Ringing kits for sale on ebay...No not on our watch!

[sxmwht]

I don't understand what ringing is - someone explain please?

[InitialDave]

sxmwht said:

I don't understand what ringing is - someone explain please?

Applying the identity of one vehicle to another, basically.

Swap/re-stamp any ID plates to those of a different example of the same model, put number plates on it and suddenly it's now the "car" you bought in the form of a V5C... and not a stolen/written-off/cut-and-shut/too new for historic vehicle benefits example.

It's especially dangerous for classics with limited layers of ID on the car itself (maybe just one riveted plate) and being able to handwash not being 100% correct with how much things change over many decades and multiple owners, plus high values nowadays.

Steal a £10k Land Rover or £15k Escort. Buy an equivalent V5C on Ebay for £200. Afternoon's work and you have a completely "legit" car to sell.

[Peanut Gallery]

Exactly as above - acquire this 20k Porsche through methods that do not require any money but having watched gone in 60 seconds just unscrew a front indicator bulb..

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2018...

And acquire this "MEMORABILIA" from ebay for £16, after a bit of paint and riveting, you now have your own car on your new plates, in your name, with matching vin number on your v5.

[url]
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-1984-PORSCHE-92...

[LarJammer]

Some expensive ringers in this video!
https://youtu.be/Ruq2HNrJDcI

InitialDave said:

sxmwht said:

I don't understand what ringing is - someone explain please?

Applying the identity of one vehicle to another, basically.

Swap/re-stamp any ID plates to those of a different example of the same model, put number plates on it and suddenly it's now the "car" you bought in the form of a V5C... and not a stolen/written-off/cut-and-shut/too new for historic vehicle benefits example.

It's especially dangerous for classics with limited layers of ID on the car itself (maybe just one riveted plate) and being able to handwash not being 100% correct with how much things change over many decades and multiple owners, plus high values nowadays.

Steal a £10k Land Rover or £15k Escort. Buy an equivalent V5C on Ebay for £200. Afternoon's work and you have a completely "legit" car to sell.

[Touring442]

Fastpedeller said:

What's your issue? or are you just trolling (in which case I've fallen for it!)
I guess you've never had a car stolen (thankfully I haven't either) but I feel for those who have.

Those whining on and on and on about kit cars with logbooks from a donor car. Get a life FFS.

[Easternlight]

Just came up on another thread.
Not exactly a ringing kit but?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283753168125

Who wouldn't give £28.5k for a car with two V5's

[saaby93]

Easternlight said:

Just came up on another thread.
Not exactly a ringing kit but?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283753168125

Who wouldn't give £28.5k for a car with two V5's

Worth £35k - overseas buyers welcome

[A1VDY]

Easternlight said:

Just came up on another thread.
Not exactly a ringing kit but?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283753168125

Who wouldn't give £28.5k for a car with two V5's

What an utter piece of cr5p.
The guy really believes it's going to be a big seller lol.
Interior looks well farted out..

[InitialDave]

Touring442 said:

Those whining on and on and on about kit cars with logbooks from a donor car. Get a life FFS.

Do you not understand why it is a problem for people to be selling those to unsuspecting buyers?

[Touring442]

InitialDave said:

Do you not understand why it is a problem for people to be selling those to unsuspecting buyers?

Oh God.........

1. Can the kit car be inspected and given a new number and V5 by DVLA?

2. How is a kit car built from a Triumph Herald decades ago a ringer, exactly?

[InitialDave]

Touring442 said:

InitialDave said:

Do you not understand why it is a problem for people to be selling those to unsuspecting buyers?

Oh God.........

1. Can the kit car be inspected and given a new number and V5 by DVLA?

2. How is a kit car built from a Triumph Herald decades ago a ringer, exactly?

1. The amnesty on simply renaming the car on the V5 to its kit form rather than the original donor is now long in the past. You're looking at an IVA test as per a "fresh" kit build, which an old existing kit will almost certainly not pass without a good bit of work and expense.

2. The vehicle is registered as something other than what it is.

Maybe you'll get lucky and be able to just change the identity on the V5, with supporting evidence that it's been what it is since before they changed the rules, but that's more than a bit of a gamble to saddle yourself with. If you choose to do so being aware of the potential can of worms involved and going into it eyes-open, that's absolutely fine. But selling such a car as being completely legit and ok to someone who doesn't know any better is not cool at all.

[Touring442]

InitialDave said:

1. The amnesty on simply renaming the car on the V5 to its kit form rather than the original donor is now long in the past.

A mate did a Mark 4 Cortina based thing last year.

[InitialDave]

Touring442 said:

A mate did a Mark 4 Cortina based thing last year.

He might well have done, but there's no guarantee of that being possible. Likewise, you could quite probably keep using a kit car registered as the original donor for many many years without issue.

Or you might be the one who has it when the music stops and need to unravel the whole mess.

Nothing wrong with taking that risk on if you're aware of it and accounted for it. I probably would on the right car at the right price. But as with the good old "no MOT but will pass one easily", if it's really that simple... why hasn't the seller sorted it out?

[dhutch]

Liquid Knight said:

Whenever I see this...



....I look for this.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-CORTINA-MK2-1969-L...

eBay are accessories to the theft of thousands of motor vehicles in the UK alone.

Time to step things up again.

Atleast if it's clear enough to read the reg, you can know if it's yours... ..maybe knowing is worse!

[Touring442]

InitialDave said:

Touring442 said:

A mate did a Mark 4 Cortina based thing last year.

He might well have done, but there's no guarantee of that being possible. Likewise, you could quite probably keep using a kit car registered as the original donor for many many years without issue.

Or you might be the one who has it when the music stops and need to unravel the whole mess.

Nothing wrong with taking that risk on if you're aware of it and accounted for it. I probably would on the right car at the right price. But as with the good old "no MOT but will pass one easily", if it's really that simple... why hasn't the seller sorted it out?

Agreed.

But my point here is, nobody is being robbed. It's obvious a Lotus Seven replica registered as a Ford Escort, isn't an Escort. It is what it is and like any other car purchase, you need to do your research.

Proper ringing - which nobody condones - is a stolen car with a V5 from another. A whole different ball game.

[Liquid Knight]

Touring442 said:

InitialDave said:

Touring442 said:

A mate did a Mark 4 Cortina based thing last year.

He might well have done, but there's no guarantee of that being possible. Likewise, you could quite probably keep using a kit car registered as the original donor for many many years without issue.

Or you might be the one who has it when the music stops and need to unravel the whole mess.

Nothing wrong with taking that risk on if you're aware of it and accounted for it. I probably would on the right car at the right price. But as with the good old "no MOT but will pass one easily", if it's really that simple... why hasn't the seller sorted it out?

Agreed.

But my point here is, nobody is being robbed. It's obvious a Lotus Seven replica registered as a Ford Escort, isn't an Escort. It is what it is and like any other car purchase, you need to do your research.

Proper ringing - which nobody condones - is a stolen car with a V5 from another. A whole different ball game.

This is a different topic and the risk vs reward argument has been played out to a degree...

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

...undeclared engine conversions and so on "for cheap insurance" for example is a minefield. A mine that could blow you apart if you send the log book off and it turns out the donor for the engine, drive train, suspension, brakes etc was stolen.

Also to do a full conversion would mean it would be a radically altered vehicle and require an (s)IVA (or whatever it's called this week) the same as a kit car. Could well be a stolen car with a lesser model's identity ringed to it. The conversion could take a weeks, swapping plates could take minutes. Either way to do it honestly/legitimately would cost money so it rarely happens.

Kit cars with the donor vehicle identity have most likely not been (s)IVA'd so you don't know to what standard the kit has been made to. Factory supplied or made in a shed by someone who learned how to weld as they went.

No reward is worth that risk.

Best to avoid anything that isn't registered properly.

On that topic and to brighten things up. Here's a real gem I'm actually considering for the soon approaching track day season.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Courier-1-7-Puma-E...

[dhutch]

Liquid Knight said:

Kit cars with the donor vehicle identity have most likely not been (s)IVA'd so you don't know to what standard the kit has been made to.



On that topic and to brighten things up. Here's a real gem I'm actually considering for the soon approaching track day season.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Courier-1-7-Puma-E...

Of course anything pre 1998 didnt have an SVA anyway, so on older cars, its slightly more immaterial in terms of build quality, if not legality!

A 1.7puma van, why ever not. #sleeper

[LLantrisant]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ferrari-860-Monza-Recre...



OIL 5609
✓ Taxed
Tax due:
1 January 2021
Incorrect tax status?
✓ MOT
Expires:
17 July 2020

Vehicle Details

Vehicle make
KOUGAR
Date of first registration
January 1982
Year of manufacture
1981
Cylinder capacity
2993 cc
CO₂ emissions
Not available
Fuel type
PETROL
Euro status
Not available
Real Driving Emissions (RDE)
Not available
Export marker
No
Vehicle status
Taxed
Vehicle colour
RED
Vehicle type approval
Not available
Wheelplan
2 AXLE RIGID BODY
Revenue weight
Not available
Date of last V5C (logbook) issued
21 July 2014

[Fastpedeller]

Looks like it's correctly registered, although listing it under the Ferrari name and putting Ferrari badges on it is a bit foolish IMHO, it doesn't look as though the seller is mis-representing (depending on how you view the word 'recreation') He does say GRP body. I laugh at the "attended such and such event" as if that's meant to add to the value.

Worse though was a guy advertising his pedal bike saying "has been ridden up Alp De Huez" - so drivetrain probably shagged then?

[skwdenyer]

Fastpedeller said:

Looks like it's correctly registered, although listing it under the Ferrari name and putting Ferrari badges on it is a bit foolish IMHO, it doesn't look as though the seller is mis-representing (depending on how you view the word 'recreation') He does say GRP body. I laugh at the "attended such and such event" as if that's meant to add to the value.

Worse though was a guy advertising his pedal bike saying "has been ridden up Alp De Huez" - so drivetrain probably shagged then?

The event stuff, beyond being basic keyword stuffing, is actually quite savvy as a sales tactic. It may not add value to you, but it could well increase interest amongst some who might like to attend such events but couldn't imagine ever owning a car worthy of the effort.