Escapade Silverstone Weekend
Discussion
I was not questioning anything about who owns it etc or the legalities of it, I am not interested.
The venue has expanded quite a lot in recent years, and if you look at Google Earth views of where the apartments are now, over many years back you can see it is fenced off and not used by the track at all other than for parking, storage, camping at the F1 or other events. Hence my presumption it was maybe not wholly owned but leased, on a previous thread about this project on other forums it was mentioned that it was not owned by the BRDC or Silverstone. Maybe they were wrong. Or it was bought back to be sold on to these people.
If you watch footage from years ago on Hangar Straight you will see fields are almost next to the track so the venue has bought land and fairly large chunks of it over many years, or maybe owned it anyway and simply retrieved it back.
This is also why they now ask for parking charges, not only as it is basically free money for them literally, they also have removed a lot of parking space. It is again motorway services mentality, you come here you do what we tell you. Your event is here.
The only motorsport venue in the UK I think that has this fairly ruthless approach to spectators, and clearly a result of Pringle as it was not this way before.
The venue has expanded quite a lot in recent years, and if you look at Google Earth views of where the apartments are now, over many years back you can see it is fenced off and not used by the track at all other than for parking, storage, camping at the F1 or other events. Hence my presumption it was maybe not wholly owned but leased, on a previous thread about this project on other forums it was mentioned that it was not owned by the BRDC or Silverstone. Maybe they were wrong. Or it was bought back to be sold on to these people.
If you watch footage from years ago on Hangar Straight you will see fields are almost next to the track so the venue has bought land and fairly large chunks of it over many years, or maybe owned it anyway and simply retrieved it back.
This is also why they now ask for parking charges, not only as it is basically free money for them literally, they also have removed a lot of parking space. It is again motorway services mentality, you come here you do what we tell you. Your event is here.
The only motorsport venue in the UK I think that has this fairly ruthless approach to spectators, and clearly a result of Pringle as it was not this way before.
coppice said:
48k said:
Leasehold is pretty common place for flats and commercial property in the UK.
The BRDC owns Silverstone (the land). Escapade "flats" are each on a 125 year commercial lease from 2024.
I'd read that unlike a normal commercial lease , the lessee can not even occupy the premises all year The BRDC owns Silverstone (the land). Escapade "flats" are each on a 125 year commercial lease from 2024.
bergclimber34 said:
I was not questioning anything about who owns it etc or the legalities of it, I am not interested.
The venue has expanded quite a lot in recent years, and if you look at Google Earth views of where the apartments are now, over many years back you can see it is fenced off and not used by the track at all other than for parking, storage, camping at the F1 or other events. Hence my presumption it was maybe not wholly owned but leased, on a previous thread about this project on other forums it was mentioned that it was not owned by the BRDC or Silverstone. Maybe they were wrong. Or it was bought back to be sold on to these people.
If you watch footage from years ago on Hangar Straight you will see fields are almost next to the track so the venue has bought land and fairly large chunks of it over many years, or maybe owned it anyway and simply retrieved it back.
This is also why they now ask for parking charges, not only as it is basically free money for them literally, they also have removed a lot of parking space. It is again motorway services mentality, you come here you do what we tell you. Your event is here.
The only motorsport venue in the UK I think that has this fairly ruthless approach to spectators, and clearly a result of Pringle as it was not this way before.
Either I'm not understanding you, or you're not understanding me.The venue has expanded quite a lot in recent years, and if you look at Google Earth views of where the apartments are now, over many years back you can see it is fenced off and not used by the track at all other than for parking, storage, camping at the F1 or other events. Hence my presumption it was maybe not wholly owned but leased, on a previous thread about this project on other forums it was mentioned that it was not owned by the BRDC or Silverstone. Maybe they were wrong. Or it was bought back to be sold on to these people.
If you watch footage from years ago on Hangar Straight you will see fields are almost next to the track so the venue has bought land and fairly large chunks of it over many years, or maybe owned it anyway and simply retrieved it back.
This is also why they now ask for parking charges, not only as it is basically free money for them literally, they also have removed a lot of parking space. It is again motorway services mentality, you come here you do what we tell you. Your event is here.
The only motorsport venue in the UK I think that has this fairly ruthless approach to spectators, and clearly a result of Pringle as it was not this way before.
bergclimber34 said:
I was not questioning anything about who owns it etc or the legalities of it, I am not interested.
To me you literally are. You stated that it used to be a field next to the track therefore the BRDC didn't own it. I'm saying they did own it they just didn't do anything with that particular bit. They own over 700 acres of land in total (which includes the industrial estate that they have leased out on a long lease). It's a huge amount of land.
48k said:
bergclimber34 said:
I was not questioning anything about who owns it etc or the legalities of it, I am not interested.
The venue has expanded quite a lot in recent years, and if you look at Google Earth views of where the apartments are now, over many years back you can see it is fenced off and not used by the track at all other than for parking, storage, camping at the F1 or other events. Hence my presumption it was maybe not wholly owned but leased, on a previous thread about this project on other forums it was mentioned that it was not owned by the BRDC or Silverstone. Maybe they were wrong. Or it was bought back to be sold on to these people.
If you watch footage from years ago on Hangar Straight you will see fields are almost next to the track so the venue has bought land and fairly large chunks of it over many years, or maybe owned it anyway and simply retrieved it back.
This is also why they now ask for parking charges, not only as it is basically free money for them literally, they also have removed a lot of parking space. It is again motorway services mentality, you come here you do what we tell you. Your event is here.
The only motorsport venue in the UK I think that has this fairly ruthless approach to spectators, and clearly a result of Pringle as it was not this way before.
Either I'm not understanding you, or you're not understanding me.The venue has expanded quite a lot in recent years, and if you look at Google Earth views of where the apartments are now, over many years back you can see it is fenced off and not used by the track at all other than for parking, storage, camping at the F1 or other events. Hence my presumption it was maybe not wholly owned but leased, on a previous thread about this project on other forums it was mentioned that it was not owned by the BRDC or Silverstone. Maybe they were wrong. Or it was bought back to be sold on to these people.
If you watch footage from years ago on Hangar Straight you will see fields are almost next to the track so the venue has bought land and fairly large chunks of it over many years, or maybe owned it anyway and simply retrieved it back.
This is also why they now ask for parking charges, not only as it is basically free money for them literally, they also have removed a lot of parking space. It is again motorway services mentality, you come here you do what we tell you. Your event is here.
The only motorsport venue in the UK I think that has this fairly ruthless approach to spectators, and clearly a result of Pringle as it was not this way before.
bergclimber34 said:
I was not questioning anything about who owns it etc or the legalities of it, I am not interested.
To me you literally are. You stated that it used to be a field next to the track therefore the BRDC didn't own it. I'm saying they did own it they just didn't do anything with that particular bit. They own over 700 acres of land in total (which includes the industrial estate that they have leased out on a long lease). It's a huge amount of land.
48K, you are correct chap. It was used as parking and ad hoc camping and basically non operational land.
Yes that was my point, that it was either unused or not theirs at all, which is now clear.
I had read elsewhere that is was owned elsewhere.
Either way the venue has bought or reclaimed a lot of land in recent years. Not sure who owned the land with all the industry on it opposite the Wing, I know a few firms who are now based there.
I had read elsewhere that is was owned elsewhere.
Either way the venue has bought or reclaimed a lot of land in recent years. Not sure who owned the land with all the industry on it opposite the Wing, I know a few firms who are now based there.
bergclimber34 said:
Yes that was my point, that it was either unused or not theirs at all, which is now clear.
I had read elsewhere that is was owned elsewhere.
Either way the venue has bought or reclaimed a lot of land in recent years. Not sure who owned the land with all the industry on it opposite the Wing, I know a few firms who are now based there.
I'm confused as to what your point is. Who cares if they're buying land or repurposing land they already owned!?I had read elsewhere that is was owned elsewhere.
Either way the venue has bought or reclaimed a lot of land in recent years. Not sure who owned the land with all the industry on it opposite the Wing, I know a few firms who are now based there.
They're just one of a million businesses in the UK trying to use their resources to provide something a customer might pay for. Who cares about the ownership of those resources?
It is interesting to me as I have read different stories about how this place does what it does, if you are not interested move on, as I do with most of what you post.
It is quite a departure for a UK venue or anywhere else to do something like this, and when you see what people are prepared to spend to go there, I find it fascinating.
a) how much disposable money people have blows me away at times, it should not but it does.
b) how these things are going to make money over time.
c) the history of the venue, who owns what, what it was used for in the past.
I have spent most of my life at race venues all over the UK and the amount this place has changed is staggering compared to any other venue in the UK really.
It is quite a departure for a UK venue or anywhere else to do something like this, and when you see what people are prepared to spend to go there, I find it fascinating.
a) how much disposable money people have blows me away at times, it should not but it does.
b) how these things are going to make money over time.
c) the history of the venue, who owns what, what it was used for in the past.
I have spent most of my life at race venues all over the UK and the amount this place has changed is staggering compared to any other venue in the UK really.
bergclimber34 said:
It is interesting to me as I have read different stories about how this place does what it does, if you are not interested move on, as I do with most of what you post.
It is quite a departure for a UK venue or anywhere else to do something like this, and when you see what people are prepared to spend to go there, I find it fascinating.
a) how much disposable money people have blows me away at times, it should not but it does.
b) how these things are going to make money over time.
c) the history of the venue, who owns what, what it was used for in the past.
I have spent most of my life at race venues all over the UK and the amount this place has changed is staggering compared to any other venue in the UK really.
You seem obsessed with other people's money, and it's leading to some bizarre posts from you.It is quite a departure for a UK venue or anywhere else to do something like this, and when you see what people are prepared to spend to go there, I find it fascinating.
a) how much disposable money people have blows me away at times, it should not but it does.
b) how these things are going to make money over time.
c) the history of the venue, who owns what, what it was used for in the past.
I have spent most of my life at race venues all over the UK and the amount this place has changed is staggering compared to any other venue in the UK really.
Your point 'a' above, it makes zero sense. You can't be surprised at how much disposable income people have, but at the same time know you shouldn't be surprised. That's moronic. You can't be surprised by anything if you already know enough to not be surprised by that thing.
So what are we really left with from your generous posts? It's pretty much just a lot of waffle to exhibit how fed up you are that some people have some cash to burn.. an insult added to by the fact that what used to be a quaint British motorsport circuit has become so commercially valuable that it now makes sense to utilise surrounding land that was previously ignored. Are you really surprised that a commercial enterprise might evolve over half a century? Or are you just acting surprised when you already know know you shouldn't be?
If you're interested in something then you can discuss that thing, without the constant digs at how much money other people have or the passive disgust that a business has developed over the years.
bergclimber34 said:
It is quite a departure for a UK venue or anywhere else to do something like this
That's simply not true. There is The Lodge at Oulton Park, Algarve Race Resorts and Circuito do Sol in Portugal, Ascari Race Resort in Spain, The Thermal Club, Monticello Motor Club and Spring Mountain Motor Resort in the USA for example. Outside of motorsport you have Tottenham Hotspur with plans to put apartments in the hotel they are building overlooking the stadium and even little old Milton Keynes Dons have a Hilton Hotel built in to their stadium and you can have rooms overlooking the pitch. Putting accomodation at sports venues is not a new idea.I'm really not sure what your beef is with Silverstone. There is no land grab going on, they've owned all the land since 1971 including the industrial area opposite that you mentioned. It's over 720 acres in total or just over 1.1 square miles of land. Of course they are not going to utilise every square foot all of the time and of course the business is going to evolve over 60 years. I'm struggling to understand what point you are trying to make. It just sounds like someone shaking their fist at a business for having the audacity to use its resources to generate revenue. Which is, frankly, bizarre, since that's the point of a business.
48k said:
bergclimber34 said:
It is quite a departure for a UK venue or anywhere else to do something like this
That's simply not true. There is The Lodge at Oulton Park, Algarve Race Resorts and Circuito do Sol in Portugal, Ascari Race Resort in Spain, The Thermal Club, Monticello Motor Club and Spring Mountain Motor Resort in the USA for example. Outside of motorsport you have Tottenham Hotspur with plans to put apartments in the hotel they are building overlooking the stadium and even little old Milton Keynes Dons have a Hilton Hotel built in to their stadium and you can have rooms overlooking the pitch. Putting accomodation at sports venues is not a new idea.I'm really not sure what your beef is with Silverstone. There is no land grab going on, they've owned all the land since 1971 including the industrial area opposite that you mentioned. It's over 720 acres in total or just over 1.1 square miles of land. Of course they are not going to utilise every square foot all of the time and of course the business is going to evolve over 60 years. I'm struggling to understand what point you are trying to make. It just sounds like someone shaking their fist at a business for having the audacity to use its resources to generate revenue. Which is, frankly, bizarre, since that's the point of a business.
EVERY circuit has changed to some extent, look at Donington with the industrial estate in the bottom paddock/ market area, or the new industrial estate at Snetterton that is going up. Even Thruxton is getting in on the act with its new owner.
Things move on, some things aren't to everyones taste, I for one was gutted when the Redgate Lodge got knocked down at Donington or when Silverstone changed the circuit to take out the original chicane (etc etc) but deal with it or just keep on moaning..... one is option significantly better for your mental health....
n3il123 said:
48k said:
bergclimber34 said:
It is quite a departure for a UK venue or anywhere else to do something like this
That's simply not true. There is The Lodge at Oulton Park, Algarve Race Resorts and Circuito do Sol in Portugal, Ascari Race Resort in Spain, The Thermal Club, Monticello Motor Club and Spring Mountain Motor Resort in the USA for example. Outside of motorsport you have Tottenham Hotspur with plans to put apartments in the hotel they are building overlooking the stadium and even little old Milton Keynes Dons have a Hilton Hotel built in to their stadium and you can have rooms overlooking the pitch. Putting accomodation at sports venues is not a new idea.I'm really not sure what your beef is with Silverstone. There is no land grab going on, they've owned all the land since 1971 including the industrial area opposite that you mentioned. It's over 720 acres in total or just over 1.1 square miles of land. Of course they are not going to utilise every square foot all of the time and of course the business is going to evolve over 60 years. I'm struggling to understand what point you are trying to make. It just sounds like someone shaking their fist at a business for having the audacity to use its resources to generate revenue. Which is, frankly, bizarre, since that's the point of a business.
EVERY circuit has changed to some extent, look at Donington with the industrial estate in the bottom paddock/ market area, or the new industrial estate at Snetterton that is going up. Even Thruxton is getting in on the act with its new owner.
Things move on, some things aren't to everyones taste, I for one was gutted when the Redgate Lodge got knocked down at Donington or when Silverstone changed the circuit to take out the original chicane (etc etc) but deal with it or just keep on moaning..... one is option significantly better for your mental health....
I think compared to most venues in the UK Silverstone has changed far,far more than others, layout, pricing, buildings, environment, they have all changed in some ways, but not as much as it has there.
Palmer was supposed to be releasing his hew venture this year was he not, not seen anything about it.
Palmer was supposed to be releasing his hew venture this year was he not, not seen anything about it.
bergclimber34 said:
I think compared to most venues in the UK Silverstone has changed far,far more than others, layout, pricing, buildings, environment, they have all changed in some ways, but not as much as it has there.
Palmer was supposed to be releasing his hew venture this year was he not, not seen anything about it.
So you're pivoting from "I can't believe people pay stupid money for these apartments" via "Silverstone don't own the land they built them on" to "Silverstone has changed beyond recognition, by the way what's Palmer doing?". Palmer was supposed to be releasing his hew venture this year was he not, not seen anything about it.
I'm struggling to understand what point you are trying to make.
But if you want to look at a circuit that has evolved beyond all recogition do some research on Trac Mon (Anglesey) over the last 30 years.
Agreed. But done over a fairly long period of time when it was bought and almost repressed. One if tye few UK venues I have not been to.
My point is that the apartments are built, done and people are happy to spend crazy money there.
The Donington thing has yet to materialise, maybe this idea could only work at an F1 venue.
My point is that the apartments are built, done and people are happy to spend crazy money there.
The Donington thing has yet to materialise, maybe this idea could only work at an F1 venue.
bergclimber34 said:
My point is that the apartments are built, done and people are happy to spend crazy money there.
'Crazy' is relative. If you're a bus driver on £35k a year - it's beyond crazy. If you work in Investment Finance or run a company turning over £20m, it's barely petty cash!But keep in mind that for all circuits, the biggest margins are earned on big stuff - hospitality, fancy accommodation and the like. It's that margin that keeps general access tickets more affordable to more people. You may argue that £300 for a weekend's general access is still high and maybe it is, but not by so much as to make live F1 completely unobtainable to the majority that would like to attend.
bergclimber34 said:
The Donington thing has yet to materialise, maybe this idea could only work at an F1 venue.
This is interesting and perhaps deserving of a separate thread.I had a bit of Corporate Hospitality on the Saturday at the GP. Martin Brundle was the guest speaker. He mentioned that there has been a history of countries that have provided high levels of success in F1 being granted two races in a year. There were two in Spain when Alonso was winning, Two in Germany during the Schumacher / Vettel years plus you have Italy and France hosting two races (though for slightly different reasons).
With Hamilton and Norris and a plethora of British Drivers in F1, perhaps the time is right to consider a second UK race.
One of the chaps at my table was involved in F1 in some way and mentioned that Donington is the only UK circuit capable of being brought up to current F1 spec'.
So you never know!
I do recall there mention of a circuit being built around the Olympic Park in Stratford. But heard nothing on this recently so assume that has gone away, But being an Essex boy - would be quite handy!
bergclimber34 said:
Agreed. But done over a fairly long period of time when it was bought and almost repressed. One if tye few UK venues I have not been to.
My point is that the apartments are built, done and people are happy to spend crazy money there.
The Donington thing has yet to materialise, maybe this idea could only work at an F1 venue.
The wing was built in 2011 ... 15 years ago which isn't exactly recent in my eyes, which at the same time the last changes were made to the circuit layout. Other than escapade what other "major " changes has there been? I guess the college and a few industrial units outside the actual circuit the kart circuit is the latest which can only be a good thing. My point is that the apartments are built, done and people are happy to spend crazy money there.
The Donington thing has yet to materialise, maybe this idea could only work at an F1 venue.
Donington Hallhttps://www.msv.com/donington-hall-e... Hotel and motor house scheduled for early 2027 opening.
StevieBee said:
One of the chaps at my table was involved in F1 in some way and mentioned that Donington is the only UK circuit capable of being brought up to current F1 spec'.
So you never know!
What! are ruin another circuit for the, majority of, the motorsport community! So you never know!
I have the opinion, and I think it's far from unique, certainly in club level competitors, that circuits suitable for F1 and the demands it makes of the venue make it much less attractive to the club competitor who's paying for their racing out of their pocket..
Of the venues we go to Silverstone is, unfortunately, right at the bottom of my desirability list.. it's bloody massive, hard to get about, inhospitable and just too much like hard work to attend - but all of that is driven (lol..) by the great god that is F1 and the circus that goes with it, see it doing what it does for the GP and it works, it really does, but for the club meeting a few weeks later perhaps not, at least IMHO...
I could have competed at the Classic but had a fun weekend at Snetterton instead.. nice track, good vibes, nice place to go for the weekend etc..
Don't get me wrong, if I'm in a Championship and we're going there then I'll duly join in, but if I'm not and just picking nice race meetings to do, then I'll be at Oulton, Anglesey, Snetterton... instead..
Great write-up Paul! So many people forget that they should get to enjoy enjoy their hard-earned money the way they want to enjoy their hard-earned money!
I would enjoy your weekend more than an F1 weekend, especially watching four-wheel drifting Minis. I love Goodwood and will one day take Mrs PA as she would love it!
As to the architecture, I quite like it. Minimalist/brutalist? Certainly better than some.
Anyway, I'm off to spend some hard-earned on ladyboys, pag-pag and balut...Scherwiiiiinnng!
checks missis is not looking over mi shoulder and tiptoe off...
I would enjoy your weekend more than an F1 weekend, especially watching four-wheel drifting Minis. I love Goodwood and will one day take Mrs PA as she would love it!
As to the architecture, I quite like it. Minimalist/brutalist? Certainly better than some.
Anyway, I'm off to spend some hard-earned on ladyboys, pag-pag and balut...Scherwiiiiinnng!
checks missis is not looking over mi shoulder and tiptoe off...
You are right, if you earn hundreds of thousands a year stuff like that is pocket money hence the rather nonchalant post. Its his money he can do what he wants.
Still quite shocking when seen in relative terms to most of the country though I would say. But that is modern society.
I think in terms of development there, you have had the Wing, numerous circuit changes, the Porsche centre, the museum, the college, the kart track, the hotel,and the apartments and the expanding industrial area their side of the road.
That is pretty substantial compared to any other UK venue even in the last 20 years, most of that has been done in the last 10.
Oh and in that time, a complete rallycross circuit was built and lost.
Still quite shocking when seen in relative terms to most of the country though I would say. But that is modern society.
I think in terms of development there, you have had the Wing, numerous circuit changes, the Porsche centre, the museum, the college, the kart track, the hotel,and the apartments and the expanding industrial area their side of the road.
That is pretty substantial compared to any other UK venue even in the last 20 years, most of that has been done in the last 10.
Oh and in that time, a complete rallycross circuit was built and lost.
StevieBee said:
bergclimber34 said:
The Donington thing has yet to materialise, maybe this idea could only work at an F1 venue.
This is interesting and perhaps deserving of a separate thread.I had a bit of Corporate Hospitality on the Saturday at the GP. Martin Brundle was the guest speaker. He mentioned that there has been a history of countries that have provided high levels of success in F1 being granted two races in a year. There were two in Spain when Alonso was winning, Two in Germany during the Schumacher / Vettel years plus you have Italy and France hosting two races (though for slightly different reasons).
With Hamilton and Norris and a plethora of British Drivers in F1, perhaps the time is right to consider a second UK race.
One of the chaps at my table was involved in F1 in some way and mentioned that Donington is the only UK circuit capable of being brought up to current F1 spec'.
So you never know!
I do recall there mention of a circuit being built around the Olympic Park in Stratford. But heard nothing on this recently so assume that has gone away, But being an Essex boy - would be quite handy!
Sadly the only thing that would get F1 interested in a second UK GP, would be a street race around central London (Marble Arch, Buckingham Palace, and Hyde Park, not Stratford). Which isn’t happening unless and until the city elects a mayor willing to support and underwrite it.
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