and 2 races behind and have identified their problems. There is not much they could have done
about it before those races.
Who is to say the honda engine fix wont be in place this coming weekend. They dont even have to go far with the parts.
Lets send them positive vibes (An alien concept around here lol)

[WestyCarl]

hondajack85 said:

Lets send them positive vibes (An alien concept around here lol)

I want Aston to succed (I have alot of admiration for Newey and Alonso. But having worked for a Japanese Corp I just don't think their corporate culture is suited for for fast pace and decision making of F1.

[hondajack85]

WestyCarl said:

hondajack85 said:

Lets send them positive vibes (An alien concept around here lol)

I want Aston to succed (I have alot of admiration for Newey and Alonso. But having worked for a Japanese Corp I just don't think their corporate culture is suited for for fast pace and decision making of F1.

Pretty much the whole of F1 is in the UK and they must all be highly motivated go getters. But a lot of the teams are just tooling about at the back looking busy lol.

[suffolk009]

I read that Newey was only ever appointed as a place holder until they found a new TP. Most people seem to forget that.

I also read somewhere that the problem with the Honda engine vibrations were caused by Newey saying the engine was "too long" and getting them to move the MGU from the back to the front of the block. I'm sorry, I cannot remember the source.