Dear Chris Harris - Does it need to drift?
Discussion
deviant said:
Drifting in the modern definition is entirely stupid on public roads.
I totally agree, as I said in the first post I made...SlipStream77 said:
Obviously one should not be drifting on the road
I was simply trying to define the terms, 'drifting' has become the modern term for extreme power sliding. I still prefer the original terms where a drift was just short for four wheel drift.IMO powersliding / four wheel drifting should both be confined to the track, so risks can be minimised.
This thread is now linked from an Autoblog.com article about AutoCar's new 'Will it drift?' online video feature...
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/23/mugen-ariel-ato...
ETA... Have just watched the two AutoCar videos in the Autoblog article... What a waste of time... I like to see a car being thrown sideways but these videos are just dire. I'll save you the hassle of watching it - some goon attempts to get car sideways in a carpark... the end.
Autoblog said:
Flip through the pages of CAR, EVO or Top Gear, and it's obvious the British motoring press has an unhealthy obsession with getting sideways. Not that we can blame them. We enjoy a healthy dab of oppo as much as the next guy, but when the Pistonheads hive-mind starts crying foul about opposite lock shenanigans, you know it's getting out of hand.
It seems to me that they haven't read the thread that well as it appears the 'Hive-mind' seem to be all for a dap of oppo.http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/23/mugen-ariel-ato...
ETA... Have just watched the two AutoCar videos in the Autoblog article... What a waste of time... I like to see a car being thrown sideways but these videos are just dire. I'll save you the hassle of watching it - some goon attempts to get car sideways in a carpark... the end.
Edited by Jame5 on Tuesday 24th January 09:15
It just shows a need for a definition between the 2.
Can we say drifting is pre-apex 4 wheel slide
and
power sliding is post apex 2 or 4 wheel slide?
The first requires upsetting the balance of the car and committal before the corner, all in. More than a dab of oppo.
The latter requires you to reach your apex before making the decision whether it's on or off. A dab off oppo.
Make sense?
Can we say drifting is pre-apex 4 wheel slide
and
power sliding is post apex 2 or 4 wheel slide?
The first requires upsetting the balance of the car and committal before the corner, all in. More than a dab of oppo.
The latter requires you to reach your apex before making the decision whether it's on or off. A dab off oppo.
Make sense?
It demonstrates the potential for car control - hopefully it's not so much 'will it drift?' as 'can a drift be controlled and corrected?'
If you're driving a powerful rear-drive car and the back end steps out mid-corner, such things are important. Power is nothing without control.
However, provoking a great big powerslide makes no sense outside of a D1 Grand Prix or a rally.
If you're driving a powerful rear-drive car and the back end steps out mid-corner, such things are important. Power is nothing without control.
However, provoking a great big powerslide makes no sense outside of a D1 Grand Prix or a rally.
OlberJ said:
It just shows a need for a definition between the 2.
Can we say drifting is pre-apex 4 wheel slide
and
power sliding is post apex 2 or 4 wheel slide?
The first requires upsetting the balance of the car and committal before the corner, all in. More than a dab of oppo.
The latter requires you to reach your apex before making the decision whether it's on or off. A dab off oppo.
Make sense?
I go with Slipstream77's definition, which is textbook. "Drifting" in its modern term (D1, Top Gear track reviews etc) is simply controlled prolonged power oversteer, which is a two wheel slide, not a four wheel slide. A four wheel slide is what racing drivers do; in a modern track car, peak slip angles are so small you can't really see it, but in the 1960s it was very noticeable, especially in lower grip car, such as the Lotus Cortina in the picture SS77 referenced.Can we say drifting is pre-apex 4 wheel slide
and
power sliding is post apex 2 or 4 wheel slide?
The first requires upsetting the balance of the car and committal before the corner, all in. More than a dab of oppo.
The latter requires you to reach your apex before making the decision whether it's on or off. A dab off oppo.
Make sense?
Going back to the other discussion, if you have a good sense of car control then I don't see what's wrong with utilising peak slip or the odd cheeky oversteer moment if the road is completely clear and you know what you're doing. Personally, despite not being a particularly fantastic driver in 11 years of racing and lots of track days I've only ever spun or left the track a handful of times going absolutely nuts trying to beat a lap record or in a close battle for position - fast driving on its own shouldn't be dangerous, and conservatively on the road is absolutely not dangerous, providing your observation is top notch and you have a sensible attitude. That's not really what we're discussing here though. Prolonged oversteer at high slip angles though is something I would never do or condone; it's stupid on the public road in my honest opinion. I also find it boring to watch on television; my best television car test memories are watching people like Plato, Needell, and in particular Tim Harvey's review of the E36 M3 years ago - all of whom have driven properly quickly and I've been in awe at what they and the cars do. To me, watching proper quick driving is like watching Rafal Nadal play tennis - it's a joy to watch. Watching 'drifting' to me is like watching someone bounce a ball on a tennis racket or doing simple tricks - fun at first but it quickly gets boring. That also sums up my personal experience of drifting as well - I've spent eleven years obsessed with motor racing and loving driving on the limit, but after a total of about two hours playing with drifting cars I'm bored of it already.
So to go back to the OP's question, drifting bores me and it's one of the reasons I don't watch Top Gear anymore. Is it relevant? Yes, I think as part of a review it's nice to know how friendly a car is on the limit, but I think it has limited value, both for reviewing a car and, for me anyway, for entertainment purposes as well.
Rawwr said:
redgriff500 said:
Depends how good you are though.
I still remember a mate of mine aged 18 drifting his standard 1.3 Mk2 Escort sideways down a straight dual carriageway.
That's one of two things:I still remember a mate of mine aged 18 drifting his standard 1.3 Mk2 Escort sideways down a straight dual carriageway.
- retarded on a himalayan scale
- a big, fat lie
18yr olds driving cars with their nates onboard...Of course it's the first one.
If I was going to lie I'd have said I did it.
He'd hit 70ish and flick it sideways and hold it then catch it and do it the other way.
An impressive feat with (IIRC) 60bhp and 165 tyres.
TBF we all did plenty of stupid things - quite surprising we are all still alive.
redgriff500 said:
Rawwr said:
redgriff500 said:
Depends how good you are though.
I still remember a mate of mine aged 18 drifting his standard 1.3 Mk2 Escort sideways down a straight dual carriageway.
That's one of two things:I still remember a mate of mine aged 18 drifting his standard 1.3 Mk2 Escort sideways down a straight dual carriageway.
- retarded on a himalayan scale
- a big, fat lie
18yr olds driving cars with their nates onboard...Of course it's the first one.
If I was going to lie I'd have said I did it.
He'd hit 70ish and flick it sideways and hold it then catch it and do it the other way.
An impressive feat with (IIRC) 60bhp and 165 tyres.
TBF we all did plenty of stupid things - quite surprising we are all still alive.
I like cars because THEY'RE FUN!!!
I yearned for a rwd car for years and when I finally got one it was better and more fun than I could ever imagine!.
Yes, I drifted on public roads all over the place, every time it rained, on purpose?! just imagine the horror when nobody died!.
A little common sense goes a long way.
mmm-five said:
I don't do it on the road—well, maybe the odd tail out action at the odd deserted hairpin with plenty of visibility—but really liked getting the e34 M5's tail out on track—especially on winter airfield days where the Caterwestical brigade have cried off due to it being wet/cold/icy.
Most of the track days I've been on (i.e. in excess of 100) have been fine with drifting around corners, as long as you keep it under control. Spin out too often and you'll get a warning, continue spinning out and you'll be sent home.
Now those were the days! Seeing that caused me to dig out the old Jimbocam footage of Colin from that same day. We are all children.Most of the track days I've been on (i.e. in excess of 100) have been fine with drifting around corners, as long as you keep it under control. Spin out too often and you'll get a warning, continue spinning out and you'll be sent home.
http://youtu.be/cTYgtP6oZrg
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