Lewis Hamilton G.O.A.T. ?
Discussion
mat205125 said:
I hope that we get to see Hamilton in a mercedes that's on the same performance planet as the rest of the grid, to see him tested in a situation that gives him a chance to shine like Senna did in Monaco 84 or Donnington 93
He doesn't really require a 'chance to shine'. There are whole seasons available where Hamilton had identical equipment, take a look at GP2 in 2006, and, perhaps F3 Euroseries in 2005, where, in equal machinery, Hamilton won 16 of the 20 races. (He was DSQ from one on a technicality). If it is only F1 that is of interest, there is plenty of that where Hamilton has not had a car advantage. For much of 2018 and 2019, for example, leading even Luca Di Montezemolo to say that he thought Lewis would have been champion in the Ferrari.
Another notable stat, in the past 30 years, only 3 drivers have won the world championship in a car that didn’t win the constructors championship;
Schuee in 94, Because we lost Senna.
Mika in 99 Because Schuee broke his leg and was out for half of the season.
Lewis in 08
Wet qually and races tend to nullify the car advantage. Wasn't there one recently where HAM absolutely destroyed BOT?
yes just checked - 1.4 sec faster than Bottas. HAM must have been really really really really 'lucky' at the Styrian GP (and the other wet events where opponents were beaten)
yes just checked - 1.4 sec faster than Bottas. HAM must have been really really really really 'lucky' at the Styrian GP (and the other wet events where opponents were beaten)
Catatafish said:
Wet qually and races tend to nullify the car advantage. Wasn't there one recently where HAM absolutely destroyed BOT?
yes just checked - 1.4 sec faster than Bottas. HAM must have been really really really really 'lucky' at the Styrian GP (and the other wet events where opponents were beaten)
There was a period of something like 5 YEARS where Hamilton did not lose a rain-affected race. Then you've got races like 2008 Silverstone, where he won by well over a full minute, having started in P4.yes just checked - 1.4 sec faster than Bottas. HAM must have been really really really really 'lucky' at the Styrian GP (and the other wet events where opponents were beaten)
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
C350Akra said:
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
Listen carefully to Niki.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SZTJzIRQM
Bo_apex said:
C350Akra said:
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
Listen carefully to Niki.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SZTJzIRQM
mat205125 said:
I hope that we get to see Hamilton in a mercedes that's on the same performance planet as the rest of the grid, to see him tested in a situation that gives him a chance to shine like Senna did in Monaco 84 or Donnington 93
As others have said, I think that any doubt or criticism you may have of Hamilton is addressed in his pre F1 career. You want to see him in equal equipment? He’s done that, and won. Want to see him without funding even? He did that, and won, in his early karting career. Want even, to see him win in cars he’s not even sat in? He did that, with radio controlled model cars, at age of 7, and won.
And he’s got three Blue Peter badges.
LH is clearly a top drawer F1 driver, but he's flattered by the technical regs, mercedes' budget and management and lack of any effective competition. He is not the GOAT- getting beaten by Rosberg and Button (two good but not great drivers) speaks to that.
When I look at Lauda, Senna, Prost and Schumacher, they managed to build entire teams around themselves (teams that were often failing until they arrived) in order to win. Senna, in particular, could have done whatever he wanted in life and succeeded- he just chose F1 racing to make his mark. LH however lacks depth, his success largely built on the back of Mercedes dollars, the same dollars which have harmed F1 and have made it unbelievably dull.
TLDR; he's good, not great and is a bit dim compared to the top 5% of drivers.
When I look at Lauda, Senna, Prost and Schumacher, they managed to build entire teams around themselves (teams that were often failing until they arrived) in order to win. Senna, in particular, could have done whatever he wanted in life and succeeded- he just chose F1 racing to make his mark. LH however lacks depth, his success largely built on the back of Mercedes dollars, the same dollars which have harmed F1 and have made it unbelievably dull.
TLDR; he's good, not great and is a bit dim compared to the top 5% of drivers.
paulguitar said:
There was a period of something like 5 YEARS where Hamilton did not lose a rain-affected race. Then you've got races like 2008 Silverstone, where he won by well over a full minute, having started in P4.
was anyone else watching something recently probably on sky when he was talking about that, and massa came up and he was like ".... massa... <just the right amount of pause and cheeky glint in his eye> ... He didn't like driving that car in the wet"All class, cracked me up
Piginapoke said:
getting beaten by Rosberg and Button (two good but not great drivers) speaks to that.
Hamilton beat Button 2/1 and Rosberg 3/1Piginapoke said:
When I look at Lauda, Senna, Prost and Schumacher, they managed to build entire teams around themselves (teams that were often failing until they arrived) in order to win.
Mercedes was not competitive prior to Hamilton being in the team.Piginapoke said:
Senna, in particular, could have done whatever he wanted in life and succeeded- he just chose F1 racing to make his mark. LH however lacks depth, his success largely built on the back of Mercedes dollars, the same dollars which have harmed F1 and have made it unbelievably dull.
Senna, and Schumacher, were both brilliant, but significantly flawed. Hamilton has had to resort to no on track (or off track) shenanigans in order to achieve even more.Piginapoke said:
TLDR; he's good, not great and is a bit dim compared to the top 5% of drivers.
Nonsense, and showing your true colours with that. MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
C350Akra said:
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
Listen carefully to Niki.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SZTJzIRQM
Either over sensitive or unaware of his mistake.
Bo_apex said:
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
C350Akra said:
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
Listen carefully to Niki.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SZTJzIRQM
Either over sensitive or unaware of his mistake.
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
C350Akra said:
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
Listen carefully to Niki.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SZTJzIRQM
Either over sensitive or unaware of his mistake.
Bo_apex said:
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
C350Akra said:
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
Listen carefully to Niki.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SZTJzIRQM
Either over sensitive or unaware of his mistake.
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
C350Akra said:
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
Listen carefully to Niki.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SZTJzIRQM
Either over sensitive or unaware of his mistake.
Even Lando Norris interprets Hamilton's record differently
"It doesn’t mean anything to me, really," said Norris. "He’s in a car which should win every race, basically.
Exige77 said:
Bo_apex said:
Yes we all have different interpretations.
Even Lando Norris interprets Hamilton's record differently
"It doesn’t mean anything to me, really," said Norris. "He’s in a car which should win every race, basically.
I think Lando later retracted that and apologised ?Even Lando Norris interprets Hamilton's record differently
"It doesn’t mean anything to me, really," said Norris. "He’s in a car which should win every race, basically.
p1stonhead said:
Exige77 said:
Bo_apex said:
Yes we all have different interpretations.
Even Lando Norris interprets Hamilton's record differently
"It doesn’t mean anything to me, really," said Norris. "He’s in a car which should win every race, basically.
I think Lando later retracted that and apologised ?Even Lando Norris interprets Hamilton's record differently
"It doesn’t mean anything to me, really," said Norris. "He’s in a car which should win every race, basically.
'Whatevaaaaaaaar. He, like, always has the best car and everything. It's like, so unfair.'
paulguitar said:
p1stonhead said:
Exige77 said:
Bo_apex said:
Yes we all have different interpretations.
Even Lando Norris interprets Hamilton's record differently
"It doesn’t mean anything to me, really," said Norris. "He’s in a car which should win every race, basically.
I think Lando later retracted that and apologised ?Even Lando Norris interprets Hamilton's record differently
"It doesn’t mean anything to me, really," said Norris. "He’s in a car which should win every race, basically.
'Whatevaaaaaaaar. He, like, always has the best car and everything. It's like, so unfair.'
I heard Fangio put a spell on him, “one day you will fall down your own lift shaft”
Those where the days
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