Discussion
Trundling along lane 2 of the M25 last night in a line of traffic slowly overhauling lane 1. Up ahead in lane 1 was a Mercedes E matching the speed of the traffic in front but leaving a big gap. Next to me and behind the Merc was a lorry, about as big as non artics come and ridiculously close behind the Merc, certainly less than a car length at 50 ish. Suddenly the Merc braked very hard but very briefly then accelerated, I suspect he was trying to flash his brake lights and misjudged it.
The truck driver jammed on brakes and horn, somehow missed the Mercedes by what must have been inches. But then dropped back to a reasonable distance. I wasn’t best pleased because the lorry driver could easily have swerved into me or I could have been caught up in the carnage if they’d collided, but it has to be admitted this risky move did work, the lorry did drop back.
The moral seems to be, trying to flash brake lights can be just as risky as deliberate brake checking.
The truck driver jammed on brakes and horn, somehow missed the Mercedes by what must have been inches. But then dropped back to a reasonable distance. I wasn’t best pleased because the lorry driver could easily have swerved into me or I could have been caught up in the carnage if they’d collided, but it has to be admitted this risky move did work, the lorry did drop back.
The moral seems to be, trying to flash brake lights can be just as risky as deliberate brake checking.
Another other moral is "don't tailgate because (amongst other things) it makes idiots do stupid things". 
I suppose it's possible that his automated braking system thing kicked in - there's always a few stories around of them deciding that a car in the adjacent lane is actually in the way and too close and consequently jamming on the brakes.
I suppose it's possible that his automated braking system thing kicked in - there's always a few stories around of them deciding that a car in the adjacent lane is actually in the way and too close and consequently jamming on the brakes.
Dr Jekyll said:
Trundling along lane 2 of the M25 last night in a line of traffic slowly overhauling lane 1. Up ahead in lane 1 was a Mercedes E matching the speed of the traffic in front but leaving a big gap. Next to me and behind the Merc was a lorry, about as big as non artics come and ridiculously close behind the Merc, certainly less than a car length at 50 ish. Suddenly the Merc braked very hard but very briefly then accelerated, I suspect he was trying to flash his brake lights and misjudged it.
The truck driver jammed on brakes and horn, somehow missed the Mercedes by what must have been inches. But then dropped back to a reasonable distance. I wasn’t best pleased because the lorry driver could easily have swerved into me or I could have been caught up in the carnage if they’d collided, but it has to be admitted this risky move did work, the lorry did drop back.
The moral seems to be, trying to flash brake lights can be just as risky as deliberate brake checking.
I think it serves the lorry drivers right for tail gating!!The truck driver jammed on brakes and horn, somehow missed the Mercedes by what must have been inches. But then dropped back to a reasonable distance. I wasn’t best pleased because the lorry driver could easily have swerved into me or I could have been caught up in the carnage if they’d collided, but it has to be admitted this risky move did work, the lorry did drop back.
The moral seems to be, trying to flash brake lights can be just as risky as deliberate brake checking.
Many lorryists do it, it's stupid!
Rather than a direct brake check, I find a good way to cultivate a gap with following traffic is to drive like you're pissed.
Gently go from side to side; perhaps throw in some more dramatic swerves. Add to that some gentle, un needed acceleration and braking.
Doesn't work on traffic police!
Gently go from side to side; perhaps throw in some more dramatic swerves. Add to that some gentle, un needed acceleration and braking.
Doesn't work on traffic police!
xjay1337 said:
I think it serves the lorry drivers right for tail gating!!
Many lorryists do it, it's stupid!
Don't say that! They'll tell you they're the "Knights of the Road" and are professional drivers and can do no wrong! Just like the lorry driver I saw stopping anyone proceeding up lane 2 to a merge point along the A36 over the bank holiday...Many lorryists do it, it's stupid!
ETA: I find that the best way to deal with a tailgater is to decide my headlights and windscreen are dirty and give them a good wash. Or open the window and wave my arm at them to back off.
My thinking is, if someone is consistently too close, ensure that you end up behind them, or otherwise somewhere other than in front.
If in an overtaking lane, move over and let them past, if on a single lane road perhaps contrive a way to get them past.
Thing is you can try "teaching them a lesson", they arent there to learn and possibly cant, possibly just in a hurry or aggressive, don't antagonise just get them from where they are a threat/danger to you.
Brake testing is the work of petulant f
kwitts who shouldn't have license, like the OP said it could have been him that copped for the truck, how many times has someone in their own little pissing content with that arse in the 3 series caused accidents, near misses or just distress.
You dont need to interact with aholes, be invisible and always try and think whether it is me being a dick, the other guy or a combination.
People will take liberties, try not to escalate it as potentially it goes from an annoyance at the time to months of agro, court, insurance, quotes, higher premiums, points or a nice scratch down the side of your car when it gets spotted in a car park.
I dont always practice what I preach but am getting better at not reacting.
If in an overtaking lane, move over and let them past, if on a single lane road perhaps contrive a way to get them past.
Thing is you can try "teaching them a lesson", they arent there to learn and possibly cant, possibly just in a hurry or aggressive, don't antagonise just get them from where they are a threat/danger to you.
Brake testing is the work of petulant f
kwitts who shouldn't have license, like the OP said it could have been him that copped for the truck, how many times has someone in their own little pissing content with that arse in the 3 series caused accidents, near misses or just distress.You dont need to interact with a
holes, be invisible and always try and think whether it is me being a dick, the other guy or a combination. People will take liberties, try not to escalate it as potentially it goes from an annoyance at the time to months of agro, court, insurance, quotes, higher premiums, points or a nice scratch down the side of your car when it gets spotted in a car park.
I dont always practice what I preach but am getting better at not reacting.
HGV drivers do not want to slow down on a motorway. They are always aiming to not have to ease off the accelerator or worse brake as it takes them along time to get their HGV moving again.
Hence they always tailgate because their only concern is to maintain their speed.
Brake checking is idiotic as too is tailgating.
People tailgating in normal vehicles are worse.
Hence they always tailgate because their only concern is to maintain their speed.
Brake checking is idiotic as too is tailgating.
People tailgating in normal vehicles are worse.
Edited by Audemars on Thursday 25th April 11:56
Audemars said:
HGV drivers do not want to slow down on a motorway. They are always aiming to not have to ease off the accelerator or worse brake as it takes them along time to get their HGV moving again.
Hence they always tailgate because their only concern is to maintain their speed.
But it's far easier to keep to a relatively constant speed by maintaining a gap which you can use as a buffer. Yes they will inevitably close up as traffic slows but if they're driving for optimal economy/minimal need for acceleration they should immediately start opening a gap again if they find themselves close to the vehicle in front. Hence they always tailgate because their only concern is to maintain their speed.
From my experience of driving low cars, I think people simply tend to tailgate when they can easily see over the vehicle in front of them.
Dr Jekyll said:
TNext to me and behind the Merc was a lorry, about as big as non artics come .
as a an aside to the brake testing chat. I never ever sit next to a lorry. leave you open to the a swerve etc. happy to take my chances with a car but not with 7.5 + tonnes. Hang back and then when there is space scoot past no drama.
kambites said:
But it's far easier to keep to a relatively constant speed by maintaining a gap which you can use as a buffer. Yes they will inevitably close up as traffic slows but if they're driving for optimal economy/minimal need for acceleration they should immediately start opening a gap again if they find themselves close to the vehicle in front.
From my experience of driving low cars, I think people simply tend to tailgate when they can easily see over the vehicle in front of them.
Fair point, but most hgv are not being driven for optimal economy (even though thats what the company/fleet manager wants). More that they are driving to deadlines. They often have to arrive within 15 minute timeslots at warehouses. If later than their timeslot they can be kept for hours until unloaded/loaded. Often the only way to achieve these timeslots is to drive to the speedlimiter all the way. From my experience of driving low cars, I think people simply tend to tailgate when they can easily see over the vehicle in front of them.
I am not saying they are correct or not at fault, but you often have to understand the cause, not just the symptoms.
Brake testing is the domain of idiots only. If you dont like the vehicle behind you, get out the way, press on or let it pass. Too many people think that they own the road and have no care or interest for other road users. Whether you like lorries, bmw's, chavvy corsas or not, they all have an equal right (subject to meeting the legal requirements), to using the road. A bit more acceptance of others being allowed on the road would benefit the road system and its users in general. Think middle lane and outside lane hoggers. Very rare you can accuse anybody on the inside lane (the 1 that should be used the most by most people, most of the time remember), of hogging.
Coilspring said:
Fair point, but most hgv are not being driven for optimal economy (even though thats what the company/fleet manager wants). More that they are driving to deadlines. They often have to arrive within 15 minute timeslots at warehouses. If later than their timeslot they can be kept for hours until unloaded/loaded. Often the only way to achieve these timeslots is to drive to the speedlimiter all the way.
And the relevance to tailgating is what?On one occasion, many, many years ago, I thought I'd tap the brake pedal with my left foot whilst prodding the accelerator a little to 'discourage' a tailgater. The logic was that the brake lights would briefly flash, without any deceleration.
What I hadn't realised is that your 'clutch foot' is infinitely less sensitive than your right foot when it comes to braking!
The net result - I nearly went through the windscreen, with the following driver swerving around with locked wheels
That was the last time - ever!
What I hadn't realised is that your 'clutch foot' is infinitely less sensitive than your right foot when it comes to braking!
The net result - I nearly went through the windscreen, with the following driver swerving around with locked wheels
That was the last time - ever!
Dr Jekyll said:
And the relevance to tailgating is what?
I thought it was explained, obviously not. Lorries are (way too often), set virtually impossible time targets. Often the only way to achieve those targets is to drive to the speed limiter (which means they will not let go of any speed unless they have to), even if that means sitting way too close to the vehicle in front, hoping (pressuring maybe) that vehicle to get out the way.Is it right? No! Do I agree or support it? No! But do I understand why it happens? Often, yes!. The real problem is OFTEN (not always, agreed) the office bods who set the target times by average speed calculators taking no account of the road conditions encountered.
Some fleet managers, or traffic management type of these firms (probably a few on forums like this) should try meeting some of the targets they set. Look at the times allowed for tanker drivers versus normal artics?
If you don't attack the problem you will always be picking up pieces. But the only step as an individual is to understand other road users and drive accordingly, which often means not sitting alongside a hgv (especially if it is lhd).
Most of the issues on the road are cause and effect, it sometimes helps to understand a cause.
Am I a lorry driver? No. But have driven a few. Not a job I would want with targets as explained above.
Audemars said:
HGV drivers do not want to slow down on a motorway. They are always aiming to not have to ease off the accelerator or worse brake as it takes them along time to get their HGV moving again.
Hence they always tailgate because their only concern is to maintain their speed.
Brake checking is idiotic as too is tailgating.
People tailgating in normal vehicles are worse.
Hang on you think it's better to tail gate in a massive lorry?Hence they always tailgate because their only concern is to maintain their speed.
Brake checking is idiotic as too is tailgating.
People tailgating in normal vehicles are worse.
Edited by Audemars on Thursday 25th April 11:56
Which could literally squash a car?
Coilspring said:
Dr Jekyll said:
And the relevance to tailgating is what?
I thought it was explained, obviously not. Lorries are (way too often), set virtually impossible time targets. Often the only way to achieve those targets is to drive to the speed limiter (which means they will not let go of any speed unless they have to), even if that means sitting way too close to the vehicle in front, hoping (pressuring maybe) that vehicle to get out the way.Is it right? No! Do I agree or support it? No! But do I understand why it happens? Often, yes!. The real problem is OFTEN (not always, agreed) the office bods who set the target times by average speed calculators taking no account of the road conditions encountered.
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