RE: Driven: BMW M550d xDrive
Discussion
E38Ross said:
But then you're saying why make an m5 when a 520d is just as good on the motorway
I'm sure you've never gone above 70
8 forward gears is plenty and better than 7,so long as it's not shifting too often perceptibly. If it's not perceptible it does matter, as it offers better performance and economy.
That's the thing though - the article said the amount of gears WAS getting in the way of enjoyable progress. Fast gear changes, but just so many of them that it did interrupt the fun. Don't get me wrong: it's undoubtedly faster and more efficient, but (according to Harris anyway) somewhat annoying.I'm sure you've never gone above 70
8 forward gears is plenty and better than 7,so long as it's not shifting too often perceptibly. If it's not perceptible it does matter, as it offers better performance and economy.
lap_time said:
E38Ross said:
But then you're saying why make an m5 when a 520d is just as good on the motorway
I'm sure you've never gone above 70
8 forward gears is plenty and better than 7,so long as it's not shifting too often perceptibly. If it's not perceptible it does matter, as it offers better performance and economy.
That's the thing though - the article said the amount of gears WAS getting in the way of enjoyable progress. Fast gear changes, but just so many of them that it did interrupt the fun. Don't get me wrong: it's undoubtedly faster and more efficient, but (according to Harris anyway) somewhat annoying.I'm sure you've never gone above 70
8 forward gears is plenty and better than 7,so long as it's not shifting too often perceptibly. If it's not perceptible it does matter, as it offers better performance and economy.
it's actually no more forward gears than you'd use normally in a fun drive anyway, since 7th and 8th are both gears which will not be reached if going flat out (i.e. top speed usually met in 6th, 7th at most) so don't see the problem, especially if used in manual mode
E38Ross said:
first bit of criticism i've heard of the 8 speed box. ever.
it's actually no more forward gears than you'd use normally in a fun drive anyway, since 7th and 8th are both gears which will not be reached if going flat out (i.e. top speed usually met in 6th, 7th at most) so don't see the problem, especially if used in manual mode
Yes but why do you need 8 gears? I understand on a bike where the motive power is your legs and how having more gears is a big help but this is a car with a very modern tri turbo engine. Surely one of the huge advantages of a modern turbo engine is the huge spread of torque they produce over a very broad rev range which makes a high number of gears totally irrelevant? To me it smacks of marketing one-upmanship. Over-complication for it's own sake and just more bits to go wrong, further down the line.it's actually no more forward gears than you'd use normally in a fun drive anyway, since 7th and 8th are both gears which will not be reached if going flat out (i.e. top speed usually met in 6th, 7th at most) so don't see the problem, especially if used in manual mode
Is it the same (or closely related) to the 8 speed ZF unit in the Mercs and Jags?
I've test driven both and found them excellent though I see the point with regards to changing down. Coming from a 6 speed manual diesel where you just put your foot down and enjoy the uninterrupted acceleration until you reach whatever speed, I found myself pushing the autobox across into manual before putting foot down just so it wouldn't change down. Sort of defeats the object so I'm sure if I had one I'd stop doing that and get used to the downchanges and likely better acceleration.
I've test driven both and found them excellent though I see the point with regards to changing down. Coming from a 6 speed manual diesel where you just put your foot down and enjoy the uninterrupted acceleration until you reach whatever speed, I found myself pushing the autobox across into manual before putting foot down just so it wouldn't change down. Sort of defeats the object so I'm sure if I had one I'd stop doing that and get used to the downchanges and likely better acceleration.
Guvernator said:
E38Ross said:
first bit of criticism i've heard of the 8 speed box. ever.
it's actually no more forward gears than you'd use normally in a fun drive anyway, since 7th and 8th are both gears which will not be reached if going flat out (i.e. top speed usually met in 6th, 7th at most) so don't see the problem, especially if used in manual mode
Yes but why do you need 8 gears? I understand on a bike where the motive power is your legs and how having more gears is a big help but this is a car with a very modern tri turbo engine. Surely one of the huge advantages of a modern turbo engine is the huge spread of torque they produce over a very broad rev range which makes a high number of gears totally irrelevant? To me it smacks of marketing one-upmanship. Over-complication for it's own sake and just more bits to go wrong, further down the line.it's actually no more forward gears than you'd use normally in a fun drive anyway, since 7th and 8th are both gears which will not be reached if going flat out (i.e. top speed usually met in 6th, 7th at most) so don't see the problem, especially if used in manual mode
Pumpsmynads said:
Is it the same (or closely related) to the 8 speed ZF unit in the Mercs and Jags?
I believe all the F10/11 autos are the ZF 8 speed box, The jury is out for me I find it quite frustrating that it still has the same issues as the 6 speed tiptronic in my Allroad and the 5 speed auto I had in the SL, in low speed up hill corners they always put themselves in the wrong gear and you have that silly pause whilst the computer works out whats going on, and drops a cog or two.
Also when approaching a roundabout off the throttle using light braking you see a gap release the brake and transfer to the throttle and again the box is lost in no man's land leaving you hanging halfway across the road.
Could just be me...
Never mind the M550d, people wanting one of these should just buy the Alpina D5 that Sutcliffe tested in last weeks Autocar. he rated it over the M5 as a daily car, something ol' Chris Harris would never do! Also, Autocar averaged 39 MPG in the diesel and just 18 in the M5, so if Chris Harris thinks an M5 would ever do mid 20s MPG, he is kidding himself. All these new petrol turbos have totally false MPG claims. THe Audi S4 run by EVO only averaged 23 MPG against an advertised 29.7 over the year they had it.
Hardly any better than the V8 S5 they also ran...!!
Chicane-UK said:
The Article said:
The only clue you are driving something very special is in the rather clumsy, hi-fi augmented intake noise (in Sport Plus mode) that sometimes sounds like a Corrado VR6 that's dropped a cylinder.
So like a Golf V5? That is pretty much a VR6 with a cylinder lopped off! AlpinaB5s said:
quote "Why a car with such immense core strength should need eight forward gears is anyone's guess."
Well, the biggest criticism of autoboxes in the past has been the fact they are often in the wrong gear.
Having more gears (in between the old gears) ensures a smoother and more efficent journey. I suspect that these new 8 speed ZF auto boxes are as close to 6 speed manuals with respect to efficiency.
Can't wait until the crank the forward gear count up to 11!
6 speed manual is only as efficent as the person driving it! People like BMW claim that the auto is better on fuel than the auto thanks to dual clutch technology. Well, the biggest criticism of autoboxes in the past has been the fact they are often in the wrong gear.
Having more gears (in between the old gears) ensures a smoother and more efficent journey. I suspect that these new 8 speed ZF auto boxes are as close to 6 speed manuals with respect to efficiency.
Can't wait until the crank the forward gear count up to 11!
I think ZF have launched an 9 speed box. Didn't know there was a 10sp out there .
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