RE: Driven: Cadillac CTS-V Wagon

RE: Driven: Cadillac CTS-V Wagon

Author
Discussion

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
E21_Ross said:
certainly looks like it's a pretty good offering. though comparing it to an M5 which is now the best part of 7 years old is perhaps a little unfair, will it be better/faster than the next one, i wonder?
Umm yes, of course it would make so much more sense to compare it with a vehicle of unknown spec that isn't for sale, so you can't buy it. Why did nobody else think of this?



I have to say, I seriously worry about the intellectual level of PH sometimes... wink

E21_Ross

34,946 posts

211 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
E21_Ross said:
certainly looks like it's a pretty good offering. though comparing it to an M5 which is now the best part of 7 years old is perhaps a little unfair, will it be better/faster than the next one, i wonder?
Umm yes, of course it would make so much more sense to compare it with a vehicle of unknown spec that isn't for sale, so you can't buy it. Why did nobody else think of this?



I have to say, I seriously worry about the intellectual level of PH sometimes... wink
you know what i meant hehe

and the E60 M5 is still for sale? we know the spec of the new M5...coming out very soon for sale at least!!

no need to be quite such a cock about it wink

CABBYBROWN

1,426 posts

181 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
E21_Ross said:
300bhp/ton said:
E21_Ross said:
certainly looks like it's a pretty good offering. though comparing it to an M5 which is now the best part of 7 years old is perhaps a little unfair, will it be better/faster than the next one, i wonder?
Umm yes, of course it would make so much more sense to compare it with a vehicle of unknown spec that isn't for sale, so you can't buy it. Why did nobody else think of this?



I have to say, I seriously worry about the intellectual level of PH sometimes... wink
you know what i meant hehe

and the E60 M5 is still for sale? we know the spec of the new M5...coming out very soon for sale at least!!

no need to be quite such a cock about it wink
Yes, we know what you meant and for this to even be compared with an M5 (E60 or otherwise) can only be a compliment AND it was faster round the 'Ring (which these days is a fairly well recognised benchmark, for better or worse). If this Caddy was available over here, in RHD and for c£42k, who wouldn't be interested? An M5 would probably be a more astute purchase if money wasn't an issue but at around half the price, well, you'd have to think about it, wouldn't you?

E21_Ross

34,946 posts

211 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
CABBYBROWN said:
E21_Ross said:
300bhp/ton said:
E21_Ross said:
certainly looks like it's a pretty good offering. though comparing it to an M5 which is now the best part of 7 years old is perhaps a little unfair, will it be better/faster than the next one, i wonder?
Umm yes, of course it would make so much more sense to compare it with a vehicle of unknown spec that isn't for sale, so you can't buy it. Why did nobody else think of this?



I have to say, I seriously worry about the intellectual level of PH sometimes... wink
you know what i meant hehe

and the E60 M5 is still for sale? we know the spec of the new M5...coming out very soon for sale at least!!

no need to be quite such a cock about it wink
Yes, we know what you meant and for this to even be compared with an M5 (E60 or otherwise) can only be a compliment AND it was faster round the 'Ring (which these days is a fairly well recognised benchmark, for better or worse). If this Caddy was available over here, in RHD and for c£42k, who wouldn't be interested? An M5 would probably be a more astute purchase if money wasn't an issue but at around half the price, well, you'd have to think about it, wouldn't you?
yes the problem is, because of fking taxes, it'd be over 50k most likely frown

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
E21_Ross said:
yes the problem is, because of fking taxes, it'd be over 50k most likely frown
But isn't that still cheaper than an M5? I admit, I have no idea what an M5 would cost though.

George H

14,706 posts

163 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
CABBYBROWN said:
If this Caddy was available over here, in RHD and for c£42k, who wouldn't be interested?
Me.

CABBYBROWN

1,426 posts

181 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
George H said:
CABBYBROWN said:
If this Caddy was available over here, in RHD and for c£42k, who wouldn't be interested?
Me.
What? Not even a little bit? Not even to read a road test or review about it? Not interested even a tiny, little bit...?

George H

14,706 posts

163 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
CABBYBROWN said:
What? Not even a little bit? Not even to read a road test or review about it? Not interested even a tiny, little bit...?
No. It looks vile, far too bling.

I would gladly pay double the price of it for an E63, M5 or RS6.

silversixx

140 posts

210 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
2 things would put me off this vs say an M5

1) the auto trans is really ponderous (manual version availible, but tbh having to deal with that kind of torque makes it a bit hard work due to the size of the bits in it)

2) the brakes, i have never driven a road car with such "temperature dependant" brakes, when cold, you think, OMG, will it stop, so you press harder, the pads warm, and suddenly you're hanging in the belts as it serves up a 2g stop without any change in the pedal pressure (although this might be fixed with the latest cars?)


I guess, if bhp per £ is important, it trounces an M5, but for everything else there's Mastercard, no, wait, I mean M-division........... ;-)
Agreed, I've driven 3 CTS-Vs now (this, and a more extensive loan of two 4-doors) and the automatic 'box does seem to take a lot off the performance. The funny thing is that when the car achieved the sub-8 minute lap of the 'ring (on road tyres), it was an automatic version.....and in 'Drive' too (no 'manual' shifts).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJstvMjxBVA

Can't say I've noticed anything negative about the brakes in the miles I've done so far.

Would respectfully suggest though that to dismiss the car as merely delivering good bhp per £ over an M5 is perhaps a bit inaccurate. It has more torque (from lower rpm), gets better MPG in my experience, and generally accelerates, brakes and corners more efficiently. Also the servicing intervals are longer.


kambites

67,462 posts

220 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
I quite like the back, but the weird squared off bits on the corners of the front bumper and the chrome grills are awful. If they did a "de-bling pack" for it, it'd be a lovely car. Nice to read that they offer a proper manual 'box too.

CABBYBROWN

1,426 posts

181 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
George H said:
CABBYBROWN said:
What? Not even a little bit? Not even to read a road test or review about it? Not interested even a tiny, little bit...?
No. It looks vile, far too bling.

I would gladly pay double the price of it for an E63, M5 or RS6.
OK. You obviously have much deeper pockets than me but you did read this article and replied to the thread so you must have had a little interest, no? I'm not saying I would necessarily buy one but I do like to see rare and unusual cars (classic or modern) and a 550hp rwd estate that is not from the German big3 piques my interestwavey

Dagnut

3,515 posts

192 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
If you were going to write a pretty vague piece like this might have been an idea to at least include some decent pictures...sorry to complain but not up to the usual standards

George H

14,706 posts

163 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
CABBYBROWN said:
OK. You obviously have much deeper pockets than me but you did read this article and replied to the thread so you must have had a little interest, no? I'm not saying I would necessarily buy one but I do like to see rare and unusual cars (classic or modern) and a 550hp rwd estate that is not from the German big3 piques my interestwavey
Nothing to do with the money. I would rather have a lower spec European equivelant for the same money as this.

Beefmeister

16,482 posts

229 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
Would be nice if a road tester could bring more than an iPhone with them on a review to take piccies....

CABBYBROWN

1,426 posts

181 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
George H said:
CABBYBROWN said:
OK. You obviously have much deeper pockets than me but you did read this article and replied to the thread so you must have had a little interest, no? I'm not saying I would necessarily buy one but I do like to see rare and unusual cars (classic or modern) and a 550hp rwd estate that is not from the German big3 piques my interestwavey
Nothing to do with the money. I would rather have a lower spec European equivelant for the same money as this.
I think Cadillac just crossed you off their Christmas card list...

silversixx

140 posts

210 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
Dagnut said:
If you were going to write a pretty vague piece like this might have been an idea to at least include some decent pictures...sorry to complain but not up to the usual standards
Fair comment. As I explained early on we only had a very limited time with the thing and thought it was worth reporting. Would have loved to drive it a lot further but would quite likely have ended up getting a stern talking-to (or worse) off the Californian Highway Patrol!

Dr G

15,159 posts

241 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
em177 said:
Quick bit of dark spray paint to those grills and that looks a rather tasty thing!
I was thinking that, much like Audi's 'black optics' package.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
silversixx said:
Max_Torque said:
2 things would put me off this vs say an M5

1) the auto trans is really ponderous (manual version availible, but tbh having to deal with that kind of torque makes it a bit hard work due to the size of the bits in it)

2) the brakes, i have never driven a road car with such "temperature dependant" brakes, when cold, you think, OMG, will it stop, so you press harder, the pads warm, and suddenly you're hanging in the belts as it serves up a 2g stop without any change in the pedal pressure (although this might be fixed with the latest cars?)


I guess, if bhp per £ is important, it trounces an M5, but for everything else there's Mastercard, no, wait, I mean M-division........... ;-)
Agreed, I've driven 3 CTS-Vs now (this, and a more extensive loan of two 4-doors) and the automatic 'box does seem to take a lot off the performance. The funny thing is that when the car achieved the sub-8 minute lap of the 'ring (on road tyres), it was an automatic version.....and in 'Drive' too (no 'manual' shifts).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJstvMjxBVA

Can't say I've noticed anything negative about the brakes in the miles I've done so far.

Would respectfully suggest though that to dismiss the car as merely delivering good bhp per £ over an M5 is perhaps a bit inaccurate. It has more torque (from lower rpm), gets better MPG in my experience, and generally accelerates, brakes and corners more efficiently. Also the servicing intervals are longer.
You are right, i should have said "performance per ££" as the CTS has a much much larger spread of power!

I disagree slightly with the "more efficient than an M5" part however. In isolation the CTS-V feels really rather good (linear off centre steering response, good lateral G build up (body roll vs g is nice, and mass transfer is nicely controlled), but actually if you directly benchmark it against an M5 (E60) (as i have been lucky enough to do both on the road and track, "hello, er, hi boss, can we have another couple of sets of tyres for each car please......" ;-) then the M5 actually delivers better performance (both in terms of lateral G and acceleration (due to better traction, and a rear suspension that is signifacntly more progressive under dynamic loads (bumps, ridges, lateral inputs etc).

The difference of course is that the M5 has to be properly "wound up" to deliver this performance (at which point it "overdelivers") whereas the slightly lazier feeling CTS delivers an inital response that is much bigger and feels impressive, but one that actually (subjectively and objectively) slightly undelivers at the ultimate limit)

On the road the last M5's biggest drawback is the ponderous (by current std's) SMG transmission (fine, if a bit brutal when "going for it").

As for the MPG, i don't really consider that tbh, afterall, on the "road" something like a 335d can easily keep up with either car, and return roughly double the MPG!!! (a LOT less fun though ;-)

seefarr

1,461 posts

185 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
If sir would like something with yank iron (well, aluminium) in the front, built in RHD and capable of scaring the st out of a herd of Labradors, might I humbly suggest that the Colonials also build an estate version of the VXR8:

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=47&i=1937...

Start petitioning Vauxhall wink

LuS1fer

41,086 posts

244 months

Tuesday 17th May 2011
quotequote all
George H said:
No. It looks vile, far too bling.

I would gladly pay double the price of it for an E63, M5 or RS6.
Plenty of people willing to pay more NOT to have a faceless Germolinmobile. I do admire the PH lemming desire to be just like every other car on the road. Soon all be part of the Borg.