Sunday Services and the future, your thoughts please

Sunday Services and the future, your thoughts please

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Discussion

Garlick

Original Poster:

40,601 posts

239 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
Morning all

In the spirit of open thinking I wanted to get your opinion on a few things, who better to ask how we improve than the people who turn up to the events.

It's clear the Sunday Service meets are now more popular than ever and with that increased popularity comes increased risk and more logistical issues. To keep these meets attractive to land owners, and safe to attend for PHers, I'd like to make some changes moving forwards, no firm plans at the moment but here are some of my thoughts

  • Accountability
We fully expect some folk won't be able to turn up on the day due to unforeseen family and work commitments, we can't do a lot about that, but what we need to stop is those that sign up as soon as we announce an event then forget to take their name off the list. At Goodwood we had 800 sign up and 450 arrive on the day (as of 11.30AM) as an example.

How would people feel about an electronic checking off system at the gate, one no show means you get an email from us, two is a warning and three is an ban from signing up for the rest of the year (as an example)

  • Accountability - part two
We are seeing more bad driving at these events. A brisk departure is fine, intentionally leaving half of your tyres on our hosts tarmac is less so...much less. It's embarrassing for us to have to explain away.

We could impose a similar structure to the above where reg numbers are needed at sign up (which can be changed right up to the night before) and if you are seen to be an idiot we'll be able to contact you directly to discuss. Would that work? Would it be welcomed?

  • Sunday Service Charity
Over the course of a year we see approximately 6-8,000 cars at these meets (well, if they all turn up anyway!) how would you feel about making a donation to a chosen annual charity (an amount of your choice) as you arrive? We could raise a lot for a good cause (raising our profile as nice people) and removing the free element may encourage more responsibility from attendees.

Would you be willing to make a donation?

  • Timing
More and more we see early arrivals, again it's to be expected as many leave in good time to get to us and empty roads mean you arrive earlier than planned. Such is life, no big deal.

However, at Goodwood we allowed 190 cars in before 09.00 as we had to keep the road outside clear despite the event not being officially open. It's a bit like turning up to your friends dinner party just as they start the preparation...and it happens at every meet we arrange.

What could we do to tighten up the arrival time? We always say 09.00, and expect a few early arrivals, but 100+ cars starts to be an issue!





To be clear, the events will continue and we LOVE hosting them! But, times have changed since we paid and displayed at Virginia Waters and we need to change logistics accordingly.

Your thoughts, as those who make them happen, are welcome smile




jeremyc

23,335 posts

283 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
Full support from me for the accountability measures. thumbup

Providing the charity donation is voluntary, then I'm fine with it. Many people choose how they wish to support charities (in many other ways) so dictating a mandatory donation doesn't fit well with the charitable nature for me.

As to timing, then isn't a solution to accept that you need to start the event earlier? Perhaps assume that folks will arrive from 7:30am onwards, and leave correspondingly earlier (11:30 finish?). In my experience a majority have left SS venues by 11:30-12:00 anyway. Part of the attraction for me is the excuse to get out on empty Sunday morning roads - sadly with benefit is all but gone after 8:30am or so.

Shaw Tarse

31,543 posts

202 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
Garlick said:
Morning all

In the spirit of open thinking I wanted to get your opinion on a few things, who better to ask how we improve than the people who turn up to the events.

It's clear the Sunday Service meets are now more popular than ever and with that increased popularity comes increased risk and more logistical issues. To keep these meets attractive to land owners, and safe to attend for PHers, I'd like to make some changes moving forwards, no firm plans at the moment but here are some of my thoughts

  • Accountability
We fully expect some folk won't be able to turn up on the day due to unforeseen family and work commitments, we can't do a lot about that, but what we need to stop is those that sign up as soon as we announce an event then forget to take their name off the list. At Goodwood we had 800 sign up and 450 arrive on the day (as of 11.30AM) as an example.

How would people feel about an electronic checking off system at the gate, one no show means you get an email from us, two is a warning and three is an ban from signing up for the rest of the year (as an example)
Sounds reasonable, how long before Sunday do we need to give notice we aren't going to show?
Garlick said:
  • Accountability - part two
We are seeing more bad driving at these events. A brisk departure is fine, intentionally leaving half or your tyres on our hosts tarmac is less so...much less. It's embarrassing for us to have to explain away.

We could impose a similar structure to the above where reg numbers are needed at sign up (which can be changed right up to the night before) and if you are seen to be an idiot we'll be able to contact you directly to discuss. Would that work? Would it be welcomed?
yes (do people with camera/phones iPads encourage this?
  • Sunday Service Charity
Over the course of a year we see approximately 6-8,000 cars at these meets (well, if they all turn up anyway!) how would you feel about making a donation to a chosen annual charity (an amount of your choice) as you arrive? We could raise a lot for a good cause (raising our profile as nice people) and removing the free element may encourage more responsibility from attendees.

Would you be willing to make a donation?

  • Timing
More and more we see early arrivals, again it's to be expected as many leave in good time to get to us and empty roads mean you arrive earlier than planned. Such is life, no big deal.

However, at Goodwood we allowed 190 cars in before 09.00 as we had to keep the road outside clear despite the event not being officially open. It's a bit like turning up to your friends dinner party just as they start the preparation...and it happens at every meet we arrange.

What could we do to tighten up the arrival time? We always say 09.00, and expect a few early arrivals, but 100+ cars starts to be an issue!





To be clear, the events will continue and we LOVE hosting them! But, times have changed since we paid and displayed at Virginia Waters and we need to change logistics accordingly.

Your thoughts, as those who make them happen, are welcome smile

Garlick

Original Poster:

40,601 posts

239 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
I'm going to try and let this run rather than answer individually, will be easier overall.

However, a few quick notes

  • Charity will be chosen together (poll) and donation is your choice - throw in loose change, a wedge of notes or nothing
  • Taking your name from the list will be acceptable up to 24 hours ahead of the event (as a suggestion) Emergencies happen so we can expect some will fall outside of that but as we'll email you to mention it you'll have a chance to tell us.
  • Opening earlier isn't likely to be possible. The manufacturers already provide volunteer staff who agree to start setting up at 07.00 (in most cases) for an 09.00 start. To expect them (and to some extent my team who do it very regularly) to arrive at 05.00 to open at 07.30 might be a step too far for a free event!

Nero44

190 posts

145 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
This was my first Sunday Service and thoroughy enjoyed - so firstly thank you for organising and see you at the next one.

Accountability - both parts - could perhaps be tied in with the charitable donations point. Although it's more of a pain on signup, what about taking card details for a £15 'deposit' from all those who sign up together with full car details. Can then cancel anytime up to 24 hours before event after which time if you don't turn up your deposit is claimed and given to charity? The same could be done for all those who drive like idiots at the event.

With both aspects of accountability there could be a 3 strikes and then out/banned aspect as well. As for contacting people directly to discuss 'indescretions' it will be welcomed by all who don't do anything to jeapodise the events and ignored by those who do. Direct contact should be made just to tell them they are on a warning.

A couple of morons can't stop these clearly much loved events from continuing to flourish.

As to Charity donations at the events, I am sure that it would be welcomed by most. However I would do it on the way out - more people will have change from buying food/drink etc and will not hold up people coming into the event (finding change/wallet etc).

Timing wise, I am not sure what you can do other than start earlier? Or just refuse people entry before the opening time and tell them they have to move on and then come back so as not to block roads. If people are allowed in before start time then more will do this next time! But not sure there is a magic answer to this one....

Just my two cents, and once again thank you for organising






F355GTS

3,721 posts

254 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
More than happy with 1,2 and 3 Paul. I have often added my name but have always taken it off if subsequently not attending.

Timings a tough one, Goodwood have the same problem with their Breakfast clubs, caused by the keen wanting to get in before the madness, I've done it myself many times, on occasion they've put people in an outside car park to relieve the congestion, obviously other venues don;t have this luxury, I suspect education is the only way.


joema

2,644 posts

178 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
I thought it was a good turn out yesterday despite the weather but disapointed that a lot didnt turn up and thus ruining the chances of folk who genuinely wanted to go who didnt make it onto the list.

So I'd agree with the accountability measures.

Its fun making noise but places like Goodwood we have to respect their rules as it jeopardises next time. Perhaps we shouldnt let people through the tunnel.

Happy to have the opportunity to make a donation.

Timing is fine. Have it open too early and people will leave earlier. A lot of cars had gone by 10am which is a real shame. Premsumably if some arrive at 8 the event would be over by 10am.

ps. Silverstone earlier in the year was great. The opportunity to combine track time with sunday service was genius and added something else to watch/do. Probably kept people there for longer too.

So what i'm hinting at is can we have more track/ss combined days please?

mikeyscott

1,200 posts

207 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
Garlick said:
Morning all



  • Accountability
We fully expect some folk won't be able to turn up on the day due to unforeseen family and work commitments, we can't do a lot about that, but what we need to stop is those that sign up as soon as we announce an event then forget to take their name off the list. At Goodwood we had 800 sign up and 450 arrive on the day (as of 11.30AM) as an example.

How would people feel about an electronic checking off system at the gate, one no show means you get an email from us, two is a warning and three is an ban from signing up for the rest of the year (as an example)

  • Accountability - part two
We are seeing more bad driving at these events. A brisk departure is fine, intentionally leaving half of your tyres on our hosts tarmac is less so...much less. It's embarrassing for us to have to explain away.

We could impose a similar structure to the above where reg numbers are needed at sign up (which can be changed right up to the night before) and if you are seen to be an idiot we'll be able to contact you directly to discuss. Would that work? Would it be welcomed?

  • Sunday Service Charity
Over the course of a year we see approximately 6-8,000 cars at these meets (well, if they all turn up anyway!) how would you feel about making a donation to a chosen annual charity (an amount of your choice) as you arrive? We could raise a lot for a good cause (raising our profile as nice people) and removing the free element may encourage more responsibility from attendees.

Would you be willing to make a donation?

  • Timing
More and more we see early arrivals, again it's to be expected as many leave in good time to get to us and empty roads mean you arrive earlier than planned. Such is life, no big deal.

However, at Goodwood we allowed 190 cars in before 09.00 as we had to keep the road outside clear despite the event not being officially open. It's a bit like turning up to your friends dinner party just as they start the preparation...and it happens at every meet we arrange.

What could we do to tighten up the arrival time? We always say 09.00, and expect a few early arrivals, but 100+ cars starts to be an issue!





To be clear, the events will continue and we LOVE hosting them! But, times have changed since we paid and displayed at Virginia Waters and we need to change logistics accordingly.

Your thoughts, as those who make them happen, are welcome smile
Happy with all the above points:

Accountability - part two - I thought some of the driving leaving Goodwood yesterday was really bad and TBH was a minor reason why we didn't leave then as I didn't fancy giving some of these people a few choice words. To add to it, it was wet greasy and it's not just PistonHeads people on the roads.

At one stage I did think I was at Hedge End McDonalds on a Saturday night watching a number of hot hatches laying down the rubber, ironically some of the really nice kit just left. I followed a 61 white M3 on the way home along the A27, perfectly civilised.

On the way in to Goodwood just off the A27 there were a number of police vehicles sat on the bridges, so an expectation of stupidity..

Also the ability to purchase PistonHeads stickers, mugs etc. would be good.

Edited by mikeyscott on Monday 16th December 14:06

Rennywuk

59 posts

131 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
I'm new to PH and attended three Sunday Services this year. I absolutely loved them and take my hat off to you for organsing them.

I agree with all of your suggestions and would like to add one; selling merchandise at the event would be really good. Buying something as simple as a sticker on line can be a little off putting when the cost of postage is almost as much as the item being bought.

Merry Christmas


atl

76 posts

230 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
Totally agree with all the accountability measures.

Charitable donations are a good idea - if optional.

On the issue of timing the only way to get round this is to be very explicit in the organising info that people who arrive early will not be admitted until the advertised opening time.

Tumbler

1,432 posts

165 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
Accountability is an excellent idea, maybe you need to look at asking people to confirm their current email when they sign up?

Charitable donation another excellent idea, my thoughts would be a different charity for each one, maybe one local to the area?

I'm not sure how you deal with poor standards of driving, it concerns me, I've dropped out of convoys before now due to it, I understand some people will just consider their actions as showboating.

John D.

17,701 posts

208 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
jeremyc said:
Full support from me for the accountability measures. thumbup

Providing the charity donation is voluntary, then I'm fine with it. Many people choose how they wish to support charities (in many other ways) so dictating a mandatory donation doesn't fit well with the charitable nature for me.

As to timing, then isn't a solution to accept that you need to start the event earlier? Perhaps assume that folks will arrive from 7:30am onwards, and leave correspondingly earlier (11:30 finish?). In my experience a majority have left SS venues by 11:30-12:00 anyway. Part of the attraction for me is the excuse to get out on empty Sunday morning roads - sadly with benefit is all but gone after 8:30am or so.
Second all of that.

Rochester TVR

3,313 posts

205 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
Accountability is a very good idea.

Charity: How about a standard £5 entry to all future Sunday Services. Of which 100% goes towards a charity chosen by the venue. That way venues are indirectly getting something back in return for all their hard work and goodwill of being host.

Edited by Rochester TVR on Monday 16th December 13:16

Skaffen

514 posts

207 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
The first accountability part is a great idea.

On the second accountability part I'd be ok with that (I presume you'd not be displaying the registrations to all and sundry). I don't know if there was anyone who'd rather you didn't hold that sort of information in your electronic database though (not because they'd behave like a dick, but more because it requires a bit more trust in your security to keep that information private). If you did bring it in I'd suggest still allowing people to turn up in a car with a different registration on the day (to cover the scenario of having a car not start, especially on a cold morning) - just have room on your checklists to make a note and ask them for an explanation (and you can then update the database afterwards) - there should be so few it shouldn't be too arduous.

I'd be willing to make a small donation. If you made it mandatory you'd want to keep the amount entirely discretionary or make it small enough so it wouldn't deter anyone. I don't think that it would change the responsibility aspect though. I don't know that you'd need to make it mandatory to get a decent amount, but if you do have donation buckets that are option make sure they're very visible - I've gone to a couple of events before with donation buckets (optional donations) on the way in and completely forgotten about them and missed seeing them.

With the timing - perhaps tie that in with the accountability. Just remind people they cannot turn up before the start time (parking within sight of the entrance counts too) and if they do it gets flagged on the accountability system. Perhaps it shouldn't count on the same 3 strikes as the no-show though - so one early arrival means an email, two means a warning, three is a ban. People travelling longer distances may be more likely to turn up early if they allow extra time in case of traffic (to avoid getting there late), but I guess they have the option of parking up at a service station or car park nearish to the event if they've made good time (often on a Sunday morning you can make far far better time than the satnav estimates as the roads are quiet, so if it's not a journey you're familiar with you can find yourself at the destination unexpectedly early).


HoHoHo

14,980 posts

249 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
I think a number of valid and interesting discussion points however they can't be discussed on the net, they're too complex and I'm not sure what you'll ultimately achieve on a thread?

How about suggesting we start a group of PH enthusiasts who meet on a regular basis to discuss such items.

Unfortunately those who can be bothered in life often have to make decisions for those who can't.

I'd be up for a seat on the board by the way wink

djtex

446 posts

197 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
I give the suggestions my full support. smile

viper blue

166 posts

163 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
1. Like the idea of bar coding each person in on arrival. Why not set up an automatic barcode membership number for all forum folks. Each person can print off their barcode membership and piston head folks can barcode read the in on arrival. That covers the accountability and don't turn up early points.
2. PH merchandise - great idea.
3. Charity donations, no problems but making it voluntary on the gate is right in my view.
4. 3 strikes and your out is fine for no shows.
5. Would like it earlier even if 8am as the roads are relatively empty, but the organisers have to take the lead as hosts.
6. The best SS are when there is a tour or viewing around a factory, or historic collection etc. the Rolls Royce and Aston Martin days were top notch for me.
7. As I vary the car I bring depending of SORN and weather, I like having the flexibility of not specifying vehicle registrations. The cold of winter in my Caterham just doesn't cut it for me.
8. Is there any way more of PH volunteers can be asked for to help the host organisers at these events; under their supervision so to speak.
9. Could we consider a wider spectrum of SS venues? How would hosts & members feel about say, mainstream manufacturers, race tracks, historic collections (ie brooklands etc), museums etc etc could go off vehicle but maybe that's too far.
10. Would a morning 'event' work to keep folks through the mid morning eg a talk from a motoring celeb, or an event like those offered at Silverstone Porsche days.
11. Basically, the PH SS are really appreciated by all so is there anything from the SS hosts that we could consider as PH members.

I will put my thinking cap on and come back with a few more.

Rob

eybic

9,212 posts

173 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
viper blue said:
1. Like the idea of bar coding each person in on arrival. Why not set up an automatic barcode membership number for all forum folks. Each person can print off their barcode membership and piston head folks can barcode read the in on arrival. That covers the accountability and don't turn up early points.
2. PH merchandise - great idea.
3. Charity donations, no problems but making it voluntary on the gate is right in my view.
4. 3 strikes and your out is fine for no shows.
5. Would like it earlier even if 8am as the roads are relatively empty, but the organisers have to take the lead as hosts.
6. The best SS are when there is a tour or viewing around a factory, or historic collection etc. the Rolls Royce and Aston Martin days were top notch for me.
7. As I vary the car I bring depending of SORN and weather, I like having the flexibility of not specifying vehicle registrations. The cold of winter in my Caterham just doesn't cut it for me.
8. Is there any way more of PH volunteers can be asked for to help the host organisers at these events; under their supervision so to speak.
9. Could we consider a wider spectrum of SS venues? How would hosts & members feel about say, mainstream manufacturers, race tracks, historic collections (ie brooklands etc), museums etc etc could go off vehicle but maybe that's too far.
10. Would a morning 'event' work to keep folks through the mid morning eg a talk from a motoring celeb, or an event like those offered at Silverstone Porsche days.
11. Basically, the PH SS are really appreciated by all so is there anything from the SS hosts that we could consider as PH members.

I will put my thinking cap on and come back with a few more.

Rob
Thanks for your points, please keep them coming.

My thoughts on a couple of the points you raised Rob:

2. To help keep costs down, a lot of merchandise is printed to order rather than masses of stock being held so we might have issues with people not buying the stuff that we've had printed/ made.

5. An earlier start would mean them getting their staff there pre 0700 on a Sunday which they may struggle with, don't forget they don't charge for us descending en mass.

8. We normally do ok when we ask you guys to help us.

9. We have tried mainstream manufacturers like Vauxhall for example but we really struggle to get a couple of hundred cars and with them going to all the effort and costs of assembling their heritage fleets, laying on entertainment etc. we end up feeling bad.

Those are my thoughts, I'm not trying to be negative and we will seriously look at everyone's contribution to this thread.

Nathan

rasto

2,188 posts

236 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
Agree with those suggestions.

Not sure how you can solve the early arrivals problem, if people plan an 'interesting' route to the destination then it inevitably means an early start to make the best of empty roads.

Charity donations would be a great way to ensure attendance and would be a great bit of PR. Given the number of SS you run could lead to some fairly sizeable donations smile

House86

601 posts

152 months

Monday 16th December 2013
quotequote all
Agree with the three strikes for reckless driving and a no shows.

I had to drop out of Goodwood this time as something came up but took my name of Friday Eve so hopefully someone got in instead, think it should be 24 or 48H notice to take name off list at the latest otherwise get a strike.

Charity bucket at the gate would work well instead of a set amount, or offer a tour or talk for a charity donation like at Rolls Royce if the venue can.

Think selling Merchandise at the events would work well, t-shirts & stickers.