Nasty Ring accident today at Bergwerk
Discussion
VvrooomM said:
HON2A said:
Small world. Friend knows the chap in the black BMW involved and the white Porsche parked up behind the accident ... will ask!
There wasn't a black BMW involved, one green , one White and ibe multiple coloured ring taxi!!
Mark A said:
Considering the discussion on this thread and this video (9:55 then 10:30) perhaps Pistonheads need to alter their sub-headline as the M3 Taxi doesn't look like a victim!
I wonder how long before this vid is pulled too.johnfelstead said:
TF days are now a complete waste of time and money.
I used to go to the 'ring regularly, often every two weeks, back in the early 00's after having spent years doing UK trackdays before heading out there. Back in the day you could do pretty much as many laps as you felt like, the closures were rare. Of course you would come accross the ocasional shunt, but on the whole the track wasnt closed as these were easily managed locally. Traffic levels were sensible, quick drivers knew they were quick and who they could run with at pace safely, the slow guys knew they were slow or inexperienced and drove acordingly, racking up the laps to learn before gaining pace, i felt you would have to be fairly unlucky to get involved in someone elses accident.
I've been twice this year, including this last weekend, and it's just a waste of time now, far too many idiots driving beyond their ability and because they know they may only get a run or two, are pushing things too hard without checking conditions first. I've heard far too many conversations in the car park relating to playstation games and clarksons video/time, the mentality at the place is totally different to when i first went there.
I try and make sure i'm pretty much first on track in the morning, and i'll do a lap at about 70% pace, it's just cruising for a lap to see what state the road is in, where the damp patches are, any repairs or remains of a cleanup operation etc. Once that is done i can then go at a faster pace, knowing where to be extra cautious and where i suspect i'll find things buried in the armco.
Sure enough the second lap there is an M3 burried in the barrier right where the big crash happened later in the day that this thread started with, that section of track was still wet from the night dew, yet the run up to it was bone dry so you could gain a fair bit of speed upto the point where it was sudenly wet, after a blind entry. I then get to eiscurve which is just after the big spectator area, bike is on it's side having gone off on the entry, lights still on but thankfully a marshal on the scene dealing with that one.
I come off track after that lap and do my usual cruise round the local roads to let everything cool down nicely. Get a call from a friend, track now closed, it was far too predictable. The whole weekend went like this, small time open, huge time closed sorting out the mess. I managed 5 laps in 3 days, 4 of those laps were doing an early sighting run then a quicker run straight after before the masses have woken up and saturated the place.
I shan't be bothering with TF days again, it's chaos, there is absolutely no fun driving quickly there when you are expecting to come accross carnage on every lap, knowing people are way over their heads and no one is putting any control on it.
Nurburgring GMBH need to do something about this, i think it's coming to a head now and they will have to act. Even ignoring the ring taxi crash event, it's needed some control bringing in for a while now.
With regards to insurance, i've always had proper cover there, it costs me extra and bumps up my excess for the trip duration, but i have always had piece of mind in that respect.
Tbh it sounds a lot like the isle of man during TT fortnight.....it used to be great but it is getting too popular for it's own good now, road full of "hero" assholes that embed themselves into the local flora and fauna.I used to go to the 'ring regularly, often every two weeks, back in the early 00's after having spent years doing UK trackdays before heading out there. Back in the day you could do pretty much as many laps as you felt like, the closures were rare. Of course you would come accross the ocasional shunt, but on the whole the track wasnt closed as these were easily managed locally. Traffic levels were sensible, quick drivers knew they were quick and who they could run with at pace safely, the slow guys knew they were slow or inexperienced and drove acordingly, racking up the laps to learn before gaining pace, i felt you would have to be fairly unlucky to get involved in someone elses accident.
I've been twice this year, including this last weekend, and it's just a waste of time now, far too many idiots driving beyond their ability and because they know they may only get a run or two, are pushing things too hard without checking conditions first. I've heard far too many conversations in the car park relating to playstation games and clarksons video/time, the mentality at the place is totally different to when i first went there.
I try and make sure i'm pretty much first on track in the morning, and i'll do a lap at about 70% pace, it's just cruising for a lap to see what state the road is in, where the damp patches are, any repairs or remains of a cleanup operation etc. Once that is done i can then go at a faster pace, knowing where to be extra cautious and where i suspect i'll find things buried in the armco.
Sure enough the second lap there is an M3 burried in the barrier right where the big crash happened later in the day that this thread started with, that section of track was still wet from the night dew, yet the run up to it was bone dry so you could gain a fair bit of speed upto the point where it was sudenly wet, after a blind entry. I then get to eiscurve which is just after the big spectator area, bike is on it's side having gone off on the entry, lights still on but thankfully a marshal on the scene dealing with that one.
I come off track after that lap and do my usual cruise round the local roads to let everything cool down nicely. Get a call from a friend, track now closed, it was far too predictable. The whole weekend went like this, small time open, huge time closed sorting out the mess. I managed 5 laps in 3 days, 4 of those laps were doing an early sighting run then a quicker run straight after before the masses have woken up and saturated the place.
I shan't be bothering with TF days again, it's chaos, there is absolutely no fun driving quickly there when you are expecting to come accross carnage on every lap, knowing people are way over their heads and no one is putting any control on it.
Nurburgring GMBH need to do something about this, i think it's coming to a head now and they will have to act. Even ignoring the ring taxi crash event, it's needed some control bringing in for a while now.
With regards to insurance, i've always had proper cover there, it costs me extra and bumps up my excess for the trip duration, but i have always had piece of mind in that respect.
you have to get up early and do your riding before breakfast (or go out very late in the evening)...then park up and spend the day on foot....during the (non-race) days it is road closure after road closure due to idiot RTAs.
RDMcG said:
Mark A said:
Considering the discussion on this thread and this video (9:55 then 10:30) perhaps Pistonheads need to alter their sub-headline as the M3 Taxi doesn't look like a victim!
I wonder how long before this vid is pulled too.Edited by KM666 on Tuesday 4th October 22:19
thepony said:
I agree with that - i would not take any car of mine that i really treasured.
I would want proper insurance and yes prefer to take a hire car.
Having never driven it myself or done a track day i got to ask how on earth do people learn all of those corners?
Even if you learn them on a computer game it is nothing like in real life.
Sorry but totally disagree.play a game like grand turismo 5 on the ps3 for long enough, and you will like me know the nurburg, like the back of your hand. It's not the same as real life,but its very close.I would want proper insurance and yes prefer to take a hire car.
Having never driven it myself or done a track day i got to ask how on earth do people learn all of those corners?
Even if you learn them on a computer game it is nothing like in real life.
KM666 said:
RDMcG said:
Mark A said:
Considering the discussion on this thread and this video (9:55 then 10:30) perhaps Pistonheads need to alter their sub-headline as the M3 Taxi doesn't look like a victim!
I wonder how long before this vid is pulled too.roadend1981 said:
thepony said:
I agree with that - i would not take any car of mine that i really treasured.
I would want proper insurance and yes prefer to take a hire car.
Having never driven it myself or done a track day i got to ask how on earth do people learn all of those corners?
Even if you learn them on a computer game it is nothing like in real life.
Sorry but totally disagree.play a game like grand turismo 5 on the ps3 for long enough, and you will like me know the nurburg, like the back of your hand. It's not the same as real life,but its very close.I would want proper insurance and yes prefer to take a hire car.
Having never driven it myself or done a track day i got to ask how on earth do people learn all of those corners?
Even if you learn them on a computer game it is nothing like in real life.
All it's useful for is knowing vaguely where the next corner is, and which way it goes, but even then the game is really not all that helpful - a lot of the fast flowing stuff in the game is not flowing on the track.
C
So the vette' wasn't actually involved until the t
t driving the ring taxi ran out of talent. Looks like the E92 hit the VX220, and probably the 911 aswell. That green(ish) M3 the E36 didn't seem to be involved until being hit by the Ring taxi either. Looks like the Ring management are going to be very liable here as one of their own cars made things a lot worse.
t driving the ring taxi ran out of talent. Looks like the E92 hit the VX220, and probably the 911 aswell. That green(ish) M3 the E36 didn't seem to be involved until being hit by the Ring taxi either. Looks like the Ring management are going to be very liable here as one of their own cars made things a lot worse. LukeSi said:
So the vette' wasn't actually involved until the tt driving the ring taxi ran out of talent. Looks like the E92 hit the VX220, and probably the 911 aswell. That green(ish) M3 the E36 didn't seem to be involved until being hit by the Ring taxi either. Looks like the Ring management are going to be very liable here as one of their own cars made thing a lot worse.
How are you decyphering all that then?t driving the ring taxi ran out of talent. Looks like the E92 hit the VX220, and probably the 911 aswell. That green(ish) M3 the E36 didn't seem to be involved until being hit by the Ring taxi either. Looks like the Ring management are going to be very liable here as one of their own cars made thing a lot worse. hornetrider said:
How are you decyphering all that then?
If you look in that video the corvette isn't there when the camera car goes past the porsche, the E36 M3 (I think it is the same one) is parked on the left hand side of the track, when the Ring taxi comes flying in you see a quick flash of orange which is the corvette being spun. Then there is the orange VX220 which is smashed close to the M3 (E92) and the 911. Oh and you see after the ring taxi has crashed an E36 M3 rolling over to the right hand side of the track as if it has been hit by something.-Pesty, well he should have been expecting something and taken it easy on a corner which is known for being bad.
Edited by LukeSi on Tuesday 4th October 22:53
That black and white BMW only just stops im time from hitting the Porsche and has to swerve around it you hear tyres chirping.
then another couple of cars at least stop behind the porsche leaving even less room for the taxi to stop and nowhere to go to the side. One black car stops quite short of the crached white porsche.
The ring taxi Which lets face it will have been traveling faster had nowhere to go around and less room to stop. It may be a dodgy corner but these guys go flat aout everywhere because they know the track,
If he knew there was roadworks there then yes he should have been causious but I doubt he was expecting a traffic jam.
ps how nice does that Black megane look
one of the youtube comments
"I was there a few minutes before and could brake just in time.
We warned the road workers there it was a very dangerous situation and they should warn with yellow before the corner but they only shouted 'Weiterfahren'. I have it too on video."
then another couple of cars at least stop behind the porsche leaving even less room for the taxi to stop and nowhere to go to the side. One black car stops quite short of the crached white porsche.
The ring taxi Which lets face it will have been traveling faster had nowhere to go around and less room to stop. It may be a dodgy corner but these guys go flat aout everywhere because they know the track,
If he knew there was roadworks there then yes he should have been causious but I doubt he was expecting a traffic jam.
ps how nice does that Black megane look
one of the youtube comments
"I was there a few minutes before and could brake just in time.
We warned the road workers there it was a very dangerous situation and they should warn with yellow before the corner but they only shouted 'Weiterfahren'. I have it too on video."
Edited by Pesty on Tuesday 4th October 23:13
LukeSi said:
hornetrider said:
How are you decyphering all that then?
If you look in that video the corvette isn't there when the camera car goes past the porsche, the E36 M3 (I think it is the same one) is parked on the left hand side of the track, when the Ring taxi comes flying in you see a quick flash of orange which is the corvette being spun. Then there is the orange VX220 which is smashed close to the M3 (E92) and the 911. Oh and you see after the ring taxi has crashed an E36 M3 rolling over to the right hand side of the track as if it has been hit by something.-Pesty, well he should have been expecting something and taken it easy on a corner which is known for being bad.
Edited by LukeSi on Tuesday 4th October 22:53
CraigyMc said:
There's a fking metric fkload of stting swearing.
After all the ooh la la's one of them says. king metric fkload of stting swearing."go past, go past. They're all arriving too fast and can't brake in time.". Then they start to move again, the Vette gets hit and he says. "f-ing hell!". Etc etc "that's really serious."
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