Lewis Hamilton G.O.A.T. ?

Lewis Hamilton G.O.A.T. ?

Author
Discussion

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
mat205125 said:
I hope that we get to see Hamilton in a mercedes that's on the same performance planet as the rest of the grid, to see him tested in a situation that gives him a chance to shine like Senna did in Monaco 84 or Donnington 93
He doesn't really require a 'chance to shine'. There are whole seasons available where Hamilton had identical equipment, take a look at GP2 in 2006, and, perhaps F3 Euroseries in 2005, where, in equal machinery, Hamilton won 16 of the 20 races. (He was DSQ from one on a technicality).

If it is only F1 that is of interest, there is plenty of that where Hamilton has not had a car advantage. For much of 2018 and 2019, for example, leading even Luca Di Montezemolo to say that he thought Lewis would have been champion in the Ferrari.


Another notable stat, in the past 30 years, only 3 drivers have won the world championship in a car that didn’t win the constructors championship;
Schuee in 94, Because we lost Senna.
Mika in 99 Because Schuee broke his leg and was out for half of the season.
Lewis in 08










Catatafish

1,361 posts

144 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
Wet qually and races tend to nullify the car advantage. Wasn't there one recently where HAM absolutely destroyed BOT?

yes just checked - 1.4 sec faster than Bottas. HAM must have been really really really really 'lucky' at the Styrian GP (and the other wet events where opponents were beaten)

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
Catatafish said:
Wet qually and races tend to nullify the car advantage. Wasn't there one recently where HAM absolutely destroyed BOT?

yes just checked - 1.4 sec faster than Bottas. HAM must have been really really really really 'lucky' at the Styrian GP (and the other wet events where opponents were beaten)
There was a period of something like 5 YEARS where Hamilton did not lose a rain-affected race. Then you've got races like 2008 Silverstone, where he won by well over a full minute, having started in P4.






C350Akra

11,553 posts

279 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.

Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.

Bo_apex

2,506 posts

217 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
C350Akra said:
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.

Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
Agenda ?

Listen carefully to Niki.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SZTJzIRQM




MarkwG

4,809 posts

188 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
Bo_apex said:
C350Akra said:
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.

Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
Agenda ?

Listen carefully to Niki.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SZTJzIRQM
We did - "it's more Lewis's fault, than Nico's fault" - shared culpability, with greater weight on Lewis. He didn't say "it was all Lewis's fault", which he would have, had he thought it the case. He was also clear on saying they collided, not "one took the other out".

heebeegeetee

28,590 posts

247 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
mat205125 said:
I hope that we get to see Hamilton in a mercedes that's on the same performance planet as the rest of the grid, to see him tested in a situation that gives him a chance to shine like Senna did in Monaco 84 or Donnington 93
As others have said, I think that any doubt or criticism you may have of Hamilton is addressed in his pre F1 career. You want to see him in equal equipment? He’s done that, and won. Want to see him without funding even? He did that, and won, in his early karting career.

Want even, to see him win in cars he’s not even sat in? He did that, with radio controlled model cars, at age of 7, and won.

And he’s got three Blue Peter badges.

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
heebeegeetee said:
And he’s got three Blue Peter badges.
I think that pretty much closes the case. smile

Piginapoke

4,736 posts

184 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
LH is clearly a top drawer F1 driver, but he's flattered by the technical regs, mercedes' budget and management and lack of any effective competition. He is not the GOAT- getting beaten by Rosberg and Button (two good but not great drivers) speaks to that.

When I look at Lauda, Senna, Prost and Schumacher, they managed to build entire teams around themselves (teams that were often failing until they arrived) in order to win. Senna, in particular, could have done whatever he wanted in life and succeeded- he just chose F1 racing to make his mark. LH however lacks depth, his success largely built on the back of Mercedes dollars, the same dollars which have harmed F1 and have made it unbelievably dull.

TLDR; he's good, not great and is a bit dim compared to the top 5% of drivers.


Teddy Lop

8,290 posts

66 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
paulguitar said:
There was a period of something like 5 YEARS where Hamilton did not lose a rain-affected race. Then you've got races like 2008 Silverstone, where he won by well over a full minute, having started in P4.
was anyone else watching something recently probably on sky when he was talking about that, and massa came up and he was like ".... massa... <just the right amount of pause and cheeky glint in his eye> ... He didn't like driving that car in the wet"

All class, cracked me up

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Piginapoke said:
getting beaten by Rosberg and Button (two good but not great drivers) speaks to that.
Hamilton beat Button 2/1 and Rosberg 3/1

Piginapoke said:
When I look at Lauda, Senna, Prost and Schumacher, they managed to build entire teams around themselves (teams that were often failing until they arrived) in order to win.
Mercedes was not competitive prior to Hamilton being in the team.

Piginapoke said:
Senna, in particular, could have done whatever he wanted in life and succeeded- he just chose F1 racing to make his mark. LH however lacks depth, his success largely built on the back of Mercedes dollars, the same dollars which have harmed F1 and have made it unbelievably dull.
Senna, and Schumacher, were both brilliant, but significantly flawed. Hamilton has had to resort to no on track (or off track) shenanigans in order to achieve even more.
Piginapoke said:
TLDR; he's good, not great and is a bit dim compared to the top 5% of drivers.
Nonsense, and showing your true colours with that. scratchchin

Bo_apex

2,506 posts

217 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
C350Akra said:
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.

Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
Agenda ?

Listen carefully to Niki.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SZTJzIRQM
We did - "it's more Lewis's fault, than Nico's fault" - shared culpability, with greater weight on Lewis. He didn't say "it was all Lewis's fault", which he would have, had he thought it the case. He was also clear on saying they collided, not "one took the other out".
Hamilton asked Lauda "Why do you criticize me ?"

Either over sensitive or unaware of his mistake.



MarkwG

4,809 posts

188 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Bo_apex said:
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
C350Akra said:
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.

Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
Agenda ?

Listen carefully to Niki.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SZTJzIRQM
We did - "it's more Lewis's fault, than Nico's fault" - shared culpability, with greater weight on Lewis. He didn't say "it was all Lewis's fault", which he would have, had he thought it the case. He was also clear on saying they collided, not "one took the other out".
Hamilton asked Lauda "Why do you criticize me ?"

Either over sensitive or unaware of his mistake.
Or wanted to understand the others point of view to learn from it. Sensible policy to me.

Bo_apex

2,506 posts

217 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
C350Akra said:
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.

Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
Agenda ?

Listen carefully to Niki.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SZTJzIRQM
We did - "it's more Lewis's fault, than Nico's fault" - shared culpability, with greater weight on Lewis. He didn't say "it was all Lewis's fault", which he would have, had he thought it the case. He was also clear on saying they collided, not "one took the other out".
Hamilton asked Lauda "Why do you criticize me ?"

Either over sensitive or unaware of his mistake.
Or wanted to understand the others point of view to learn from it. Sensible policy to me.
The way in which Lauda recites it, Lewis was coming across as being defensive.







MarkwG

4,809 posts

188 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Bo_apex said:
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
C350Akra said:
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.

Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
Agenda ?

Listen carefully to Niki.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SZTJzIRQM
We did - "it's more Lewis's fault, than Nico's fault" - shared culpability, with greater weight on Lewis. He didn't say "it was all Lewis's fault", which he would have, had he thought it the case. He was also clear on saying they collided, not "one took the other out".
Hamilton asked Lauda "Why do you criticize me ?"

Either over sensitive or unaware of his mistake.
Or wanted to understand the others point of view to learn from it. Sensible policy to me.
The way in which Lauda recites it, Lewis was coming across as being defensive.
That's your interpretation: also could just be asking the question.

Bo_apex

2,506 posts

217 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
MarkwG said:
Bo_apex said:
C350Akra said:
Bo_apex said:
Lauda blamed Hamilton for taking out Rosberg in Barcelona.
No, he did not!, he said it was both of them. What he did say was Hamilton should not have gone for the inside line, the outside line would have been a better option.

Please stop bending the facts to suit your biased agenda.
Agenda ?

Listen carefully to Niki.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6SZTJzIRQM
We did - "it's more Lewis's fault, than Nico's fault" - shared culpability, with greater weight on Lewis. He didn't say "it was all Lewis's fault", which he would have, had he thought it the case. He was also clear on saying they collided, not "one took the other out".
Hamilton asked Lauda "Why do you criticize me ?"

Either over sensitive or unaware of his mistake.
Or wanted to understand the others point of view to learn from it. Sensible policy to me.
The way in which Lauda recites it, Lewis was coming across as being defensive.
That's your interpretation: also could just be asking the question.
Yes we all have different interpretations.
Even Lando Norris interprets Hamilton's record differently

"It doesn’t mean anything to me, really," said Norris. "He’s in a car which should win every race, basically.

Exige77

6,518 posts

190 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Bo_apex said:
Yes we all have different interpretations.
Even Lando Norris interprets Hamilton's record differently

"It doesn’t mean anything to me, really," said Norris. "He’s in a car which should win every race, basically.
I think Lando later retracted that and apologised ?

p1stonhead

25,489 posts

166 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
Bo_apex said:
Yes we all have different interpretations.
Even Lando Norris interprets Hamilton's record differently

"It doesn’t mean anything to me, really," said Norris. "He’s in a car which should win every race, basically.
I think Lando later retracted that and apologised ?
He did. Seems jealousy got the better of him for a few minutes.

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
p1stonhead said:
Exige77 said:
Bo_apex said:
Yes we all have different interpretations.
Even Lando Norris interprets Hamilton's record differently

"It doesn’t mean anything to me, really," said Norris. "He’s in a car which should win every race, basically.
I think Lando later retracted that and apologised ?
He did. Seems jealousy got the better of him for a few minutes.
Reminds me of when Moss was asked to give his reaction to Fangio winning his 5th driver's title in 1957.

'Whatevaaaaaaaar. He, like, always has the best car and everything. It's like, so unfair.'






Exige77

6,518 posts

190 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
paulguitar said:
p1stonhead said:
Exige77 said:
Bo_apex said:
Yes we all have different interpretations.
Even Lando Norris interprets Hamilton's record differently

"It doesn’t mean anything to me, really," said Norris. "He’s in a car which should win every race, basically.
I think Lando later retracted that and apologised ?
He did. Seems jealousy got the better of him for a few minutes.
Reminds me of when Moss was asked to give his reaction to Fangio winning his 5th driver's title in 1957.

'Whatevaaaaaaaar. He, like, always has the best car and everything. It's like, so unfair.'
I remember that well !!

I heard Fangio put a spell on him, “one day you will fall down your own lift shaft”

Those where the days smile