"Ur-quattro": why has it changed its meaning?
Discussion
Back in the 1980s "Ur-quattro" was a term that was adopted by German enthusiasts to describe the original WR (2144cc) quattro models only ("ur" loosely means "old/original"), following the arrival of the updated 2226cc MB (10v) and later RR (20v) versions. These first generation WR cars had different headlights, alloys and instrumentation and were initially LHD only (1980 - 1982). I lived in Germany towards the latter part of the quattro's production life and we only used the term "Ur-quattro" in reference to those early WR versions, since the later models were still in production.
However, the term "Ur-quattro" now seems to be used in the UK as a name for all 3 generations of the Audi quattro models. I therefore put it to the PH jury that the more numerous MB and RR models are not "Ur-quattros" at all!
However, the term "Ur-quattro" now seems to be used in the UK as a name for all 3 generations of the Audi quattro models. I therefore put it to the PH jury that the more numerous MB and RR models are not "Ur-quattros" at all!
Nah, this is a fairly general question, and I've noticed the same thing.
The term comes from the German "ursprünglich", meaning primary or original, and is abbreviated to just a prefix of "ur-" by Germans and English alike. Really, it's a general term one could use to denote the first or original edition of anything - I guess it's just that as time has passed, all of those editions of quattros have become known collectively as "the original".
The term comes from the German "ursprünglich", meaning primary or original, and is abbreviated to just a prefix of "ur-" by Germans and English alike. Really, it's a general term one could use to denote the first or original edition of anything - I guess it's just that as time has passed, all of those editions of quattros have become known collectively as "the original".
McSam said:
Nah, this is a fairly general question, and I've noticed the same thing.
The term comes from the German "ursprünglich", meaning primary or original, and is abbreviated to just a prefix of "ur-" by Germans and English alike. Really, it's a general term one could use to denote the first or original edition of anything - I guess it's just that as time has passed, all of those editions of quattros have become known collectively as "the original".
So you could have a ur-haldex then The term comes from the German "ursprünglich", meaning primary or original, and is abbreviated to just a prefix of "ur-" by Germans and English alike. Really, it's a general term one could use to denote the first or original edition of anything - I guess it's just that as time has passed, all of those editions of quattros have become known collectively as "the original".
I can see where you're coming from. But there has only ever been one model called an Audi quattro, so the "Ur-" bit differentiates those early original models from the later ones. The second and third generations cannot therefore be "Ur-".
If Audi had bought out a successor say 15 years later and called it an Audi quattro, then I could see why some people would stick the "Ur-" moniker onto any of those 3 variants, but as far as I know Audi has yet to launch such a model.
NB: an Audi quattro shouldn't be confused with any other of their mainstream 4WD models, because they always had different names eg. Coupe quattro, 80 quattro, S2 quattro, A8 quattro etc...
If Audi had bought out a successor say 15 years later and called it an Audi quattro, then I could see why some people would stick the "Ur-" moniker onto any of those 3 variants, but as far as I know Audi has yet to launch such a model.
NB: an Audi quattro shouldn't be confused with any other of their mainstream 4WD models, because they always had different names eg. Coupe quattro, 80 quattro, S2 quattro, A8 quattro etc...
LotusOmega375D said:
I can see where you're coming from. But there has only ever been one model called an Audi quattro, so the "Ur-" bit differentiates those early original models from the later ones. The second and third generations cannot therefore be "Ur-".
If Audi had bought out a successor say 15 years later and called it an Audi quattro, then I could see why some people would stick the "Ur-" moniker onto any of those 3 variants, but as far as I know Audi has yet to launch such a model.
NB: an Audi quattro shouldn't be confused with any other of their mainstream 4WD models, because they always had different names eg. Coupe quattro, 80 quattro, S2 quattro, A8 quattro etc...
It has gone a little further, I'm afraid. Ur has been adopted to include all the 5 pot engined Audis as a way of distinction. The early (C4) S6 with the 20v Turbo is often known as a urS6, as is the first S4 (based on the Audi 100, so pretty much identical to the S6) known as the urS4.If Audi had bought out a successor say 15 years later and called it an Audi quattro, then I could see why some people would stick the "Ur-" moniker onto any of those 3 variants, but as far as I know Audi has yet to launch such a model.
NB: an Audi quattro shouldn't be confused with any other of their mainstream 4WD models, because they always had different names eg. Coupe quattro, 80 quattro, S2 quattro, A8 quattro etc...
It helps distinguish them from the later lesser engined variants.
ETA - I've never heard it used to describe the S2, but there is nothing to confuse that one with.
Edited by Dimski on Monday 30th January 17:54
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