RE: Driven: Cadillac CTS-V Wagon
Discussion
E21_Ross said:
certainly looks like it's a pretty good offering. though comparing it to an M5 which is now the best part of 7 years old is perhaps a little unfair, will it be better/faster than the next one, i wonder?
Umm yes, of course it would make so much more sense to compare it with a vehicle of unknown spec that isn't for sale, so you can't buy it. Why did nobody else think of this?I have to say, I seriously worry about the intellectual level of PH sometimes...
300bhp/ton said:
E21_Ross said:
certainly looks like it's a pretty good offering. though comparing it to an M5 which is now the best part of 7 years old is perhaps a little unfair, will it be better/faster than the next one, i wonder?
Umm yes, of course it would make so much more sense to compare it with a vehicle of unknown spec that isn't for sale, so you can't buy it. Why did nobody else think of this?I have to say, I seriously worry about the intellectual level of PH sometimes...
and the E60 M5 is still for sale? we know the spec of the new M5...coming out very soon for sale at least!!
no need to be quite such a cock about it
E21_Ross said:
300bhp/ton said:
E21_Ross said:
certainly looks like it's a pretty good offering. though comparing it to an M5 which is now the best part of 7 years old is perhaps a little unfair, will it be better/faster than the next one, i wonder?
Umm yes, of course it would make so much more sense to compare it with a vehicle of unknown spec that isn't for sale, so you can't buy it. Why did nobody else think of this?I have to say, I seriously worry about the intellectual level of PH sometimes...
and the E60 M5 is still for sale? we know the spec of the new M5...coming out very soon for sale at least!!
no need to be quite such a cock about it
CABBYBROWN said:
E21_Ross said:
300bhp/ton said:
E21_Ross said:
certainly looks like it's a pretty good offering. though comparing it to an M5 which is now the best part of 7 years old is perhaps a little unfair, will it be better/faster than the next one, i wonder?
Umm yes, of course it would make so much more sense to compare it with a vehicle of unknown spec that isn't for sale, so you can't buy it. Why did nobody else think of this?I have to say, I seriously worry about the intellectual level of PH sometimes...
and the E60 M5 is still for sale? we know the spec of the new M5...coming out very soon for sale at least!!
no need to be quite such a cock about it
Max_Torque said:
2 things would put me off this vs say an M5
1) the auto trans is really ponderous (manual version availible, but tbh having to deal with that kind of torque makes it a bit hard work due to the size of the bits in it)
2) the brakes, i have never driven a road car with such "temperature dependant" brakes, when cold, you think, OMG, will it stop, so you press harder, the pads warm, and suddenly you're hanging in the belts as it serves up a 2g stop without any change in the pedal pressure (although this might be fixed with the latest cars?)
I guess, if bhp per £ is important, it trounces an M5, but for everything else there's Mastercard, no, wait, I mean M-division........... ;-)
Agreed, I've driven 3 CTS-Vs now (this, and a more extensive loan of two 4-doors) and the automatic 'box does seem to take a lot off the performance. The funny thing is that when the car achieved the sub-8 minute lap of the 'ring (on road tyres), it was an automatic version.....and in 'Drive' too (no 'manual' shifts). 1) the auto trans is really ponderous (manual version availible, but tbh having to deal with that kind of torque makes it a bit hard work due to the size of the bits in it)
2) the brakes, i have never driven a road car with such "temperature dependant" brakes, when cold, you think, OMG, will it stop, so you press harder, the pads warm, and suddenly you're hanging in the belts as it serves up a 2g stop without any change in the pedal pressure (although this might be fixed with the latest cars?)
I guess, if bhp per £ is important, it trounces an M5, but for everything else there's Mastercard, no, wait, I mean M-division........... ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJstvMjxBVA
Can't say I've noticed anything negative about the brakes in the miles I've done so far.
Would respectfully suggest though that to dismiss the car as merely delivering good bhp per £ over an M5 is perhaps a bit inaccurate. It has more torque (from lower rpm), gets better MPG in my experience, and generally accelerates, brakes and corners more efficiently. Also the servicing intervals are longer.
George H said:
CABBYBROWN said:
What? Not even a little bit? Not even to read a road test or review about it? Not interested even a tiny, little bit...?
No. It looks vile, far too bling.I would gladly pay double the price of it for an E63, M5 or RS6.
CABBYBROWN said:
OK. You obviously have much deeper pockets than me but you did read this article and replied to the thread so you must have had a little interest, no? I'm not saying I would necessarily buy one but I do like to see rare and unusual cars (classic or modern) and a 550hp rwd estate that is not from the German big3 piques my interest
Nothing to do with the money. I would rather have a lower spec European equivelant for the same money as this.George H said:
CABBYBROWN said:
OK. You obviously have much deeper pockets than me but you did read this article and replied to the thread so you must have had a little interest, no? I'm not saying I would necessarily buy one but I do like to see rare and unusual cars (classic or modern) and a 550hp rwd estate that is not from the German big3 piques my interest
Nothing to do with the money. I would rather have a lower spec European equivelant for the same money as this.Dagnut said:
If you were going to write a pretty vague piece like this might have been an idea to at least include some decent pictures...sorry to complain but not up to the usual standards
Fair comment. As I explained early on we only had a very limited time with the thing and thought it was worth reporting. Would have loved to drive it a lot further but would quite likely have ended up getting a stern talking-to (or worse) off the Californian Highway Patrol! silversixx said:
Max_Torque said:
2 things would put me off this vs say an M5
1) the auto trans is really ponderous (manual version availible, but tbh having to deal with that kind of torque makes it a bit hard work due to the size of the bits in it)
2) the brakes, i have never driven a road car with such "temperature dependant" brakes, when cold, you think, OMG, will it stop, so you press harder, the pads warm, and suddenly you're hanging in the belts as it serves up a 2g stop without any change in the pedal pressure (although this might be fixed with the latest cars?)
I guess, if bhp per £ is important, it trounces an M5, but for everything else there's Mastercard, no, wait, I mean M-division........... ;-)
Agreed, I've driven 3 CTS-Vs now (this, and a more extensive loan of two 4-doors) and the automatic 'box does seem to take a lot off the performance. The funny thing is that when the car achieved the sub-8 minute lap of the 'ring (on road tyres), it was an automatic version.....and in 'Drive' too (no 'manual' shifts). 1) the auto trans is really ponderous (manual version availible, but tbh having to deal with that kind of torque makes it a bit hard work due to the size of the bits in it)
2) the brakes, i have never driven a road car with such "temperature dependant" brakes, when cold, you think, OMG, will it stop, so you press harder, the pads warm, and suddenly you're hanging in the belts as it serves up a 2g stop without any change in the pedal pressure (although this might be fixed with the latest cars?)
I guess, if bhp per £ is important, it trounces an M5, but for everything else there's Mastercard, no, wait, I mean M-division........... ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJstvMjxBVA
Can't say I've noticed anything negative about the brakes in the miles I've done so far.
Would respectfully suggest though that to dismiss the car as merely delivering good bhp per £ over an M5 is perhaps a bit inaccurate. It has more torque (from lower rpm), gets better MPG in my experience, and generally accelerates, brakes and corners more efficiently. Also the servicing intervals are longer.
I disagree slightly with the "more efficient than an M5" part however. In isolation the CTS-V feels really rather good (linear off centre steering response, good lateral G build up (body roll vs g is nice, and mass transfer is nicely controlled), but actually if you directly benchmark it against an M5 (E60) (as i have been lucky enough to do both on the road and track, "hello, er, hi boss, can we have another couple of sets of tyres for each car please......" ;-) then the M5 actually delivers better performance (both in terms of lateral G and acceleration (due to better traction, and a rear suspension that is signifacntly more progressive under dynamic loads (bumps, ridges, lateral inputs etc).
The difference of course is that the M5 has to be properly "wound up" to deliver this performance (at which point it "overdelivers") whereas the slightly lazier feeling CTS delivers an inital response that is much bigger and feels impressive, but one that actually (subjectively and objectively) slightly undelivers at the ultimate limit)
On the road the last M5's biggest drawback is the ponderous (by current std's) SMG transmission (fine, if a bit brutal when "going for it").
As for the MPG, i don't really consider that tbh, afterall, on the "road" something like a 335d can easily keep up with either car, and return roughly double the MPG!!! (a LOT less fun though ;-)
If sir would like something with yank iron (well, aluminium) in the front, built in RHD and capable of scaring the st out of a herd of Labradors, might I humbly suggest that the Colonials also build an estate version of the VXR8:
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=47&i=1937...
Start petitioning Vauxhall
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=47&i=1937...
Start petitioning Vauxhall
George H said:
No. It looks vile, far too bling.
I would gladly pay double the price of it for an E63, M5 or RS6.
Plenty of people willing to pay more NOT to have a faceless Germolinmobile. I do admire the PH lemming desire to be just like every other car on the road. Soon all be part of the Borg.I would gladly pay double the price of it for an E63, M5 or RS6.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff