RE: Tell me I'm wrong: BMW M5

RE: Tell me I'm wrong: BMW M5

Author
Discussion

RoverP6B

4,338 posts

127 months

Wednesday 11th January 2017
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I could spend a very long time telling you why the F10's substance is substantially lacking compared to its predecessors too...

Wills2

22,612 posts

174 months

Wednesday 11th January 2017
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RoverP6B said:
I could spend a very long time telling you why the F10's substance is substantially lacking compared to its predecessors too...
Please don't, we get enough of your ill informed drivel as it is....



W8PMC

3,345 posts

237 months

Wednesday 11th January 2017
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RoverP6B said:
I could spend a very long time telling you why the F10's substance is substantially lacking compared to its predecessors too...
As someone who's run 2 F10 M5's for approaching 42 months, i'm dying to hear your opinion & hoping it's based on fact as in you do/have owned one??

W8PMC

3,345 posts

237 months

Wednesday 11th January 2017
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RoverP6B said:
I loved the E34 and E39 the moment I saw them. Didn't like the E60 base models in SE trim, but a 530i M-sport or an M5 was always a striking looking car. The F10 has always and will always look like an overstyled yet styleless heap of crap.
To dig further i also owned an E60 M5 & the F10 M5 runs rings round the E60 in every way, shape & formsmile

Joscal

2,070 posts

199 months

Wednesday 11th January 2017
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Me too and the E39 and I agree. We must be fanboys..

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 11th January 2017
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Joscal said:
Me too and the E39 and I agree. We must be fanboys..
3 fanboys here now....

beer


Mr Leigh

13 posts

206 months

Wednesday 11th January 2017
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I remember walking away from the Nissan GTR drivers day at Silverstone 8 years ago and getting my 3k deposit back. I don't think this is a new phenomenon, perhaps just new for the M5.

I would rather have a 4 door M2 if there were such a car. RS3 saloon 4 Door?

I was told cars keep getting bigger due to the US market? Not sure if there is any truth in that?

Patrick Bateman

12,126 posts

173 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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W8PMC said:
To dig further i also owned an E60 M5 & the F10 M5 runs rings round the E60 in every way, shape & formsmile
To be fair, he's talking about aesthetics.


RoverP6B

4,338 posts

127 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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I am not comparing M5s, as I have no experience of them - I'm talking about the humbler cars I have driven, but to a significant extent my criticisms of the F10 will apply to all examples of that family, regardless of the engine. I spent a month in a diesel F11 and was so glad to get my E39 Touring back afterwards.

Am I an E39 fanboy? Maybe - but my PH-recommended BMW independent engineer (who has raced many BMWs and supplied them for a certain BBC motoring programme) opines that the E39 is the finest mass-production car BMW has ever made, and I am not inclined to disagree, despite one of mine having been a moneypit. There are a few tiny niggly little things wrong with the design, but nothing that makes them a pain to live with on a daily basis, nor that detracts from the fundamental beauty of its design. By the end of my month in that F11, if it had been my car rather than the insurer's, I'd probably have attacked it with axes and hammers and set it on fire, I so vehemently hated it. The end result would also have been an aesthetic improvement.

The entire BMW range now is so wilfully hideous that it makes me angry every time I see one. How could such a fine, illustrious firm get it so horribly wrong?! It's easy to take a pop at the 2-series Active Tourer, but honestly, the 2-series 2-doors are equally vile to look at, and so is the M4... what an overstyled mess.

Then the marketing bods decided, since BMW no longer made anything which could legitimately claim to be an Ultimate Driving Machine, to adopt slogans like Strength Through Joy and Joy Sets You Free. Yes, BMW, I know you powered the Nazi war machine, that oh-so-familiar roundel logo is on the engine nacelles of the RAF Museum's Junkers Ju-88, but you don't have to make your nostalgia for imperialistic fascism quite so obvious...

E65Ross

34,844 posts

211 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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RoverP6B said:
I am not comparing M5s, as I have no experience of them - I'm talking about the humbler cars I have driven, but to a significant extent my criticisms of the F10 will apply to all examples of that family, regardless of the engine. I spent a month in a diesel F11 and was so glad to get my E39 Touring back afterwards.
So you got a bottom of the range car and didn't like it as much as your own 3.5 litre petrol V8? And based on that, you draw the conclusion the M5 must be the same (in terms of the conclusion you'd come to)

RoverP6B said:
The entire BMW range now is so wilfully hideous that it makes me angry every time I see one.
It makes you angry? Jeez, chill!

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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RoverP6B said:
I am not comparing M5s, as I have no experience of them - I'm talking about the humbler cars I have driven, but to a significant extent my criticisms of the F10 will apply to all examples of that family, regardless of the engine. I spent a month in a diesel F11 and was so glad to get my E39 Touring back afterwards.

Am I an E39 fanboy? Maybe - but my PH-recommended BMW independent engineer (who has raced many BMWs and supplied them for a certain BBC motoring programme) opines that the E39 is the finest mass-production car BMW has ever made, and I am not inclined to disagree, despite one of mine having been a moneypit. There are a few tiny niggly little things wrong with the design, but nothing that makes them a pain to live with on a daily basis, nor that detracts from the fundamental beauty of its design. By the end of my month in that F11, if it had been my car rather than the insurer's, I'd probably have attacked it with axes and hammers and set it on fire, I so vehemently hated it. The end result would also have been an aesthetic improvement.

The entire BMW range now is so wilfully hideous that it makes me angry every time I see one. How could such a fine, illustrious firm get it so horribly wrong?! It's easy to take a pop at the 2-series Active Tourer, but honestly, the 2-series 2-doors are equally vile to look at, and so is the M4... what an overstyled mess.

Then the marketing bods decided, since BMW no longer made anything which could legitimately claim to be an Ultimate Driving Machine, to adopt slogans like Strength Through Joy and Joy Sets You Free. Yes, BMW, I know you powered the Nazi war machine, that oh-so-familiar roundel logo is on the engine nacelles of the RAF Museum's Junkers Ju-88, but you don't have to make your nostalgia for imperialistic fascism quite so obvious...
I get the sense you are over thinking this .......

RoverP6B

4,338 posts

127 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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I didn't have the V8 then, it didn't arrive until 3 and a half years later. I did (and still do) have a 520i (M54B22) Touring. The F11 was a temporary replacement for an E46 318i ("Gutless Wonder"/"The Moneypit") Touring, which, apart from its nice looks and handling, had absolutely nothing to recommend it whatsoever. I was quite glad, in a way, that it was written off (hit from behind while static at a junction). Also had a week in a poverty spec E90 320d - in some ways more enjoyable than the F11 for its greater simplicity. The joy of a simple lever handbrake! Still ruined by that bloody awful tractor engine. An E90 330i is probably a rather lovelier thing.

Cheburator mk2

2,966 posts

198 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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W8PMC said:
To dig further i also owned an E60 M5 & the F10 M5 runs rings round the E60 in every way, shape & formsmile
Maybe, except the V10 is a masterpiece... The S63 is just... hmm... a development of a good V8 engine... Yes, I know the F10 is a lot quicker, has bigger range, has a much better interior, better brakes, better gearbox etc. It is called progress... But it will never be a classic and never considered an all time great. Despite its flaws, and there are many, the E60/61 has THAT Engine... Probably the best V10 ever produced (Carrera GT excepted) and sometimes you cannot put value on this...

AreOut

3,658 posts

160 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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Put an intercooled ESS supercharger in E60(roughly 8 thousand pounds) and call it a day. You've got the sound and feeling of a V10 with a lot of torque.

RoverP6B

4,338 posts

127 months

Friday 13th January 2017
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Now, rather than comparing the F10 M5 to its immediate predecessor, how does it stand up to the E39 in pure exotic/classic specialness? The E39 M5 was put together rather hastily and shares most of its mechanical architecture with the 'ordinary' 540i... but does a unique bore/stroke giving greater power, plus the M bodykit, endow it with the level of separation from a 540i the F10 lacks from a 550i (DCT notwithstanding)?

EazyDuz

2,013 posts

107 months

Friday 13th January 2017
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terribad cars

E65Ross

34,844 posts

211 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
RoverP6B said:
Now, rather than comparing the F10 M5 to its immediate predecessor, how does it stand up to the E39 in pure exotic/classic specialness? The E39 M5 was put together rather hastily and shares most of its mechanical architecture with the 'ordinary' 540i... but does a unique bore/stroke giving greater power, plus the M bodykit, endow it with the level of separation from a 540i the F10 lacks from a 550i (DCT notwithstanding)?
You're asking whether "a unique bore/stroke giving greater power, plus the M bodykit, endow it with the level of separation from a 540i the F10 lacks from a 550i".....the F10 M5 is every bit as different, in reality, from an F10 550i than an E39 M5 from a 540i.

W8PMC

3,345 posts

237 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
Cheburator mk2 said:
Maybe, except the V10 is a masterpiece... The S63 is just... hmm... a development of a good V8 engine... Yes, I know the F10 is a lot quicker, has bigger range, has a much better interior, better brakes, better gearbox etc. It is called progress... But it will never be a classic and never considered an all time great. Despite its flaws, and there are many, the E60/61 has THAT Engine... Probably the best V10 ever produced (Carrera GT excepted) and sometimes you cannot put value on this...
I totally agree about the engine & in fact that engine won Engine of the year for i think 3-4 years in succession, however a great engine doesn't make a great car as it was mated to a marmite (& fragile) gearbox & could only be enjoyed when ringing it's neck which is somewhat difficult in Lancashire between the months of October & March. Yes it had some great innovation such as the HUD & adaptive seats etc. & i did enjoy mine but it only came on song when pushing on & was woeful doing anything less so hardly a great all-rounder.

Die hards of course would agree the V10 is better than the current blown V8, but in the real world where most of us live the current offering is in almost every way the better car, albeit the engine doesn't have that V10 howl, but does pull harder from every point in the rev range, far better range & far more usable mated to the excellent M-DCT in ALL driving conditions. I'll quite happily sacrifice the V10 howl for an all together more accomplished vehicle & yes that's how progress works.

Judging by the E60 M5 used prices, i don't see it being viewed as a classic anytime soon, however fully agree it has a slightly better chance than the F10.

Fezzaman

552 posts

192 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
Cheburator mk2 said:
Maybe, except the V10 is a masterpiece... The S63 is just... hmm... a development of a good V8 engine... Yes, I know the F10 is a lot quicker, has bigger range, has a much better interior, better brakes, better gearbox etc. It is called progress... But it will never be a classic and never considered an all time great. Despite its flaws, and there are many, the E60/61 has THAT Engine... Probably the best V10 ever produced (Carrera GT and LF-A excepted) and sometimes you cannot put value on this...
EFA biglaugh

W8PMC

3,345 posts

237 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
RoverP6B said:
Now, rather than comparing the F10 M5 to its immediate predecessor, how does it stand up to the E39 in pure exotic/classic specialness? The E39 M5 was put together rather hastily and shares most of its mechanical architecture with the 'ordinary' 540i... but does a unique bore/stroke giving greater power, plus the M bodykit, endow it with the level of separation from a 540i the F10 lacks from a 550i (DCT notwithstanding)?
As above, yes it does.

Whilst i accept than all BMW M's blend in with their respective range (as do AMG's & Audi RS's) & that it would be difficult to say the F10 has the same 'Classic' appeal of the E39 given it's what 15-17yrs newer, other than aspects of the interior technology, a couple of body panels & the overall shape, the F10 M5 shares very little with other F10's. Is it however the best M5 ever built, personally i think yes but i've only had the E60 & F10 so can't comment on the older variants, but i think it's looks will be totally subjective & whilst i think the F10 looks far better than the E60 or E39, i can appreciate others won't, but then i'm still more into Modern design rather than Classic.