Nasty Ring accident today at Bergwerk

[Porkie]

130R said:

nd their customers are presumably thinking "it will never happen to me". I can't believe many people that are renting a GT3RS could afford to cover a €75000 excess?

Personally I think you are wrong.

[DonkeyApple]

Dagnut said:

DonkeyApple said:

Whoever was driving the Porker was much, much smoother and under less pressure than the M5. I found it surprising that the M5 was twitching and looking very nervous while the Porker, which I believe wasn't one of the faster ones) had more of a Sunday outing look about it, no dabs of oppo or twitching etc.

the M5 did seem to execute a couple of manoevres that looked extremely dangerous. I guess there is a trade off being made that if the taxis sat behind everything until there was a clear opportunity then the customers would feel it hadn't been worth the payment? Seemed perilous to me though. Seemed a slow lap in a very, very twitchy car.

Its for entertainment purposes..it's the ring taxi

I'm sure that is very much the case but I've taken an M5 estate around in that time and I am nowhere near being the kind of driver that these people are but the car was nowhere near that twitchy. It seemed incongruous to me to be jumping around that much in what is a brilliant car while clearly not posting a lap time anywhere near what it is capable of, especially given the ability of the pilots?

Unless I've missed something that was only just under a 10 min lap and the Carrera wasn't breaking a sweat to stick behind it, so I'm just puzzled how you get a car to twitch like that when it can't be anywhere near its or the driver's limits?

[Dagnut]

DonkeyApple said:

I'm sure that is very much the case but I've taken an M5 estate around in that time and I am nowhere near being the kind of driver that these people are but the car was nowhere near that twitchy. It seemed incongruous to me to be jumping around that much in what is a brilliant car while clearly not posting a lap time anywhere near what it is capable of, especially given the ability of the pilots?

Unless I've missed something that was only just under a 10 min lap and the Carrera wasn't breaking a sweat to stick behind it, so I'm just puzzled how you get a car to twitch like that when it can't be anywhere near its or the driver's limits?

To entertain the passengers? what other purpose does a ring taxi serve? Who wants to go on a roller coaster and feel safe?

[XTR2Turbo]

jamie g said:

Oh yeah sorry.
The worst bits are 3:55, 6:00 and the last minute, but just generally driving like it was stolen.

The bike at 3:55 in orange jacket looked more to me like a marshall bike that you see riding around and he was out of view for atleast 3 seconds and could have signalled her through in this period.

In fact it looked more like the Porsche behind that caught his eye and concern as he started to turn in after the BMW had passed.

I have hired 4 ring taxis and each one has been exceptionally well driven and the standard of driver and their ring and track experience will be massively above all but a handful of anyone posting on here.

Yes they have a tendency to showboat for the customer but normally in the slower and tighter corners.

They have told me that the implications for them crashing are very grave so not in their interests at all to take too many risks. They drive fast and well within their capablities. Of course no accounting always for others.

How long has the ring taxi been running. How many laps have they done and how many accidents? I think their safety record is pretty good.

If any issue they may be trying to squeeze in too many slots each day and long ring closures on TF can make the shecdule a pressure on the driver.

It would be a massive shame if negative feedback on forums like this, especially with partial information, helped lead to the demise of the ring taxi.

Edited by XTR2Turbo on Tuesday 4th October 16:55

[1]

DonkeyApple said:

I'm sure that is very much the case but I've taken an M5 estate around in that time and I am nowhere near being the kind of driver that these people are but the car was nowhere near that twitchy. It seemed incongruous to me to be jumping around that much in what is a brilliant car while clearly not posting a lap time anywhere near what it is capable of, especially given the ability of the pilots?

Unless I've missed something that was only just under a 10 min lap and the Carrera wasn't breaking a sweat to stick behind it, so I'm just puzzled how you get a car to twitch like that when it can't be anywhere near its or the driver's limits?

External footage often makes things more twitchy than onboard footage. Also dont forget that 4 up with some fuel the M5 probably weights in at over 2200kg!

[scenario8]

DonkeyApple said:

I'm sure that is very much the case but I've taken an M5 estate around in that time and I am nowhere near being the kind of driver that these people are but the car was nowhere near that twitchy. It seemed incongruous to me to be jumping around that much in what is a brilliant car while clearly not posting a lap time anywhere near what it is capable of, especially given the ability of the pilots?

Unless I've missed something that was only just under a 10 min lap and the Carrera wasn't breaking a sweat to stick behind it, so I'm just puzzled how you get a car to twitch like that when it can't be anywhere near its or the driver's limits?

I've never been to the 'Ring so I'll just add that I didn't realise it was that hilly and bumpy. And there was an effing bus going around it at 7 minutes, too! (Video time, not lap time)

Quite how it must feel to lap in under 8 minutes...

[RDMcG]

scenario8 said:

I've never been to the 'Ring so I'll just add that I didn't realise it was that hilly and bumpy. And there was an effing bus going around it at 7 minutes, too! (Video time, not lap time)

Quite how it must feel to lap in under 8 minutes...

The buses no longer run to my knowledge,,that's quite an old vid.

[buellboy]

thanks to these morons, I spent over £2K, took 2 days off work and travelled 900 miles only to get just 1 lap the WHOLE long weekend.

That old beemer was all over the place. The vx220 were actually driving reasonably as were the corvettes. Just before the accident ( I was on the grass bank at Adenaude) I said to my mate "Those ring taxis really do go for it!"

[scenario8]

RDMcG said:

The buses no longer run to my knowledge,,that's quite an old vid.

Blast, that was my most likely means of travel.

[Joe911]

Julian M said:

Why did the video showing the non existent braking distance from the warning signs get removed? I understand these accidents happen all the time but why not at least have better warnings?

Probably because the Ring management didn't want people to see the video and complained to youtube that it was filmed illegally. You need permission to have in-car video during TF.

[RDMcG]

Joe911 said:

Probably because the Ring management didn't want people to see the video and complained to youtube that it was filmed illegally. You need permission to have in-car video during TF.

I was wondering about that. It was a very revealing clip.

[Pip1968]

I was there a few months ago and the buses do still run well I have seen the coach twice. It is usually full of old people and always sticks to the right and I seem to remember the Ringwerk cars with flashing lights escorting it.

Pip

[C8PPO]

Tonsko said:

There's one point where she forces the car between a bike + another car on a corner. Thought it was a little audacious, no matter how good you think you are... and she's clearly very good.

It was a very questionable under/overtake on the Taxi's part, but it has to be said that the biker couldn't have placed him/herself (a) more badly and (b) more dangerously. Said as a biker who has way into 3-figures-worth of Ring laps under their belt. Sabine was fairly lucky to get away with that; could have turned out much less pleasantly.

[DonkeyApple]

C8PPO said:

Tonsko said:

There's one point where she forces the car between a bike + another car on a corner. Thought it was a little audacious, no matter how good you think you are... and she's clearly very good.

It was a very questionable under/overtake on the Taxi's part, but it has to be said that the biker couldn't have placed him/herself (a) more badly and (b) more dangerously. Said as a biker who has way into 3-figures-worth of Ring laps under their belt. Sabine was fairly lucky to get away with that; could have turned out much less pleasantly.

Bikes do seem to fall into 3 catagories at the Ring.

Those that are ridden well and regardless of whether they are fast or slow will be aware of what is going on around them and also position themselves intelligently on the road.

Those that are ridden fast and wild, taking some big risks such is sneaking under cars that are clearly heading for an apex curve.

And the last group which does seem quite a significant group, where the bike is ridden slowly and without any awareness as to the surroundings and very bad track positioning.

I have no doubt that it is just the same for cars but it tends to stick out more as two wheels seems to be a magnitude less safe than 4.

But I did think the taxi was being driven more akin to an illegal late night pick up from Picadilly than a pro driver.

[Hartge210]

irf said:

sorry, what are you lot on about?

i could be wrong but in the BMW taxi vid i was under the impression that sabine was in the camera car following. no argument from me about the stupid driving though.

She's got VERY hairy arms if it was

[DonkeyApple]

1 said:

DonkeyApple said:

I'm sure that is very much the case but I've taken an M5 estate around in that time and I am nowhere near being the kind of driver that these people are but the car was nowhere near that twitchy. It seemed incongruous to me to be jumping around that much in what is a brilliant car while clearly not posting a lap time anywhere near what it is capable of, especially given the ability of the pilots?

Unless I've missed something that was only just under a 10 min lap and the Carrera wasn't breaking a sweat to stick behind it, so I'm just puzzled how you get a car to twitch like that when it can't be anywhere near its or the driver's limits?

External footage often makes things more twitchy than onboard footage. Also dont forget that 4 up with some fuel the M5 probably weights in at over 2200kg!

Very true, but we were 4 up (all 6'+ and powerfully built with multiple directorships) + luggage for 4 people and there is no way the wagon was squirming and twitching like that.

[130R]

Porkie said:

Personally I think you are wrong.

Possibly, I would just assume that most people that could cover an excess that large would have their own Porsche/Ferrari/etc to use at the ring rather than hire one. I guess if it is mainly people from far afield hiring it, it could be the case.

[Rollcage]

DonkeyApple said:

Very true, but we were 4 up (all 6'+ and powerfully built with multiple directorships) + luggage for 4 people and there is no way the wagon was squirming and twitching like that.

She was just driving for effect - giving the passengers a twitchy ride, complete with much tyre squealing and sliding. She can get a Diesel S type round in 9 minutes 12, so a 10 minute lap in an E39 is just messing about. I would have thought an E39 M5 would do about 8'30 ish, driven properly.

[redback911]

Tourist days are not the only dangerous time at the Ring. Closed days can be just as dangerous, basically any time there is a big differential in speed and driver ability, has the potential for a major accident.

"It was on a closed-track trackday instead of the usual touristenfahrten. The impact happened at the fastest part of the circuit at the end of the longest straight between antoniusbuche and tiergarten. I'm guessing the M3 was doing in the region of 160mph. From what I've read he was an experienced ringer and unfortunately hit the back of the slower moving mini (that can be seen in the background of the pics) after coming over the blind crest. The driver of the M3 got away with only a broken arm!"

Before



After

Edited by redback911 on Tuesday 4th October 18:45

[RichardR]

fatboy18 said:

I'm amazed by how many normal Euro boxes I see driving on the UKs roads with Ring stickers on the back! Ive only ever noticed 2 cars with PH stickers on them in since I joined PH! (not including Hoones and Sunday service runs)

I've got both on my car but all my trips driving to and around the 'ring have been with a friend in his TVRs.