RE: Driven: Vauxhall Corsa VXR Nurburgring
Discussion
I don't think you can say torque or power are more important that the other. It's a tricky subject to properly understand (and I'm not saying i do). Torque gives the impression of being faster, hence why so many believe modern turbo diesels are the fastest things ever created. F1 cars have relatively small torque outputs but are monumentally fast. When capacity is restricted the only way to make a vehicle go faster is to increase the revolutions of the crank, or add some fi. The more revolutions the more power strokes and air entering the engine hence more power. Hi torque and a flat torque curve makes a car more effortless to go fast due to the availabilty of power (area under the graph remember) cars that rely on high revolutions need to be worked harder- which you don't do all the time which can give the impression of the vehicle not being as quick. I understand that there are other factors such as weight and drag.
I was at a track day at Snetterton once in my old Clio 197. There was also a Vauxhall Corsa VXR there driven by a lad a little bit younger than me with his dad. The 197 seemed to go faster, stop quicker and handle better. So much so that the they asked me if my car was standard because they couldn't keep with it.
I could pretend that's because I'm a driving god, but I think more likely that the Clio is just the better engineered package. I'd never have bought a VXR on image alone before that day (bearing in mind I was called a chav all the time in the Clio) and I wouldn't consider one on any grounds since.
I could pretend that's because I'm a driving god, but I think more likely that the Clio is just the better engineered package. I'd never have bought a VXR on image alone before that day (bearing in mind I was called a chav all the time in the Clio) and I wouldn't consider one on any grounds since.
I've got the slightly more sober looking Sri turbo Corsa d.7.5ish to 60, maps quite well and but probably doesn't quite have the spec, or finesse round the bends of the nurbugring. Reasonable examples from 5k; certainly represents good value for money on the used market. Feels quicker than the figured suggest, just don't buy one if you suffer from back pain!
The Corsa Nurburgring has some quite expensive parts fitted, forged wheels for instance. Dunno whether the Clio Cup has those as well, but the suspension, wheels and brakes of the Corsa are quality. Seats also. There is little doubt that the Corsa suffers from the typical Corsa driver image. Forget these preconceptions and the car is great fun to drive.
Edited for typo.
Edited for typo.
In the absence of the need for Homologation specials I think Vauxhall are to be applauded for doing this.
Bespoke Bilstein monotube suspension, upgraded Brembo brakes and a full on motorsport Drexler diff, a lot of more powerful or more desirable metal will have trouble keeping up with one of these on a back road, for me that is the essence of what a hot hatch should be doing?
As said the dealers who like to deal have been knocking these out for £17500 when they were first announced, they sold the first years allocation pretty quickly (250 this year and 250 for next year)
I suppose it's whether you are happy to give something a try and see for yourself or whether you just watch Top Gear and absorb whatever they tell you...
"It's a vauxhall"
"But it's French"
"All Audi drivers are co..s"
Bespoke Bilstein monotube suspension, upgraded Brembo brakes and a full on motorsport Drexler diff, a lot of more powerful or more desirable metal will have trouble keeping up with one of these on a back road, for me that is the essence of what a hot hatch should be doing?
As said the dealers who like to deal have been knocking these out for £17500 when they were first announced, they sold the first years allocation pretty quickly (250 this year and 250 for next year)
I suppose it's whether you are happy to give something a try and see for yourself or whether you just watch Top Gear and absorb whatever they tell you...
"It's a vauxhall"
"But it's French"
"All Audi drivers are co..s"
XitUp said:
What would you like me to explain about them?
No, if they have less power and all else is equal, they will not be quicker, even with more torque. Sorry.
Maybe, the jerk from a modern diesel makes it feel quicker than it is.
I'd say the whole "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" fib is the wrong way round.
For the same engine torque, you can have a different set of gear ratios /final drive, which gives you different torque at the wheels. This is the torque that governs how quick you can accelerate (when not traction limited). Which is how you can make a revvy engine with not much engine torque match against a slow lazy engine with loads of torque (e.g. a diesel).No, if they have less power and all else is equal, they will not be quicker, even with more torque. Sorry.
Maybe, the jerk from a modern diesel makes it feel quicker than it is.
I'd say the whole "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" fib is the wrong way round.
Back to the Corsa - for me the think that sticks out is the smattering of gloss black plastic in the cabin, it doesn't work - especially with the steering wheel, it really looks like the cheap attempt to tart up a cheap interior that it is. And too much money, really, for a not very practical supermini with an image problem.
I have to laugh at the Clio fans calling the VXR "chavy" (it is btw) but pot kettle black comes to mind.
The older Clios are now attainable by younger boy racerish types. In turn this gives off the wrong image. Sadly the VXR has this image/stigma attached from release and imo it's justified only because it's aimed at that young market.
Anyway wouldn't be my money.
The older Clios are now attainable by younger boy racerish types. In turn this gives off the wrong image. Sadly the VXR has this image/stigma attached from release and imo it's justified only because it's aimed at that young market.
Anyway wouldn't be my money.
as an owner of an Arden Blue Corsa VXR Nurby for the missus daily driver, its really nice and very useable day to day
a good friend of mine has a clio 200 cup as his daily driver and ive been to and from meetings with him in it, and its a little uncouth and harsh to be honest, it may be quicker but I honestly couldnt live with its 'raw'-ness day to day
i know some argue its very pricey for what it is, but thats the folk who only see it as a corsa and nothing more... although i do get sick of all the pretenders in their 1.2 and 1.4 bodykit'd sxi's that dealers seem to be pushing out for peanuts these days
a good friend of mine has a clio 200 cup as his daily driver and ive been to and from meetings with him in it, and its a little uncouth and harsh to be honest, it may be quicker but I honestly couldnt live with its 'raw'-ness day to day
i know some argue its very pricey for what it is, but thats the folk who only see it as a corsa and nothing more... although i do get sick of all the pretenders in their 1.2 and 1.4 bodykit'd sxi's that dealers seem to be pushing out for peanuts these days
dele said:
Please tell me your joking?
Ive seen more poorly driven barried up 182s, 172s and RS Meganes than i have had hot dinners
What part of Hertfordshire is that? I haven't seen them?Article said:
Vauxhall, it's probably fair to say, has a bit of an image problem when it comes to hot hatches. However unfair it may be to the Luton Griffin, which has produced its fair share of decent fast hatches over the years, there is a general perception that hot Vauxhalls are driven by 'the wrong sort'.
Thus, while Renault basks in the glow of being perceived as a genuine 'enthusiast's brand', Vauxhall is illuminated by the sodium glare of the Maccy-Dee car park.
Come to Hertfordshire/Essex thenThus, while Renault basks in the glow of being perceived as a genuine 'enthusiast's brand', Vauxhall is illuminated by the sodium glare of the Maccy-Dee car park.
Ive seen more poorly driven barried up 182s, 172s and RS Meganes than i have had hot dinners
RenesisEvo said:
XitUp said:
What would you like me to explain about them?
No, if they have less power and all else is equal, they will not be quicker, even with more torque. Sorry.
Maybe, the jerk from a modern diesel makes it feel quicker than it is.
I'd say the whole "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" fib is the wrong way round.
For the same engine torque, you can have a different set of gear ratios /final drive, which gives you different torque at the wheels. This is the torque that governs how quick you can accelerate (when not traction limited). Which is how you can make a revvy engine with not much engine torque match against a slow lazy engine with loads of torque (e.g. a diesel).No, if they have less power and all else is equal, they will not be quicker, even with more torque. Sorry.
Maybe, the jerk from a modern diesel makes it feel quicker than it is.
I'd say the whole "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" fib is the wrong way round.
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