Nigel Mansell one of the Greats ?

[williamp]

...I was also surprised he rates Ralf Schumahcer so highly.

[Alfie Noakes]

williamp said:

...I was also surprised he rates Ralf Schumahcer so highly.

Who rates RS?

[flemke]

Alfie Noakes said:

flemke said:

Nige doesn't seem to have been very popular in the Andretti household.

That's hardly surprising bearing in mind how easily he achived success in Indy cars.

Could be.
Mario still seems to think that Michael would have been a great success in F1 if he'd been given a fair opportunity by Ron.
It's also interesting to read Mario assert that Michael was begging for more opportunities to test and develop the car here in Europe, whilst many others have said that, after an F1 race was over, Michael couldn't get back to the States quickly enough.
A father will be blind to his child's weaknesses, and one cannot blame a man for that. Mario's paternal bias has, however, slightly blemished his otherwise sterling reputation for seeing the facts and talking straight about them.

[Alfie Noakes]

flemke said:

Alfie Noakes said:

flemke said:

Nige doesn't seem to have been very popular in the Andretti household.

That's hardly surprising bearing in mind how easily he achieved success in Indy cars.

Could be.
Mario still seems to think that Michael would have been a great success in F1 if he'd been given a fair opportunity by Ron.
It's also interesting to read Mario assert that Michael was begging for more opportunities to test and develop the car here in Europe, whilst many others have said that, after an F1 race was over, Michael couldn't get back to the States quickly enough.
A father will be blind to his child's weaknesses, and one cannot blame a man for that. Mario's paternal bias has, however, slightly blemished his otherwise sterling reputation for seeing the facts and talking straight about them.

In Dalys book he cites Michael's reticence to live in Europe as the reason he fell from favour at McLaren. I can see their point, especially as they had Senna as a comparison.

He also rates Mario very highly.

I can recommend Dalys book it's full of useful stuff for the competition driver, except when they get to the mental approach. But they all fudge that one ;-)


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Books/s?ie=UTF8&rh=n%3...

[entropy]

flemke said:

Alfie Noakes said:

flemke said:

Nige doesn't seem to have been very popular in the Andretti household.

That's hardly surprising bearing in mind how easily he achived success in Indy cars.

A father will be blind to his child's weaknesses, and one cannot blame a man for that. Mario's paternal bias has, however, slightly blemished his otherwise sterling reputation for seeing the facts and talking straight about them.

Mario's quotes I rarely take a pinch of salt, always comes across as someone with fair opinions.

I'm pretty sure Mario criticised Michael for commuting into Europe and the flipside of Michael not given much testing opportunities.

Also remember him saying grandson Marco should move over to Europe and get an F1 test role.

[entropy]

Alfie Noakes said:

flemke said:

Alfie Noakes said:

flemke said:

Nige doesn't seem to have been very popular in the Andretti household.

That's hardly surprising bearing in mind how easily he achieved success in Indy cars.

Could be.
Mario still seems to think that Michael would have been a great success in F1 if he'd been given a fair opportunity by Ron.
It's also interesting to read Mario assert that Michael was begging for more opportunities to test and develop the car here in Europe, whilst many others have said that, after an F1 race was over, Michael couldn't get back to the States quickly enough.
A father will be blind to his child's weaknesses, and one cannot blame a man for that. Mario's paternal bias has, however, slightly blemished his otherwise sterling reputation for seeing the facts and talking straight about them.

In Dalys book he cites Michael's reticence to live in Europe as the reason he fell from favour at McLaren. I can see their point, especially as they had Senna as a comparison.

He also rates Mario very highly.

I can recommend Dalys book it's full of useful stuff for the competition driver, except when they get to the mental approach. But they all fudge that one ;-)


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Books/s?ie=UTF8&rh=n%3...

Thanks for that. I was wondering whether he had a book out. Fantastic commentator, one of the reasons why I continued watching Champcars after Mansell left.

[35secToNuvolari]

entropy said:

flemke said:

Alfie Noakes said:

flemke said:

Nige doesn't seem to have been very popular in the Andretti household.

That's hardly surprising bearing in mind how easily he achived success in Indy cars.

A father will be blind to his child's weaknesses, and one cannot blame a man for that. Mario's paternal bias has, however, slightly blemished his otherwise sterling reputation for seeing the facts and talking straight about them.

Mario's quotes I rarely take a pinch of salt, always comes across as someone with fair opinions.

I'm pretty sure Mario criticised Michael for commuting into Europe and the flipside of Michael not given much testing opportunities.

Also remember him saying grandson Marco should move over to Europe and get an F1 test role.

Re mario/michael: entropy, that's the way i remember it as well. There is an entertaining (revealing?) part in one of the behind the scenes at mclaren documentaries where hakkinen is struggling to match michaels pace at silverstone. Ascanelli, the engineer, puts it down to driver brain problem.

[stuttgartmetal]

McLaren, The Team BBC One.
Well due a re-air on BBC3/4
Michael just couldn't keep his foot off the brake pedal, he was used to steel brakes, and just never had the bottle to brake late.
He gave up really.

Mansell was a car breaker. He just never had mechanical sympathy, and broke everything he drove. His major pro and con. He drove it flat out. Never considered the strategy.

His time at Ferrari almost fades from memory, but Prost being lured to Williams, and some kind of mis-parity between drivers, over rooms at grand prix, led to Mansell jacking. Pathetic really.
His US tour was akin to the Heavyweight World Boxing Champion fighting at county fairs.

Its undoubted he is super quick.
Take a look at the F1 Top Gear driver list.

[entropy]

stuttgartmetal said:

McLaren, The Team BBC One.
Well due a re-air on BBC3/4
Michael just couldn't keep his foot off the brake pedal, he was used to steel brakes, and just never had the bottle to brake late.
He gave up really.

Mansell was a car breaker. He just never had mechanical sympathy, and broke everything he drove. His major pro and con. He drove it flat out. Never considered the strategy.

His time at Ferrari almost fades from memory, but Prost being lured to Williams, and some kind of mis-parity between drivers, over rooms at grand prix, led to Mansell jacking. Pathetic really.
His US tour was akin to the Heavyweight World Boxing Champion fighting at county fairs.

Its undoubted he is super quick.
Take a look at the F1 Top Gear driver list.

True but there's the odd race like the Hungarian GP where he set the car up for the race, came from nowhere to destroy the field.

[entropy]

35secToNuvolari said:

entropy said:

flemke said:

Alfie Noakes said:

flemke said:

Nige doesn't seem to have been very popular in the Andretti household.

That's hardly surprising bearing in mind how easily he achived success in Indy cars.

A father will be blind to his child's weaknesses, and one cannot blame a man for that. Mario's paternal bias has, however, slightly blemished his otherwise sterling reputation for seeing the facts and talking straight about them.

Mario's quotes I rarely take a pinch of salt, always comes across as someone with fair opinions.

I'm pretty sure Mario criticised Michael for commuting into Europe and the flipside of Michael not given much testing opportunities.

Also remember him saying grandson Marco should move over to Europe and get an F1 test role.

Re mario/michael: entropy, that's the way i remember it as well. There is an entertaining (revealing?) part in one of the behind the scenes at mclaren documentaries where hakkinen is struggling to match michaels pace at silverstone. Ascanelli, the engineer, puts it down to driver brain problem.

That's where my idea of Hakkinen being over-rated came from. People talk about Senna's and Schumacher's feedback when they jumped into F1, and there's Mika getting a telling off from Ron.

[flemke]

entropy said:

That's where my idea of Hakkinen being over-rated came from. People talk about Senna's and Schumacher's feedback when they jumped into F1, and there's Mika getting a telling off from Ron.

I think Mika eventually figured it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4uNSYTnhnA

[Alfie Noakes]

I knew it was that one before I looked at it. I remember jumping up and down in my seat at that.

Nuff said!

[35secToNuvolari]

I didn't retell the anecdote to diminish Hakkinen's talent, only to highlight that Michael's pace wasn't completely hopeless, and that difficult circumstances and a poor strategy contributed to his failure.

Edited by 35secToNuvolari on Wednesday 3rd September 15:32

[anonymous-user]

entropy said:

35secToNuvolari said:

entropy said:

flemke said:

Alfie Noakes said:

flemke said:

Nige doesn't seem to have been very popular in the Andretti household.

That's hardly surprising bearing in mind how easily he achived success in Indy cars.

A father will be blind to his child's weaknesses, and one cannot blame a man for that. Mario's paternal bias has, however, slightly blemished his otherwise sterling reputation for seeing the facts and talking straight about them.

Mario's quotes I rarely take a pinch of salt, always comes across as someone with fair opinions.

I'm pretty sure Mario criticised Michael for commuting into Europe and the flipside of Michael not given much testing opportunities.

Also remember him saying grandson Marco should move over to Europe and get an F1 test role.

Re mario/michael: entropy, that's the way i remember it as well. There is an entertaining (revealing?) part in one of the behind the scenes at mclaren documentaries where hakkinen is struggling to match michaels pace at silverstone. Ascanelli, the engineer, puts it down to driver brain problem.

That's where my idea of Hakkinen being over-rated came from. People talk about Senna's and Schumacher's feedback when they jumped into F1, and there's Mika getting a telling off from Ron.

Mika didnt get a telling off from Ron, it was all quite amusing stuff with Giorgio Ascanelli going through the data with Mika and demonstrating his feedback wasn't what the data said. He ended saying it's a problem of driver confidence, which is going to happen from time to time when you are testing new components.

Part of being a good engineer is in how you manage the driver and get to understand what makes them tick in the car, you may have to say very different things to different drivers to get the same results from them. That's part of what makes motor racing such a fascinating business to work in, you are dealing with personalities and cant simply approach car setup from a pure engineering perspective. Once you've worked with someone long enough you begin to understand where the compromises you have to choose gain the best results, it's very much a head game as much as an engineering game.

If i remember correctly, once Michael was gone, Mika outqualified Senna at the first attempt, which brought a few wry smiles to the team and gave Senna a bit of a kick up the arse to raise his game. Watching Michael go about testing and racing was depressing as hell, and that was just from a spectators perspective, it must have been soul destroying for the engineers. Michael dumped his wife not long after, she didn't exactly look like a bundle of joy at having to do time in Europe on the footage i saw.

[Fortitude]

The Nigel Mansell Story

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoOEQJmAEkA

[Muzzer79]

You know you've reached peak cool when you're hammering an F40 around Fiorano, in the wet, with your flat cap on and gold ID bracelet casually dangling off your wrist

[LukeBrown66]

As a kid he was a hero, but as I grew up I found him to be less and less likeable, the endless moaning and the rather sad comebacks I think took something away from a mercurial latter part of his career.

Literally anyone could have won the title in the 92 Williams, he was not always quicker than Patrese, often not in qualifying or Piquet for that matter in their time.
But he got results and in a fight there was none better, and unlike Senna he was also fair. I would say he was the best overtaker in F1 from 86 to 92, including Senna.

Yet I also look for the opinions of those he worked with, interviews with Head and Dernie are split, Patrick thought he was fine, Dernie thought he was a womble who was lazy and moaned incessantly then changed his chat to suit himself.

I think the truth is in the middle, like most elite sportsmen, catch them wrong they will be nasty, but there are so many stories of him spending hours with fans etc that youncannt relate that to him fully.

I think he was unlucky to be around at the same time as Pros, PIquet and Senna, as he was a step above everyone else. Bit like Moss, always someone better sadly.

[paulguitar]

LukeBrown66 said:

Bit like Moss, always someone better sadly.

Who was better than Moss? When he was very young, he was happy to play understudy to Fangio, but, as I understand it, after that, even the other drivers themselves tended to view Stirling as from another planet.

[Roofless Toothless]

Years ago I was chatting to a guy at Rye House kart track who told me that he raced karts with Nigel Mansell. I asked what was he like? His answer was, either out in front or up a f**king tree.

He gained massively in my estimation when I saw him attending Martin Hines' funeral at Waltham Abbey in 2011.

[Mike230]

A single championship doesn't do him justice in my opinion. He was a balls out racer who raced and beat the likes of Senna and Prost.

I remember watching him in the BTCC at Donnington in '98. Absolutely throwing it down and he binned it in the first race and I was gutted. Only for an amazing race to take place and him come through the field in race 2 challenging for the win if I remember rightly.